So I drove an electric car

[R Chin]

So I put a deposit on the BZ and looks like within an hour of listing my Highlander it may very well be sold. But now I have to scramble. Checking with my insurance agent to make sure no horrible surprises and if not then I have to scramble and get that 240v line installed into my garage. I do have a 30amp 110V out there but, I don't think it would be sufficient for our needs

I get by with 240v 16a
Overnight charging gives much more flexibility

120v charging on Tesla only gets 70% efficiency for some reason
240v is always around 95%

Also try to keep charge between 20% and 80% for battery cycle longevity - I actually run mine at 70% unless needed for a trip

 

[LMichaels]

Yeah, I'm going to run 40amp 240 out there using GFI breaker pair as well. My SIL uses that with his Y. He said it works fine

 

[Chris Allingham]

I drove a lot of Prius' and honestly hated very one of them. Because they were just plain "weird". They felt weird, looked weird, drove even weirder. Absolutely nothing about them tripped my trigger in any way.

I respect your opinion. We've had the complete opposite experience, so much so that we bought two, one in 2004 (Gen 2) and one in 2012 (Gen 3).

Looks are subjective, but heck, it's no Pontiac Aztek! And I really like the latest styling. Back in 2004, it was unusual to have a push-button start button, a dash-mounted shift nob, an off-center dash display, and an engine that turned off at stop lights, but none of that is very unusual anymore.

Everything has been great...reliability, comfortable on long drives down the interstate at 75 mph or up in the mountains, comfy back seat, adequate capacity for carrying stuff around when back seats are folded down. And did I mention gas mileage without range anxiety? The 2012 plug-in has averaged 57.3 mpg combined gas/electric over 137K miles tracked at Fuelly.com. And the best part is when gas prices spike and I'm filling just 6 gallons, I'm the envy of the gas station!

But enough about me! If you pull the trigger, I hope you enjoy your new ride!

 

[JimZ]

I have a 2017 Honda Accord hybrid bought as a 1 owner corporate lease vehicle with 36,000 miles on it for 18 grand and love the thing—no charging and average around 40 to 45 miles to the gallon. Dont know what blue book is on it now and don't care, I don't plan on letting go of this thing for a while. Its been problem-free so far. currently at 70,000 miles.

 

[Mike Martin]

I don't understand how you all get by driving sedans, much less EVs. The wife drives a CRV and I have a Ridgeline. Both get pretty decent mileage. The wife gardens and I do wood working. It seems that we are always hauling something that wouldn't fit in a trunk. We also fish and need something to tow our boat with. EVs that can tow, haul materials are crazy expensive. We also make long trips which make EVs undesirable for us. I'm really not sure what the attraction is.

 

[LMichaels]

For me, the BZ is an SUV. It's about the same size as a Lexus RX350. (which for all intents) is a slightly shortened Highlander. Though for a short while Lexus had a lengthened one called the RX350L which was a standard Highlander chassis 3 row. About the only thing I would give up is the 3rd row and I can't remember the last time I used it.
The thing with the Prius (older ones) I knew a lot of folks who had them. To a person, they all loved them. But they were sort of "quirky" themselves (no offense). Seems now in the latest generation Toyota has gone to lengths to "normalize" it.
Also I haven't owned a boat now for 4 years and looks like that was my last one
Also now I am retired. So there is no more driving high speed 135 miles round trip to & from O'Hare every day, or back and forth to Minneapolis. (when I was based there as a flight attendant). Which all of those applications would preclude an electric or hell even a hybrid. As I've noticed owning our RAV4 doing high speed highways driving is not it's forte'. Since fuel economy drops down to ICE numbers. Hybrids and electrics truly lose their advantage in these applications.
But over 90% of our driving now is for the wife, to-from work (8 miles each way suburban driving), and grocery getter. For me, (I guess I'll be principal BZ driver), it's mostly grocery getter, run to Menards, or going out to see my best bud and or my dad. Between 65-80 round trip miles 90% 2 lane country roads. All of which are ideal and right in the wheel house of a BEV or Hybrid.
And there is still a chance I won't pull the trigger on the BZ. If I get bad news from my insurance agent, it's out. Not gonna eat huge insurance premium. If it's more like the RAV4, that will be good. Also wife hasn't seen or driven yet. I need to let her weigh in with actual drive not just a tacit "nod". So either one of those things could nix the deal.
And part of me feels like I'm turning my back on a trusted old friend with the Highlander. After all it's 14 years old nearly 190k miles, and it's been as flawless a vehicle as you could ever ask for. The only repairs ever done to it since new were 2 service campaigns by Toyota. Tailgate hinge reinforcements added when brand new, and at just over 100k engine oil cooler lines upgraded to steel. Both on Toyota's "nickel".
But I also get this nagging feeling, at nearly 190k in the rust belt somewhere down the line SOMETHING has to go. a strut, AC line, or a water pump, what have you. All of which would be $2000-$3000 cost to repair/replace. If not from wear/tear from corrosion.
It's also a bit of a gas hog. With MPG avg anywhere from 15mpg to 19mpg depending on the season. So, I'm just looking ahead at possibilities.

