Pizza headaches


 
Kristof Jozsa

Kristof Jozsa

TVWBB Fan
I've been trying to grill pizzas in my unmodded 22" kettle but I'm not satisfied with the results - I could use some help here.

The dough I made was using a stock recipe I found used active yeast, olive oil, sugar, salt, warm water and italian 00 pizza flour and I left in the fridge for a day before using. It wasn't anything special, but its condition was fine, I could form it well and it was nice and uniform. I made 2 large pizzas (just fit for the large Weber pizza stone) from the dough I made from about 1.1lbs of flour.

After reading through the forums I decided to use the charcoal holders to elevate the pizza stone and used an overpouring chimney of lump, heated as well as I could. After dumping the lump, I heated the kettle for about 25 minute the dome temp was 480F when I had put the first pizza in. The first pizza was grilled for 15 minutes (the dome temp falled back to about 370F to that time) and still its edge wasn't even light brown. See the pictures:





(kids sticked to the basic ham+corn setup so no fancy toppings this time)

Before putting in the second pizza, I left the grill heat back for another 15 minutes but the max dome temp was around 450F so I needed 20 minutes to reach about the same level of doneness:



So, let's count what went wrong here: The dough is not Barb's one - I plan to try that one next. I don't have a second chimney so I think I was way low on fuel.. I did not use additional wood beside lump - I can try to pick up some oak blocks for next time from a friend who uses them in his fireplace. I don't have a pizza kettle extension and it isn't really sold in the whole country, so I really hope I can pull this trick somehow without it :)

Which of these could make a real difference? Any other hints for next time? Thanks!
 
As a rough guess, are you heating the stone IN the kettle before putting the 'za on the hot stone (no metal plate between the stone and the 'za? Looks like there is a metal plate between the stone and the 'za in the last pic.

If not, that might help.
 
Not sure I get you, Len. I heat the stone in the kettle while I prepare the pizza on the metal plate in the kitchen. Once it's ready to cook, I place the pizza with the metal plate into the kettle on top of the stone, as seen in the last pic. I do believe that's how Weber intended to use this kit - how else?

ps. this is the Weber kit I used on Amazon UK
 
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I talked to a Weber dealer on the phone about the case. Len is completely right, the metal plate was meant to help transferring the pizza to the stone, not placing it on top of it like I did.. (man, I feel stupid!)

He suggested a piece of wax paper with olive oil placed on the metal plate and he said the paper could also transfer to the stone while cooking. Also, he suggested going briqs instead of lump, to keep high heat for longer and he said one chimney of briqs should be sufficient for the Master Touch (he said he's baking pizzas around 450F though so it's not really the heat range I'm looking for).
 
I like to use cornmeal to allow transfer and release from the stone. Heat stone, shape dough on waxed paper or some surface, transfer to prepped steel (or wooden) peel then top and slide onto the stone on the grill.
Kristof, don't feel stupid, it's still a learning experience yet. I'm still learning and seem to continue to add obstacles every time I think I understand something.
For what it's worth, I have never used any kind of "elevator" when doing pizzas, I use the leftover terra-cotta floor tiles from the remodel of my kitchen.
 
You could also put the pizza on parchment paper and then you could put the pie AND paper on the stone to cook. The pie will brown and the paper will not burn
 
Len is right. I think you would prefer to use "cooking or baking" parchment paper (not calligraphy parchment) rather than waxed paper, which is pretty flimsy. It is widely available here, but if you have a problem finding it, you might ask someone in a bakery for a source. Restaurant equipment stores here carry it too, but one box will last you a lifetime or two.

I occasionally have had the baked pizza stick to the parchment after baking. I usually dust the parchment lightly with flour or cornmeal before topping it with the dough as you shape it.

Good luck! You are on the right track. We have all been in the same situation as you. Don't get discouraged.

Rita
 
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Few suggestions...
1. Place your stone in your home oven for at least 25-30 min at 350 degrees then transferred to your already hot grill...this will help u achieve better underneath done ness
2. For pizza baking temp should be at least at 600 degrees...try throwing wood chunks to your fire to get u there
3. Go to your fav pizza place and buy dough from them, it's cheap and it's done right..buy few sizes so u can experiment

Good luck
 
While I have given up on making pizza in a kettle grill, I do make it in a regular oven.
Having had many disappointing things happen while transferring the assembled pizza from the peel to the stone (even with a LOT of cornmeal as a lubricant), I started using parchment paper.
I fold the paper across the diameter many times & use a paper punch to make many little holes in it. I then put the paper on the peel & go about constructing it.
After that, I cut the paper as close as I can to the shape of the pizza.

I crank the oven up as hot as it will go - 550* & have not had the paper catch fire.
 
Rita Y said:
I occasionally have had the baked pizza stick to the parchment after baking. I usually dust the parchment lightly with flour or cornmeal before topping it with the dough as you shape it.
Click to expand...

