Technivorm Moccamaster Coffee Machine


 
DanHoo said:
My mocca master.
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Yes...that's how mine looks. I've pretty much given up on stopping the brewing process for 30 seconds for the so-called bloom. I taste zero difference when doing it. I've got my grind setting dialed in at 19-20 on the Baratza Encore and with the Delonghi Ariete in the other house. Both are medium-course...about like the sand on the beach up the street.
 
DanHoo said:
My mocca master.
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If mine would do that (never has regardless of water, filter brand or type, grind settings, grinder used) cleaned it to an inch of it's life with the good descaling solution, etc. No matter what I do water just dribbles down the side of the basket after the initial "burst". And then only grinds opposite the handle get wetted. I have literally noted the grinds closest the handle actually being still dry after a brew session. Anyway if mine would do that without having to stand there for 2 or 3 min waiting for the basket to fill with the hot water to fully wet the bed I would not even think of switching. Has anyone done the temp testing I have done? I'm wondering if perhaps my brewer is not getting hot enough which is not allowing the water to come out as much more than a gurggling dribble? Would love to see if anyone has and compare to the readings I posted from mine.. Maybe my heating element is "kerput"?
 
LMichaels said:
If mine would do that (never has regardless of water, filter brand or type, grind settings, grinder used) cleaned it to an inch of it's life with the good descaling solution, etc. No matter what I do water just dribbles down the side of the basket after the initial "burst". And then only grinds opposite the handle get wetted. I have literally noted the grinds closest the handle actually being still dry after a brew session. Anyway if mine would do that without having to stand there for 2 or 3 min waiting for the basket to fill with the hot water to fully wet the bed I would not even think of switching. Has anyone done the temp testing I have done? I'm wondering if perhaps my brewer is not getting hot enough which is not allowing the water to come out as much more than a gurggling dribble? Would love to see if anyone has and compare to the readings I posted from mine.. Maybe my heating element is "kerput"?
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How did you measure the temperature? I'll try using my Thermapen as the water drips over the basket.
 
Larry I suspect the heating is not up to par.

Can you run two tests? Neither need coffee.

Fill it with 40 oz of water and time it.

Edit: time from turn on until it empty.

After it cools, run the test again on another outlet and circuit.

I'll measure mine. I need to clean mine so I'll run it before and after cleaning.
 
Jay and Dan et al, I ran the test using the small probe of my ThermoWorks Smoke which allowed me to run the machine with the basket cover on (theory to keep the heat in). I placed it in the bottom of the basket so water could fully run over it. Also with and without carafe. Allowing the hot water to also accumulate in the basket a little rather than simply running right out. My temps reported showed it both ways. IOW no real difference. BTW I am running it on a dedicated 20 amp circuit to just the 2 outlets by my sink with a GFI breaker installed. (20 amp 12 ga wiring). That is the highest current circuit(s) I have in my kitchen. Well, IDK if the one my fridge is on is 20 amp or not. I know there are 3 dedicated circuits in the kitchen. One for the fridge one for dishwasher and one running either side of the sink. I guess I can try one of the other outlets but not sure it will make a difference. But perhaps after my blood work appt tomorrow I may need some "diversion" from that "trauma". I have terrible veins. I absolutely dread these 6 mos full blood panels :(
Anyway I will report back as soon as I have retested. I did a full cleaning on it as well about a month ago (descaling solution) hoping that may help it. No bueano. I guess the heating element might be getting just barely hot enough to push the water through but not with enough force. Though I can't help but think that would slow the brew process down, and it will brew a full tank of water in about 5 min. So, it's definitely getting through quickly enough.
I will reprt back the findings
 
