What did I do wrong? Beef Brisket fail!


 
G

Grant Narita

TVWBB Fan
After 2 years I finally got up the courage to attempt a beef brisket, well, it was the flat of the brisket, 5.6 lbs. I read info on here first so I would know what to do. Started a slow burn using the Minion method. About 3 chunks of Pecan wood. Put rub on my brisket (rub was way too salty, have to try a sweeter one next time I think). Put fat side down on WSM. Kept around 225 (215-235) using my remote probe, stuck in the side of the brisket the whole time so I wouldn't need to ever lift the lid. Hit the Plateau at the 165 degree mark, for about 4 hours. It took 13 hours total to reach 190, then it seemed to stop there. Figuring that a 5.6 lb piece shouldn't take 13 hours, I wondered how accurate my temp probe was, and figured if anything, it was overcooked.

Took off at 190, foiled for another 45 minutes and let it sit. But when I cut into it it was hard to cut, meat was very dry (I made sure to cut against the grain)... also, for some reason I didn't have a smoke ring. I don't know if it was undercooked or overcooked. The brisket came trimmed already, but there was probably at least 1/4 inch fat on the fat side. I am stumped. Figured 13 hours should have been way more than enough time for a 5.6 pound flat. It was select, not choice. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Not sure I want to try another one for now since the cost of a brisket is not cheap, even for just the flat!
 
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Lots of variables here but from what I've gathered thus far on this bbq journey is that its going to be very difficult to get a select brisket to anything slightly better than shoe leather.

Did u add any liquids when foiling? Also, how long did u allow to rest?
 
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Sorry to hear of your failed brisket. I have only done a flat also, but mine fortunately came out great. The biggest struggle I had was going by temperature and not time. Cooking at 125 takes forever it seems. The old saying " it's done when it's done" is so very true with a brisket.
I really have no experience as do the others to share, but I was wondering where you purchased your flat. After reading what others have done I pretty much get all my meat at Costco and have yet to be disappointed.
If it's not your probe than maybe the brisket was the issue.
 
Did you foil at the stall or did you leave the brisket unfoiled? When you hit 195*, did you probe for tenderness or you just looking for temperature?
 
Mac LA said:
Lots of variables here but from what I've gathered thus far on this bbq journey is that its going to be very difficult to get a select brisket to anything slightly better than shoe leather.

Did u add any liquids when foiling? Also, how long did u allow to rest?
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I did not foil at any point, as it seemed that some people don't foil and it can still come out great. Maybe I need to foil next time. I let it rest for 45 min.

Also, not sure why I didn't get a smoke ring. I always do when I make my ribs. What causes a smoke ring or causes one not to form?
 
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Dustin Dorsey said:
It was probably undercooked. Not sure why it took that long. Was it dry and crumbly or just dry and tough?
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It was dry and tough, difficult to cut. I figured there was no way it could be undercooked after 13 hours for only 5.6 lbs. I did notice when cutting that it is a fairly lean brisket, but then again is is the first one I have tried so I am not sure how a good brisket really looks like.
 
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Bill Farmer said:
Have your checked your probe with boiling water? If it is reading correctly, then it was undercooked.
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I have used the bbq temp probe that measures the bbq temp and that seems accurate, but this is the first time I used the probe that sticks in the brisket the entire time. Also, unfortunately my instant probe broke last week so I couldn't test to see the actual temp of the meat after I took it off the smoker.
 
Bob Ivey said:
Did you foil at the stall or did you leave the brisket unfoiled? When you hit 195*, did you probe for tenderness or you just looking for temperature?
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I figured I would just let it sit in the smoker and trust my temp probe, waiting for 205. At 190 it stalled there again after stalling at 165 for 4 hours. I didn't foil. After 13 hours and now 4 hours past dinner, I figured my probe was not accurate and decided to take it out. But it was tough, not crumbly, not jiggly too touch, slices not easy to cut. How could a less than 6 lb brisket be undercooked after 13 hours? Usually I could figure out what I did wrong but stumped this time.
 
Grant;
I am, by no means, a brisket expert. However, reading your account of the cook suggests to me that your brisket was under cooked. A brisket's weight does not determine cook time. THICKNESS determines cook time. Further, temperature will only get you "in the neighborhood". You MUST probe for tenderness. "It's not done until it is done"...

Foiling is a big help to reach tenderness in less time and seems to be more reliable for most in producing a good product.

Don't be discouraged but keep a record of what you have done and it will help the "learning curve". Remember, failures teach us more than successes.

Keep on smokin',
Dale53:wsm:
 
Grant my first couple of briskets were not good at all. It sounds to me like it was overcooked. Keep at it! I finally achieved success by reading a bunch of posts on brisket and forming my strategy based on that. Good luck!
 
Under Cooked : Brisket is 'dry' and 'tough'. Connective tissue still intact.