I've had parchment paper burn and stick to my pizza too. I think the baking temp was around 600 degrees
 
William, did you also use wood chunks on top of the lid charcoal to crank the kettle up to 600F? I got some larger chunks the other day from a friend, going to give them a try next week..
 
So here goes another round, this time heating up the kettle with a full chimney of Weber briquettes instead of lump and added 3 big oak wood pieces after dumping the coal. I preheated the pizza stone in the oven and used it elevated in the grill, putting the briq holders between the top grate and the stone. I also used parchment paper instead of the metal plate - let's also call this progress ;)



The bottom line is: I can't get my heat up anywhere close to target. Last time using lump I could go up to 450F after placing the stone in, now briqs hardly gave me 400F. The additional wood chunks I added seemed to produce thick smoke with a thick taste, but no more heat.

Help me out please.. I really have no more idea how I could reach 550-600F in a kettle.
 
The fact that you're getting the thick smoke is from the lack of enough oxygen to support the coals and burning wood. The kettles vents were not designed to support a live fire. That's why when you put smoking woods on the coals they don't catch on fire unless you lift the lid and allow a lot more oxygen into the kettle.
Someone on the forum did get their kettle into the high 500s without using a kettle pizza attachment, but unfortunately I don't remember who it was. I have a kettle pizza and at 5000+ft I'm lucky to get to 550 with that using a large chimney of coals and two or three large pieces of wood.
You might try using a couple of pieces of pipe or rebar between the lid and the kettle to raise it an inch or so. That might give the coals and wood enough air to burn clean and get the heat up.
 
Thanks Rich, this explains what's happening.

For the record, I just sniped a PizzaQue PC7001 kit for $26+handling from eBay. It's a simpler one, but I've read raving reviews about how high it can go. I also like its slanted design (back being lowered compared to its front side), so in about two weeks I can give it another round with my upgraded kit.. can't wait!
 
Kristof Jozsa said:
Thanks Rich, this explains what's happening.

For the record, I just sniped a PizzaQue PC7001 kit for $26+handling from eBay. It's a simpler one, but I've read raving reviews about how high it can go. I also like its slanted design (back being lowered compared to its front side), so in about two weeks I can give it another round with my upgraded kit.. can't wait!
Click to expand...

That's great let us know how it works out.
 
Rich Dahl said:
The fact that you're getting the thick smoke is from the lack of enough oxygen to support the coals and burning wood. The kettles vents were not designed to support a live fire. That's why when you put smoking woods on the coals they don't catch on fire unless you lift the lid and allow a lot more oxygen into the kettle.
Someone on the forum did get their kettle into the high 500s without using a kettle pizza attachment, but unfortunately I don't remember who it was. I have a kettle pizza and at 5000+ft I'm lucky to get to 550 with that using a large chimney of coals and two or three large pieces of wood.
You might try using a couple of pieces of pipe or rebar between the lid and the kettle to raise it an inch or so. That might give the coals and wood enough air to burn clean and get the heat up.
Click to expand...

I have the Kettle Pizza and have gone well past 500 (closer to 700) when burning a lot of coals and oak splits, which is my go-to method. I also have a stainless steel lid that sits about 18 inches above my stone, that lid and thermal mass help a but, I think.
 
I don't have a weber kettle, so not sure if this is possible.....

Can you remove the ash catcher (or whatever it is called)?
If you can, then put something inside the kettle to prevent the charcoal from falling out of the hole ,(maybe like a wok holder or a ring made out of epanded metal sheet) and fire up the charcoal.
You should now have a boatload of air coming in.... and a very hot fire
(it's possible with my cadac kettle)
 
Hi Kristof,

It took me a while (maybe about 100 frustrating pizza cooks) but I finally decided that sometimes you just have to have the correct tools for a certain job. I think this is one of those times. Without a Kettle Pizza attachment or some similar kind of homemade attachment that specifically supports live fire in the kettle there really is no good way to achieve the temps you want. A few other thoughts:

- Heating up the stone in your home oven prior to taking it to the grill is important. Store bought stones have a fine line between being not hot enough and being way too hot. Heating in the stable and even heat of an oven is a good work-around.
- If you're not using a Kettle Pizza you might consider simply not chasing the Neapolitan ideal anymore. It's hard to run a Weber kettle up over 800 degrees for any length of time but amazingly simple to run it around 450 for quite a while. There are lots of good dough recipes out there for pizzas intended to bake at that temperature. If you don't mind a little thicker pie and a longer cook time it's a great way to do it. Any pizza is good pizza in my book.
 
Jim Mathews said:
I have the Kettle Pizza and have gone well past 500 (closer to 700) when burning a lot of coals and oak splits, which is my go-to method. I also have a stainless steel lid that sits about 18 inches above my stone, that lid and thermal mass help a but, I think.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree 100%. That's the setup I've gone to. When I irresponsibly load the Weber full of coals and wood splits I've been able to bump up against 800 for limited amounts of time. I've had a local masonry shop basically cut me a 22.5" tile disc that I use as the roof.
 
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