 

[JimK]

And there is still a chance I won't pull the trigger on the BZ. If I get bad news from my insurance agent, it's out. Not gonna eat huge insurance premium. If it's more like the RAV4, that will be good.

FWIW, I priced out adding a Model Y to our policy with USAA. The model Y was very close to our 2021 Honda Pilot for premium - less than $100 difference annually.

 

[LMichaels]

It looks like State Farm it would be about $95 per 6 mos term increase over the Highlander which is discounted because of it's age (being 14 yo). So, that is quite reasonable. Plus I already have 2 solid buyers if we finalize everything for the Highlander. So I do think it may be falling in place fairly well here.

 

[Chris Allingham]

Just a last couple of comments, then I'll bow out of this thread.

I don't understand how you all get by driving sedans, much less EVs.

I have found that a Prius hatchback is kind of magical thing. It's not as big as your wife's CRV but big enough to carry two large patio chairs, a side table, and a big framed picture as my wife recently did. We've also got a Chevy Equinox and I'm hard pressed to decide which one carries more stuff. On the rare occasion we need a pickup, I can rent one at U-Haul or borrow one from my brother. And we never do any towing.

The thing with the Prius (older ones) I knew a lot of folks who had them. To a person, they all loved them. But they were sort of "quirky" themselves (no offense).

In the beginning there were zealots who drove barefoot and too slow on the freeway in an attempt to eek out even higher fuel economy. But I've always felt that this whole quirky Prius owner thing was more of a meme than reality. I, too, know lots of people who own them, and they're not freaks. They're regular people who want a quality car with best-in-class gas mileage.

As I've noticed owning our RAV4 doing high speed highways driving is not it's forte'. Since fuel economy drops down to ICE numbers. Hybrids and electrics truly lose their advantage in these applications.

Except for my 2012 Prius! Even at 100% Interstate highway driving, my worst recorded fuel economy is 46 mpg. It is truly a miracle car when it comes to mileage!

 

[Josh Dekubber]

@LMichaels I can appreciate and relate to your high level of fanatic Researching. I have a feeling you're like me and by the time you're done with your deep dive research you go to the dealership and teach the salesman about the car and how it works because at that point he doesn't have near the education that you do on the cars that he sells for a living. I have no doubt you will make the right decision.

 

[Michael Chen]

@LMichaels Congratulations on possibly getting a new BZ! I hope it serves you well, and look forward to hearing about your experiences with it.

In the beginning there were zealots who drove barefoot and too slow on the freeway in an attempt to eek out even higher fuel economy. But I've always felt that this whole quirky Prius owner thing was more of a meme than reality. I, too, know lots of people who own them, and they're not freaks. They're regular people who want a quality car with best-in-class gas mileage.

Except for my 2012 Prius! Even at 100% Interstate highway driving, my worst recorded fuel economy is 46 mpg. It is truly a miracle car when it comes to mileage!