Just Right : Brisket is 'moist' and 'tender'. Connective tissue has broken down (denatured) into Gelatin, which is that 'moisture' we all love.

Over Cooked : Brisket is 'dry' and 'crumbly'. Gelatin has drained away (dry) and nothing left to hold the muscle fibers together, so it crumbles.
 
Grant Narita said:
It was dry and tough, difficult to cut. I figured there was no way it could be undercooked after 13 hours for only 5.6 lbs. I did notice when cutting that it is a fairly lean brisket, but then again is is the first one I have tried so I am not sure how a good brisket really looks like.
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Might sound strange, but your brisket was undercooked. The moisture in a brisket is locked away in the connective tissues throughout the brisket. When those connective tissues break down, the collagen renders making the brisket nice and moist. Coincidentally, this break down also makes the brisket tender as well. The break down is a function of time at temperature, or temperature over time. I.e. it takes a long time at lower temps or a shorter amount of time at higher temps.

WRT the amount of time your brisket cooked, cook time isn't determined by the weight of the brisket, but rather, by the thickness of the cut. For example, say that there are two 5lb hunks of brisket. One is an entire flat that is 1.5 inches thick, the other is a partial flat from a much larger brisket and it's 2.5 inches thick. Even though they weigh the same amount, the 2nd brisket will take much longer to cook as the 2.5 inches of thickness is what determines the cook time.

Something else to note, when cooking a full packer, you basically ignore the point (which is the thickest part). You determine when the brisket is done by probing the thickest part of the flat. The reason you ignore the point is that it has much more marbeling and is less dense that the flat, therefore, you can cook it longer and it still turns out fine. Say that I have a 16lb brisket and the thickest part of the flat is 2.5 inches thick. That 2.5 inches will determine the cook time. IF I completely remove the point, and cut off 1/2 the remaining flat, the resulting 6lb piece of flat will take just as long to cook as the entire 16lb packer would have taken. If it took 16 hrs to cook the whole 16lb packer at 220ish, that would be 1 hour per pound. The 6lb flat would take the same 16 hrs, which would be 2 2/3'rd hours per pound. The numbers are skewed even worse for smaller chunks of fairly thick flats. I've seen upwards of 4+ hrs per pound.

How to determine that the brisket is done ? Take your temp probe and stick it into the thickest part of the flat at a couple of spots. When it goes in and out with little to no resistance, like a knife through warm butter, your brisket is done. Another way is to go by how the brisket feels. If it starts to wiggle like jello, it's ready. This one is more difficult to learn, but once you figure it out, it works.

How to speed up the cook time. Couple of ways. First is to cook at a higher temp. (Just as an aside, I didn't see if you were measuring dome temp or grate temp. Grate temp is what is important.) The higher the grate temp, the faster the brisket will cook. Some do briskets at 300+ degrees. Another thing to do is wrap in foil once the brisket hits about 160ish. At this stage, the brisket should have taken on a nice amount of smoke and is ready to go into what is called "the stall". This is where the brisket undergoes evaporative cooling and the temp stops rising for quite some time, or it might even start to go down a bit. Basically, it's similar to you or I sweating to cool down. Cooking at 275 or above helps to alleviate the stall, as does wrapping in tin foil or butcher paper. If you are cooking at 225ish and really want to power through the stall, take the brisket off, wrap it, dump some more lit coal in the basket while the brisket is off then put the brisket back on. The foil and the increase in chamber temp will get you done much quicker.

All that said, if you don't want to foil, and you want to cook low and slow, that's absolutely fine. Go ahead and do so. Just know that the brisket is going to take a really long time, even if it only weighs 5lbs and that it's done when it's done, not what a clock says that it should be (or when you think it's absolutely been long enough). :)
 
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DaveW said:
Might sound strange, but your brisket was undercooked. The moisture in a brisket is locked away in the connective tissues throughout the brisket. When those connective tissues break down, the collagen renders making the brisket nice and moist. Coincidentally, this break down also makes the brisket tender as well. The break down is a function of time at temperature, or temperature over time. I.e. it takes a long time at lower temps or a shorter amount of time at higher temps.

WRT the amount of time your brisket cooked, cook time isn't determined by the weight of the brisket, but rather, by the thickness of the cut. For example, say that there are two 5lb hunks of brisket. One is an entire flat that is 1.5 inches thick, the other is a partial flat from a much larger brisket and it's 2.5 inches thick. Even though they weigh the same amount, the 2nd brisket will take much longer to cook as the 2.5 inches of thickness is what determines the cook time.