OK...was a bit bored waiting for the Eagles game to start at 1625 so I tested temp. and brewing time of a full carafe which is 42.2 ozs. Temp coming out of the spray arm was 196-204+
It took 6 minutes 51 seconds to brew. Measured temp with my Thermapen and timed using stopwatch function on my phone.
I noticed a definite pattern to the water coming out of the 9 holes. There's a consistent pulse or surge where the hot water comes out with noticeably more force...then it subsides to more of a drip immediately followed by the surge or pulse again... throughout the entire process.
When it surges water comes out of all holes, when it drips
80%. +-.
I have no doubt all the grounds are getting saturated.
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Well, just to keep things on equal footing and try to eliminate discrepancies. I will measure when I do it tomorrow with both my ThermoPro Lighning which is calibrated similar to T/Works products and my Thermoworks Smoke probe as well. It would be nice to get to the bottom of why mine does not brew as effectively as others report here. If it needs a new element those are pretty straightforward to install and pretty cheap to buy as well. We shall see
 
Something interesting I just discovered. Go to 9:50 on the video. So sure enough I HAD to try it. It actually does this. Pretty darn amazing IMO :D

 
I never run mine with the tank or basket lid on so I just stuck my thromopop right under the shower head and it read between 198 and 202 for almost the whole brew. It jumped to 204 about a half dozen times for a second or two and then right back into the 198 to 202, never below 198.

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Now I do a manual bloom and I also never leave the machine as it brews. I hang out with a spoon to make sure the whole bed is evenly watered and here is what the grounds like like from the two pots I made this morning (yes it takes two whole pots just to start this family with teenagers started in the morning).
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The fact that I stand there for the whole brew process proves Larry's not wrong about the brew head system and makes me really think about trying the aftermarket distributor. Does hanging out over the brew process suck some times? Yes, but I want the best cup of coffee and that is the effort I think it takes to get it. I take a lot of time picking out which green coffee beans I buy. Then I roast them at home, really getting down different roast profiles to pull the best out of each bean, finding the best blends, resting them, and grinding them seconds before brewing. I have decided I do not do all of that to then let the machine have complete control over the coffee that is finally made. I view what I do as a large pot output hybrid drip machine/pour over process. Part of the reason I most likely wouldn't get the aftermarket distributor is I don't know if I would even trust it and most likely would still be there and make sure it brews perfectly. I love the coffee it produces and my Moccamaster isn't going anywhere anything soon.
However, I have really thought about this and if I was getting my mother in law or my daughter a high end coffee pot, I don't know if I would get them a Moccamaster because of the brew head issue. I don't expect them to take the same attention to detail as me and would absolutely look at the OXO and the Breville.
 
Michael Richards said:
I never run mine with the tank or basket lid on so I just stuck my thromopop right under the shower head and it read between 198 and 202 for almost the whole brew. It jumped to 204 about a half dozen times for a second or two and then right back into the 198 to 202, never below 198.

Now I do a manual bloom and I also never leave the machine as it brews. I hang out with a spoon to make sure the whole bed is evenly watered and here is what the grounds like like from the two pots I made this morning (yes it takes two whole pots just to start this family with teenagers started in the morning).

The fact that I stand there for the whole brew process proves Larry's not wrong about the brew head system and makes me really think about trying the aftermarket distributor. Does hanging out over the brew process suck some times? Yes, but I want the best cup of coffee and that is the effort I think it takes to get it. I take a lot of time picking out which green coffee beans I buy. Then I roast them at home, really getting down different roast profiles to pull the best out of each bean, finding the best blends, resting them, and grinding them seconds before brewing. I have decided I do not do all of that to then let the machine have complete control over the coffee that is finally made. I view what I do as a large pot output hybrid drip machine/pour over process. Part of the reason I most likely wouldn't get the aftermarket distributor is I don't know if I would even trust it and most likely would still be there and make sure it brews perfectly. I love the coffee it produces and my Moccamaster isn't going anywhere anything soon.
However, I have really thought about this and if I was getting my mother in law or my daughter a high end coffee pot, I don't know if I would get them a Moccamaster because of the brew head issue. I don't expect them to take the same attention to detail as me and would absolutely look at the OXO and the Breville.
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I really like this post, Michael. You describe your process, and why the effort works for you to produce the cup that you like.