My dad definitely tried a lot of different weird Prius things to squeeze out more mileage (we owned two Gen 2's for many years), including this bizarre "accelerate to 22 mph, slow down to 19 mph" thing his friend claimed worked, and even tried to follow larger vehicles for drafting... he somehow only got yelled at once by an irate truck driver.

We had the same experience regarding highway mileage too with the Priuses. Heavily-loaded down with stuff, and driving over the speed limit as a younger, less careful person, I was getting 42 mpg. Could do 50 mpg with mixed driving.

I no longer remember the mileage we got out of our hybrid RX400H, but it was better than the Lexus NX200t I down-sized to, which I usually got 21-22 mpg out of.

 

[LMichaels]

Chris, I surely hope you did not take it wrong by the "quirky" comment. Was not meant to be derogatory in an any way. But, yeah I know both types of earlier Prius owners. The barefoot type and the type more like me but a little more "tree huggerish" But both love them. Primarily for economy and the reliability aspect. My gripe with the early ones was the weird interior and the way they responded to gas pedal input. With the difference between electric and ICE engaging was quite marked. I'm sure in time it's something you get used to and learn to work through. My POV there was I was driving so many kind of cars all different brands and drivelines. Everything from Hemi Challenger RT and Nissan 370ZX to Kia Rondo. But the Prius was VERY different and would take me by surprise. The first one I got in took me nearly 10 min just to figure out how to back it up, and then another 10 to figure out how to put in Park
Re, my observation relating to our RAV4. Even though Prius and RAV have nearly identical drive trains they're VERY different vehicles. The RAV being as aerodynamic as a brick, while the Prius uses specially sized tires, body shape and so on to eek the last drop of MPG out. And also the ICE in a RAV is a lot larger than in the older Prius (IIRC 1.8 liter to 2.5 liter) plus the weight factor. All of which cause the SUV to lose it's efficiency advantage as you start running over say 60. And me? I'm typically at 80+
Josh
Yeah sometimes it feels like that LOL. I feel the need to explore every avenue on a large purchase. Because unlike if you buy a T Shirt and don't like it, you can't return it for refund (same holds true with children LOL)
Looks like ins will be manageable (slightly higher but not unexpectedly so), I have 2 solid buyers for the Highlander as well. So now it's have the CFO test drive it and see what she thinks

 

[JKalchik]

In the beginning there were zealots who drove barefoot and too slow on the freeway in an attempt to eek out even higher fuel economy. But I've always felt that this whole quirky Prius owner thing was more of a meme than reality. I, too, know lots of people who own them, and they're not freaks. They're regular people who want a quality car with best-in-class gas mileage.

Hypermilers, and hardly unique to EVs. I first heard about this culture more than 20 years ago.

While I get the desire to eke out as much possible energy as you can, going to extremes like manually turning off the engine on long downhill slopes (especially in the US West,) and removing redundant safety mechanisms to save weight has never sat well with me.

 

[Timothy F. Lewis]

Larry, I know that you know what you like for your own reasons and they are perfectly valid. I hope this new ride of pride is as good as you felt the initial drive was!
I’m not getting anything for some time these days.
My KIA has served me VERY well, just put a new battery in it after seven (7) years and it’s not had, any service issues at all. I figure I’ll drive this until the wheels fall off!
Some times I wish it was a little bigger but, I don’t do a lot of hauling anymore.

 

[R Chin]

I tried the ole “pulse and glide” technique with my 06 Prius - it definitely works but takes a toll on your sanity and aggravates other drivers

I got 54mpg lifetime average over 275k miles by driving the speed limit, looking ahead to smartly time stoplights and braking moderately to maximize regeneration. No brake pad replacement needed over lifetime and got over 100k miles on Michelin EV tires. As counterpoint, my sister driving her 09 Prius got 42mpg, 30k miles on same tires and replaced brake pads multiple times.