Something else to note, when cooking a full packer, you basically ignore the point (which is the thickest part). You determine when the brisket is done by probing the thickest part of the flat. The reason you ignore the point is that it has much more marbeling and is less dense that the flat, therefore, you can cook it longer and it still turns out fine. Say that I have a 16lb brisket and the thickest part of the flat is 2.5 inches thick. That 2.5 inches will determine the cook time. IF I completely remove the point, and cut off 1/2 the remaining flat, the resulting 6lb piece of flat will take just as long to cook as the entire 16lb packer would have taken. If it took 16 hrs to cook the whole 16lb packer at 220ish, that would be 1 hour per pound. The 6lb flat would take the same 16 hrs, which would be 2 2/3'rd hours per pound. The numbers are skewed even worse for smaller chunks of fairly thick flats. I've seen upwards of 4+ hrs per pound.

How to determine that the brisket is done ? Take your temp probe and stick it into the thickest part of the flat at a couple of spots. When it goes in and out with little to no resistance, like a knife through warm butter, your brisket is done. Another way is to go by how the brisket feels. If it starts to wiggle like jello, it's ready. This one is more difficult to learn, but once you figure it out, it works.

How to speed up the cook time. Couple of ways. First is to cook at a higher temp. (Just as an aside, I didn't see if you were measuring dome temp or grate temp. Grate temp is what is important.) The higher the grate temp, the faster the brisket will cook. Some do briskets at 300+ degrees. Another thing to do is wrap in foil once the brisket hits about 160ish. At this stage, the brisket should have taken on a nice amount of smoke and is ready to go into what is called "the stall". This is where the brisket undergoes evaporative cooling and the temp stops rising for quite some time, or it might even start to go down a bit. Basically, it's similar to you or I sweating to cool down. Cooking at 275 or above helps to alleviate the stall, as does wrapping in tin foil or butcher paper. If you are cooking at 225ish and really want to power through the stall, take the brisket off, wrap it, dump some more lit coal in the basket while the brisket is off then put the brisket back on. The foil and the increase in chamber temp will get you done much quicker.

All that said, if you don't want to foil, and you want to cook low and slow, that's absolutely fine. Go ahead and do so. Just know that the brisket is going to take a really long time, even if it only weighs 5lbs and that it's done when it's done, not what a clock says that it should be (or when you think it's absolutely been long enough). :)
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Thanks. This really helps a lot. I will probably foil next time to speed up the process. didn't understand that a 6 pound flat could take that long, and wasn't aware about the thickness thing. So do most people foil when it hits the Stall, or wait till after the stall? On some websites they said foil around 170, which would probably be after the stall. If foiling helps to accelerate the time of the stall I am all for that.

Also, is it important to put any kind of liquid in the foil, or just wrapping would be fine?
 
And thanks for your help everyone. I am still fairly new at this. I had planned to go to Henry's class this month but had to cancel. This is the first really long smoke I have tried. A lesson learned!

As I mentioned, my instant thermometer no longer works. Definitely need one. Would have helped if I had one this last time. Anyone recommend a good, not too expensive one I can order from Amazon?
 
Mark Barton said:
Everything that Dave just said!
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Thanks!



Bob Bass said:
Excellent description, Dave !
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Thanks Bob !

Grant Narita said:
Thanks. This really helps a lot. I will probably foil next time to speed up the process. didn't understand that a 6 pound flat could take that long, and wasn't aware about the thickness thing. So do most people foil when it hits the Stall, or wait till after the stall? On some websites they said foil around 170, which would probably be after the stall. If foiling helps to accelerate the time of the stall I am all for that.

Also, is it important to put any kind of liquid in the foil, or just wrapping would be fine?
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You're welcome Grant. As for foiling, for the most part, there are two reasons why people do it. One is to speed up the cooking process, the other, to kind of "lock in" the color/bark of the outside of the brisket. Foiling at any point will speed things up. Foiling right when the stall begins will speed to cook up more than foiling after the stall, as the stall can last for a number of hours. people saying to foil at 170 are doing so either because that's when their briskets usually stall, or, that's when their briskets usually achieve the color/bark that they prefer. They don't want it any darker. BTW, should add that the temp at which the stall begins can vary based on things like chamber temp, chamber humidity, ambient humidity, etc.

If I am doing a low/slow cook and if I decide to foil, I kind of watch my temp probe. The internal temp of the meat should rise at a fairly steady pace and then it will just come to a grinding halt. At that point, regardless of the temp, I'd pull it and wrap it IF the brisket has a good color to it. If the bark hasn't formed yet, I bite the bullet and let it go until I have a nice bark, then wrap.



Grant Narita said:
And thanks for your help everyone. I am still fairly new at this. I had planned to go to Henry's class this month but had to cancel. This is the first really long smoke I have tried. A lesson learned!

As I mentioned, my instant thermometer no longer works. Definitely need one. Would have helped if I had one this last time. Anyone recommend a good, not too expensive one I can order from Amazon?
Click to expand...


If you want an instant read, I'd go with a ThermoPop from Thermoworks. If you want a remote probe that you can leave in to monitor chamber temp and meat temp, get a Maverick Et733
 
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