Peter Gallagher
TVWBB Wizard
EricV.
TVWBB Wizard
Did you air dry in the fridge uncovered overnight? If not try that for even a crisper wing.
Brett-EDH
TVWBB Hall of Fame
What’s the definition of “crank up the temp?”
I was able to get the wings to 450° dial temp yesterday when cooking. But I can and have done that with CBs in the past.
Were my wings good? Yes
Were my wings different than in the past with just CBs? I still don’t think so.
Key point here, I am using JD on both of these cooks and from my experiences, JD burns hotter than KPro, for example.
I’m thinking a heat check is required now for KPro burning temps vs JD burning temps.
Maybe, if KPro burns cooler than JD, then yes, a vortex will concentrate the heat coming off KPro and deliver a better wing or chicken final product.
What can you KPro or KBB peeps offer up here, please? Anyone have data on burn temps?
Brett-EDH
TVWBB Hall of Fame
Paper towel dried, seasoned with dry ingredients only and then added a very small amount of neutral cooking oil and tossed in a workbowl for even distribution.
The wings I made were good and crispy. No complaints. Just still trying to glean the difference of CBs and vortex.
Notes, cooktime was 60 mins total. I sauced the wings at 53 mins and cooked the sauce in for 8 mins. I am aware that saucing kills the crisp. I did sample a wing before saucing, to test crispness and the wings were crispy. Bug again, not much different that just using CBs in the middle throughout the cook.
DanHoo
TVWBB Olympian
For me "crank up the temp" was 450 to 500F sustained. I don't have hard scientific data like how much coal, or how long to get to how hot. I recall the vortex on the lower rack got hot faster and stayed hot longer than two CBs on the lower rack. I'll have to dig through pics to remember what I've cooked with the vortex on the bottom rack and what I've used CBs on the bottom rack for.
I've only used KPro and the vortex on a kettle, not the WSK. If only someone had two WSKs, they could do a side-by-side test...
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Just for reference Brett, I tend to use what’s ever left from a basket cook in the bottom of the Vortex and touch off a full chimney to top the cone. I’m getting some temps above 600* usually. A few times experimenting with the thing and you will be riding high! Oh, I’m using K-Pro.
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Dan, I think that means you need a second WSK!For me "crank up the temp" was 450 to 500F sustained. I don't have hard scientific data like how much coal, or how long to get to how hot. I recall the vortex on the lower rack got hot faster and stayed hot longer than two CBs on the lower rack. I'll have to dig through pics to remember what I've cooked with the vortex on the bottom rack and what I've used CBs on the bottom rack for.
I've only used KPro and the vortex on a kettle, not the WSK. If only someone had two WSKs, they could do a side-by-side test...
DanHoo
TVWBB Olympian
and @Brett-EDH happens to have one for sale. I'll start a go-fund-me right nowDan, I think that means you need a second WSK!
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I’ll chip in five bucks!
Brett-EDH
TVWBB Hall of Fame
Dome temp thermometer or laser to the coals temp?
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Dome temp with laser so, contact on OUTSIDE not grate temp. I do not believe that a dome thermometer is worth installing for my purposes.. if I can’t touch the handle without gloves, it’s hotter than Dutch love inside that thing.
Ed P
TVWBB Platinum Member
A Vortex (and CBs, for that matter) localize and focus heating. A Vortex also acts as a venturi, and air speeds up as it passes through a venturi. Temperature may be increased with the additional oxygen, depending on the material being burned, or it may not burn hotter but merely faster. A Vortex also focuses the heat to a smaller area than a CB. If you were to use a thermal imager on the dome, I suspect you would see a concentration of heat directly above the Vortex, fading off to the sides. A more scientific approach would be to stick a thermocouple into the stream of hot air coming off the vortex or CB using the same fuel and see if the temp is increased by passing through a venturi.
Jim C in Denver
TVWBB All-Star
450F really isn't that hot for cooking wings. Shoot for hotter next wing cook.
The trick of the vortex is that you can cook indirect (so the wings don't combust) but at very high heat.