In case anyone cares, here's my (current?) process for coffee in my Moccamaster (I've got a KBGT from just before they redesigned the thermal carafe.) I measure 66g of beans into the hopper of my KM5 grinder, while I'm grinding that, I pop the carafe under my bar sink tap (with my left hand) so I can fill the machine with 1L of water. Typically my grind and water fill end about the same time, so I flick the switch on the MM, get the grinds in the basket and onto the machine (usually just before the boiler spurts out the first gurgle of water.) I start with the drip-stop closed, and I do a slow rotation of the basket while the MM is gurgling out of the "spray" head for a full rotation (not quite 360° as the basket handle gets in the way.) At that point, I pop the top on the basket, open the drip-stop one click and go away.

This method brews the cup I like in the MM, and I find the effort reasonable for me. Considering that I have been known to spend 7 or more hours over two days to make a loaf of bread, this is pretty low effort in the grand scheme of things......and its all stuff I can do before I'm fully awake! :) Heck, if I don't want to wake anyone in the am with the grinder, some days I'll use the manual grinder (Orphan Espresso Lido) and an inverted Aeropress for a single cup! :) .....or, if I'm traveling, I'll use the Knock Aerogrind after I've got my collapsible electric boiler fired up. ....yes, I'm a bit obsessed with coffee..... Which reminds me, think I'll go make an after dinner shot with my Nanopresso from Wacaco..... 🤣

Whatever you feel you need to do to make the coffee you want with the effort you feel is appropriate......do that!

R
 
OK so as promised here are some pics and results from the machines. First is my basket from the Breville. Prior to going out to the docs this AM, I brewed only a very small amount as they wanted me fasting. So I had a 1/3rd cup of black and made enough for that and wife to have a cup.
Upon return, I did a 30oz of water brew and 50 grams of beans (the new Columbia Supremo med/dark from Sam's). I also decided to experimnet just a little and did a "my brew" setting. Parameters were water temp set to 205 (maybe 208 but at least 205), flow set to low and bloom time 40 sec. FWIW I think to my tastes the result was slightly over extracted though quite good. Tomorrow I intend to use same grind but Gold setting. Anyway result was nicely and fully wetted. With little or no "tunneling". Also another thing I plan on doing today is I am going to hook up plain water from my city supply (which is from Artesian wells) but run through a carbon block filter rather than the RO. Depending how far my project goes the results tomorrow may likely be from that water. I may even report my TDS reading from that water jusut for knowledge. I know I have tested my RO water for TDS and found it nearly 0. So this will be interesting. Now on to the Moccamaster temp test
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Again for consistency sake I used the small "ambient" probe that came with my ThermoWorks Smoke positioned in the bottom of the brew basket to be sure to get full wetting by the hot water discharge. And for curiosty, I ran my needle probe through the brew cap and into the bottom of a room temp carafe. Both read 72F before beginning which concides perfectly with my daytime home temps. However I did one thing differently. I plugged it into a different outlet (though on the same 20amp circuit) as the last test. The last test it was plugged into one of those wall plates to convert 2 into 6 and with USB. And with the ability to make everything "flat". So this is making me begin to doubt that device. As the temps you see reported are pretty close to 10 deg hotter than the previous test. So now as well I am wondering if my Breville is not performing to full potential either. There are only 2 outlets on the circuit. The one with the "adapter plate" the other with nothing but bare (new) outlet. Pictures are in order and you can see it sort of "peaked 199-201 and no lower than 198. Note though, I did a full tank of water, and the machine had brewed pretty much half that before it fully settled in the 196 to 201 range. For the first 1/3rd to 1/2 it was 194 to 197. Now for brewing purposes that is still nothing to quibble about. These are in order taken. The end one being after the final "burbble" went through. So quite honestly I almost (even though it is kind of wasted) want to brew a pot with no intervention of "blooming" and see what the unit does. If I do I will post as well


