Using my electric kitchen oven as a holding oven for brisket


 
Chris Allingham

Chris Allingham

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Staff member
I'm going to cook a brisket for Smoke Day 16 this coming Saturday. I will cook to 165*F, wrap in butcher paper, take it up to 203-205*F, let it cool to about 170*F, then hold it for several hours before eventually slicing at 145*F.

I would normally hold for several hours using an empty cooler. But just for kicks, I set my electric kitchen oven to its lowest setting of 170*F and monitored it for two hours using ThermoWorks Signals and charted the results.

Notice how the oven shoots way above 170*F, then makes a long slow decline to 145*F then wanders between 145-153*F...the perfect holding oven temp!

I need to do this test at a more typical baking temp like 350*F to see how the oven cycles around that temp. (I guess I should also do an ice bath test of Signals to check for accuracy, but I assume it's rock solid.) But I have to admit I'm not unhappy about what it's doing when set to 170*F. I think this will be perfect for holding my brisket on Saturday like they do with an Alto-Shaam in a BBQ restaurant.

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Ah, the wonders of data acquisition & logging. IOW, a little knowledge is a good thing.

When you say "several hours", I'd bet there's a safety shutoff at 8-12 hours. Mine shuts off at 8.
 
two possibilities 1st: oven cooking is not that demanding, or your graphing software is not very good. You could spent a few thousand dollars and get an industrial temperature controller and wire it into your oven. then you will get a graph of true temperature changes. Sometimes digital devices make you aware that tight control of temperature is really not needed to produce finger licking good food.
 
That's pretty cool. I wish my oven would go that low. Ours is gas and unfortunately not the greatest. I wouldn't try to set it below 200.
 
I've seen temp charts of electric ovens before, and was surprised at the temp swings.

What spreadsheet software are you using to make your chart ? I'm using Thermoworks Gateway to chart my smokes on my offset. I'm using Google Spreadsheet but not happy with the detail on the chart.

Here's a pork butt cook from last week on the offset, you can see the chart does not give good temp detail

pork butt may 10 vs. Time.png
 
My wife bakes a lot. We've tested the oven many times over the last 5 or so years when we got it as it varies a good deal, like 50 degrees. What she does now is start the oven about an hour before baking, once it comes up to temp she'll wait about 10 minutes then turn off the oven and turn it back on. At this point the oven is normally 25 or so degrees off what it was initially set to so it'll work it's way back up without waiting till the temp goes down 50 degrees at which point the oven will go back on by itself. She'll do this a couple times up to the hour mark. By this time it's pretty good at holding it's temp. I had done some internet research at the time and found 50 degrees to be fairly common.

For baking, she will repeat the off/on after removing each batch of whatever. Beats waiting for the oven to drop enough so it'll kick in by itself.

I do the same thing when bringing it up to 550 for pizza.

5ish year old GE Profile convection. Convection isn't used in the above.
 
I did a similar experiment with a butcher paper-wrapped brisket on a sheet pan in an electric oven. In an attempt to hold 140-ish, I set it to 170 and when it reached 150°, I shut it off. It took quite a while to drop to 140° -- about a half-hour. When it did, I turned it back on and repeated the process for the next 3 hours. It was a minor pain, but it worked. (BTW, I took the advice of the Franklin take-away crew and put 5 or 6 pats of butter on top of the brisket to keep it from drying.)
 
We bought a new Whirlpool oven two years ago to replace a 19 year old Whirlpool.
My favorite feature is the Keep Warm function.
The oven will work fine at a minimum of 140’.
 
I'd be more concerned about the fact that set at 170 your oven swings between 145 and 153 for a couple of hours and then never gets back up to 170. How does it function at other temps?
 
Mike Cout said:
I'd be more concerned about the fact that set at 170 your oven swings between 145 and 153 for a couple of hours and then never gets back up to 170. How does it function at other temps?
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Yes, that is a big concern and why I mentioned doing this same test at 350*F. :)
Jeff Boudman said:
We bought a new Whirlpool oven two years ago to replace a 19 year old Whirlpool. My favorite feature is the Keep Warm function. The oven will work fine at a minimum of 140’.
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That's a feature I want! Maybe next time...
Lynn Dollar said:
What spreadsheet software are you using to make your chart ?
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Those two charts are screenshots from the ThermoWorks app on my iPhone. When I download the actual data and chart it using Excel, I get this.

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My whirlpool is gas and has a warming drawer, its electric but on about 5" tall stuff can go in it, it will hold 2 -9x13 pans, great for small stuff. I need to chart the temp on the oven as the wife thinks it cooks at too low of a temp, then fins a way to adjust it. gotta love electronic stuff.
 
Lynn Dollar said:
I like the degree axis better on that chart. Will have to look into Excel.
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As I said one problem being software, which as you showed was the problem. One must remember not all devices use software that actually works. The real unanswered question is how tight of temperature control is needed to produce great tasting Que. In automation theory, you only provide the control you need, tighter the control the higher the cost of production.
 