It works really well in a kettle. In a kamado, maybe you can get a similar center heat concetration other ways.
The trick of the vortex is that you can cook indirect (so the wings don't combust) but at very high heat.
It works really well in a kettle. In a kamado, maybe you can get a similar center heat concetration other ways.
Ed P
TVWBB Platinum Member
I don't think the issue is the cooking technique...I think Brett has that nailed down and then some. The issue (and correct me if I am wrong) is that Brett does not see an advantage to using the Vortex, and he might be right. A briq is manufactured and compounded to provide a moderate temperature over a longer period of time, and by using a Vortex that causes the burn rate to increase, an increase in temperature could be realized. Whether that increase in burn rate applies to a lump that is made from a South American hardwood and burns hotter than the blue blazes anyway remains to be seen.
Brett-EDH
TVWBB Hall of Fame
winner winner we had a chicken wing dinner (breakfast, really).
spot on in that DOES the vortex create MORE heat using JD lump than just using CBs... this is the magic question.
all grills, when cooking indirect are using convection heat (swirling heat inside a chamber) to cook the food.
from my experiences on the WSK, that the WSK is so well insulated that i've gotten/achieved excellent crisped chicken skin using BOTH CBs and the vortex. BUT, does the vortex actually do more/better than just using CBs?
i am going to have to do a cook next using CBs (again) with wings and see if there's any difference.
since i don't use any Kxxxx products on anything EXCEPT LAS with deflector (that's low and slows with using the Weber WSK defelctor, not the LAS airport) i don't have any Kxxxxx data to compare vortex improvements to chicken skin versus CBs. i am hopeful another WSK owner will/can chime in on this cook method and fuel model.
do note, I am not dissatisfied with the vortex; just don't think it offered a dramatic or even noticable improvment using JD lump in the WSK. i DID like how the vortex shaped my JD lump for cooking the burgers which came up after the wings cook. so i do see using the vortext to shape a lump pile quickly and easily.
all your feedback and input is appreciated. please keep the data coming. i am a bit of a nerd when it comes to process and procedure when cooking. this is a hobby i still enjoy. and it comes with benefits, LUNCH OR DINNER!
BrianCal
TVWBB Pro
Lots of discussion here about crispy skin. Just my 2 cents…I go the complete opposite. Slow cook, 2 hours at 200-250 degrees, just some Pappy’s rub. Crispiest wings ever, the slow cook gently takes the fat out of the skin but doesn’t dry the meat. Sometimes I make them in advance and give them a quick sear on the grill to heat them up.
And I always wait until after to sauce them, we usually serve some sauced withFranks with butter melted in it, some with Blues Hog, and save some dry for the no sauce crowd.
And I always wait until after to sauce them, we usually serve some sauced withFranks with butter melted in it, some with Blues Hog, and save some dry for the no sauce crowd.
Brett-EDH
TVWBB Hall of Fame
note, on high temps in the WSK, 45 mins is enough cooktime for wings. my 1 hour yesterday pushed the wings to their edge of happiness (moisture and crisp). I could have pulled at 45 mins and done like you show, a wet bowl saucing.
either way, the wings were good. around 15 pieces leftover which'll be tonight dinner or tomorrow's.
i have some fresh cod that i bought at costco and will likely CI sear them tonight with butter basting, garlic, and thyme in the CI. served with some smashed pots with everything bagel sprinkled on them and some MX creama.
your wings featured are a nice size. where'd you buy them?
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I’m not doing a scientific analysis of how the thing works on any kind of “Imperial” scale, I’m simply talking about cooking wings for cryin‘ the rain. Yes, it certainly does create a Venturi effect, that’s what it’s is designed to do. The, more or less, spherical design of a kettle was part of George’s concept and, it does what he’d envisioned. All I’m saying is that it takes a few cooks to see just how anyone prefers to use the thing. Marty’s design for the Vortex is well considered and, does exactly what he says it will do. It’s not necessarily for everyone but, I use it and am very pleased. Some people like vanilla, some like rocky road. I see value in both.