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So now curiosity got the better of me and I figured "well maybe I waste batch for science" So, only "unfair" thing here is the Breville only brewed 30oz. I brewed 40oz on MM. And as the photos show for the majority of the brew cycle water was just dribbling out not "flowing" from the shower head, and the one side of the grounds were totally dry for the majority of the brew cycle. It was not until the very end when they started to sort of "bubble" up from underneath. Though the majority of water was still only dribbling down the side closes to the tank. Also anouther little "eye opener". Plugged into the wall the Breville achieved full brew temps faster and held them more consistently staying right at 197-199, after the initial period for the first few oz of water at just shy of 190. Once the first few oz came through the discharge temp was very steady at 197-200. With in the carafe temp actually about 8 deg hotter than what I measured yesterday. So the lack of ability to sustain full voltage through that "adapter" plate is VERY telling. Bottom line done with those things. Anyway here is the sequence of a "brew" in the MM using a full 40oz. Had I done only 30oz as I did with the Breville the one side would have stayed totally dry as the full wetting did not take place until there were only about 8oz-10oz left in the water tank to go. But, I wanted to give the MM it's "best shot". Anyway here is the sequence. You can also tell in the last photo very little actual "flow" ended up on the grinds. So, yeah, a bit disappointing but expected.
So now both units had a fully "fair shot" at full voltage/current rather than passing through the convenience device I was using
Anyway now the kitchen smells like a coffee shop :D

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LMichaels said:
Also another thing I plan on doing today is I am going to hook up plain water from my city supply (which is from Artesian wells) but run through a carbon block filter rather than the RO. Depending how far my project goes the results tomorrow may likely be from that water. I may even report my TDS reading from that water jusut for knowledge. I know I have tested my RO water for TDS and found it nearly 0. So this will be interesting. Now on to the Moccamaster temp test
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Really interested to see if you notice any taste differences - I can't understand how it would make any changes in the brew process. I follow numerous water threads over at https://www.home-barista.com/ and they are a pretty serious group of coffee people - many industry experts and certainly some of the coffee elite in the world. Water quality/type etc comes up regularly there and has some serious discussions.

Coffee has a significant amount of potassium, so while pure RO/distilled water tastes very flat/dull, once you run it through the coffee, the beans themselves add minerals, which then of course creates a whole new solution - in effect, mineralizing the water. I find the topic very interesting. Drip, pourover, espresso all add different nuances on the topic as well...

Example....https://www.home-barista.com/water/rpavlis-water-and-filter-coffee-t74619.html
 
Wow Grant, that is pretty intense stuff there. I am just going to do it through a brand new carbon block filter tapped straight from my unsoftened supply. The area I live in is all fed by the same acquifier. Called the Kishwaukee aquifer. My understanding is it's an artesian (heavy limestone) type source. And is really (other than being hard as nails) an extremely good, clean source of water. So, work will begin shortly on the plumbing change. I am hoping I can rig it so I can easily switch the sink dispencer between RO and plain hard water filtered. We shall see. I don't intend to "waste" a pot of brew tomorrow as I did today (PS don't tell my wife she'll lay a hurt on me) :D
But, I will give an honest assesment of my "take" on taste, aroma, brew speed and so on. Stay tuned
 
LMichaels said:
Could you measure the length of the shower arm? And maybe photograph the underside?
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Length of the spray arm? The CDT Grand arm just extends to the center of the filter basket lid with a single hole. The lid has a circular area about 1.25-1.5" in diameter with a couple of dozen small holes to drip through to the grounds? The arm doesn't control the pattern of water over the grounds, the lid does.

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This pic doesn't really show the small through holes inside the "fence" but does show how the lid is molded.
 
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