Chris Allingham said:
I'm going to cook a brisket for Smoke Day 16 this coming Saturday. I will cook to 165*F, wrap in butcher paper, take it up to 203-205*F, let it cool to about 170*F, then hold it for several hours before eventually slicing at 145*F.
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Hi Chris, I watched your video regarding hot holding using your oven, it's most interesting to say the very least. Since it's been a while since you posted this, I was wondering if maybe you have more info, answers to a couple questions

1) Why did you cook it to done and then let cool to 170 until before putting it in the hot hold?
2) When letting it cool to 170, did you wrap it and stow it away in a cooler?
3) Any thoughts to cooking the brisket to say 185 / 190 when both the point & flat are pretty tender and then wrapping it up in foil and placing it in an oven set at 200, leaving the brisket in the hot hold until an internal of 200?

I recently picked up a 10LBS brisket, and this hot hold thing is very interesting to me. Thanks for any and all insight
 
I basically do the same. Let it cool down so it quits cooking.... Then wrap it tight and put it in the oven at 150 for a few hours until ready to eat.

Lots of people do finish the briskets in the oven once it quits taking up smoke. As soon as they need to wrap it they often just finish it in the oven. Personally, if I've got a hot smoker already I don't see the logic behind it but it doesn't really make any difference it will do the job. But then again I use a controller in my smoker is better control than my oven so it's really easy.
 
ChuckO said:
Hi Chris, I watched your video regarding hot holding using your oven, it's most interesting to say the very least. Since it's been a while since you posted this, I was wondering if maybe you have more info, answers to a couple questions

1) Why did you cook it to done and then let cool to 170 until before putting it in the hot hold?
2) When letting it cool to 170, did you wrap it and stow it away in a cooler?
3) Any thoughts to cooking the brisket to say 185 / 190 when both the point & flat are pretty tender and then wrapping it up in foil and placing it in an oven set at 200, leaving the brisket in the hot hold until an internal of 200?

I recently picked up a 10LBS brisket, and this hot hold thing is very interesting to me. Thanks for any and all insight
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Okay it's been a couple days. I hope nobody minds if I put in my humble thoughts. I've been doing the hot hold thing with brisket since last summer as it's been becoming popular recently.

1) Once the brisket is done, it's done. But I think most of us know to let it rest - that is, let it come down in temperature. Let the juices calm down and redistribute. The brisket will be more tender and more juicy if it rests after the cook. A hot hold right away to a brisket that's already done will likely cause the brisket to over-cook.

2) If I was planning on doing the hot hold to a done brisket, it would be wrapped in paper but I would leave it out at room temp until it cools down. If it was wrapped in foil, I might vent it. Personally, I would rest mine down to IT of 140-160. Then I would do the hot hold at 150 oven temp.

3) I use the hot hold to solve the long cook problem because I don't like getting up at 3 am for a long cook, or staying up all night, etc. I have cooked until the flat is 190, then hold overnight at 150 right away. Since cooking is about temperature AND time, the method works to put the final touches on the brisket that's not quite done but finishes so that it is perfect. Happily, my oven does hold at 150, although the high low temps swing between 175 and 130. Brisket comes out great!

Good luck
 
Thanks guys

Friday night, I'll smoke my 10LBS brisket over night until done, I let my briskets ride until done, I don't wrap them. I'll pull it and let it cool on kitchen counter until it drops down to 170, and then wrap it up tightly in aluminum foil, maybe with a small pour of beef broth. I'll put it in my oven, the lowest setting it 170, it seems bounce around between 155 - 165. I'll probably hot hold it for 5 maybe 6 hours, with a goal to serve it up at 145-150. Should the internal rise above 170 during the hot hold, I guess I'll turn off the oven to get it back down to no more than 170
 
ChuckO said:
1) Why did you cook it to done and then let cool to 170 until before putting it in the hot hold?
2) When letting it cool to 170, did you wrap it and stow it away in a cooler?
3) Any thoughts to cooking the brisket to say 185 / 190 when both the point & flat are pretty tender and then wrapping it up in foil and placing it in an oven set at 200, leaving the brisket in the hot hold until an internal of 200?
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Sorry for the late reply, I was away for a few days.

1) If you cook a brisket to 203-205*F and don't let it cool down, the carryover cooking will shoot the internal meat temp higher than 203-205*F, overcooking the meat. Cracking open the butcher paper or aluminum foil allows you to bring down the temp before closing the wrapper and holding the meat. First I heard of this was in Harry Soo's barbecue class, it's was a competition technique.

2) Brisket was wrapped in butcher paper at 160-170*F and returned to the WSM to finish cooking to 203-205*F, then moved to the kitchen where I cracked open the paper, allowing heat to dissipate and drop to 170*F internal before closing the paper and placing in the oven.

3) I've never tried the technique you describe. I have cooked brisket to 160-170*F, wrapped, and finished in a 250*F oven until 203-205*F internal temp. What you're describing sounds like an oven "sous vide" where the oven temp is your target meat internal temp. Given the less efficient transfer of heat via air versus transfer of heat via water, I don't know how well this technique would work.
 
Some ovens can be calibrated. Mine has a warming feature but I think it only goes down to 170 but I've calibrated it down to 155. I haven't tried it yet. What I have used is a cheap 22 quart electric turkey roaster. I put a probe in it and tweat the knob until it's holding 140 to 150.
 
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