Top gear had an episode where they had a Prius drive a course as fast as it could trailed by a BMW 3 series - the BMW used less fuel

Prius uses an Atkinson cycle engine where it has less low end torque but is super efficient at higher rpms. When paired with an electric motor they complement each other to create a broader power band. Great until you need a lot of power or the battery runs low - like going up the grapevine or mountain highway. RAV hybrid is tuned for more power but less efficiency at highway speeds. Among the Toyota lineup, RAV4 Prime is second only to Supra in acceleration.

 

[Michael Chen]

Hypermilers, and hardly unique to EVs. I first heard about this culture more than 20 years ago.

While I get the desire to eke out as much possible energy as you can, going to extremes like manually turning off the engine on long downhill slopes (especially in the US West,) and removing redundant safety mechanisms to save weight has never sat well with me.

I have a friend whose husband one day decided to rip out the rear sets, various interior portions, and who knows what else, of an old beater Civic or Accord he was driving to see if he'd get better mileage.... I don't think it worked out too well.

 

[JimK]

Among the Toyota lineup, RAV4 Prime is second only to Supra in acceleration.

WHAT!!??

 

[LMichaels]

I have a friend whose husband one day decided to rip out the rear sets, various interior portions, and who knows what else, of an old beater Civic or Accord he was driving to see if he'd get better mileage.... I don't think it worked out too well.

Many years ago (talking early 60s) we had a neighbor with a car the likes of which I'd never seen. A Mercedes Benz 190D. He, too was a pioneer type hypermiler. He new how to eek out every drop from that diesel. He even had heating oil delivered to his house to a large tank outside his detached garage. He even ran a fake fuel line to a fake heater inside the garage in case an inspector saw it.
He even took the back seat out and fitted speed boat fuel tanks into the package shelf to keep fillups to a minimum. He worked for Western Electric (think the huge old black telephones we had in our homes back in the day). It's what they made.
One day on his way to work a cop pulls him over and tickets him for driving a "truck" with car plates.
Was pretty different but he was a cool guy in a way. Taught me about shooting. He had a range in the basement and we used to shoot his pistols down there. And the guy could make things. Very handy guy.
He even used to keep the car idling all night on really cod nights outside the garage.

 

[JimZ]

I don't understand how you all get by driving sedans, much less EVs. The wife drives a CRV and I have a Ridgeline. Both get pretty decent mileage. The wife gardens and I do wood working. It seems that we are always hauling something that wouldn't fit in a trunk. We also fish and need something to tow our boat with. EVs that can tow, haul materials are crazy expensive. We also make long trips which make EVs undesirable for us. I'm really not sure what the attraction is.

I agree; it is a challenge at times. I put a trailer hitch on my wife's Honda Crosstour for a light kayak trailer which we use for kayaking and anything that doesn't fit in the cars. Works pretty well. I had to replace a bunch of 14' deck boards and worked out great. Light duty but it gets us by. Eventually, I will get a pickup when prices come back to reality or I will grab an older one and deal with the problems as they come. But not looking forward to that MPG but it is what it is.

 

[LMichaels]

So, I have a question re leasing. I'm going to lease this for 36 mos, 12k mi year. It gets me in best price position if I may want to purchase down the road as residual. But, my understanding of a lease is that you're "financing?" the difference between residual, and purchase price, plus, taxes & fees.
Toyota financial is doing a $15250 rebate (or price incentive) on leases with BZ. Honestly it works out as a pretty darn good situation. BUT, my sil was helping me look over paper work. He said since it's 0%, he said in theory, if he put together all the lease payments that total should be the equal of total value of the car, plus all the fees, minus the residual. Since this is the way both of us understand a lease. But, when he does that, the total of my payments is $1800 MORE than what was "financed".
Is anyone familiar with leasing? Is there something he and I are missing? Would like to know because I'm about ready to "walk" on the deal and or look for a different dealer.
Not like $1800 over 3 years is gonna break anyone, but it just ain't adding up. These guys have never done anything "untoward" to me before and have always treated me very well (both in sales and service).
But I don't want to walk in there today "guns blazing" over my mistake or misunderstanding