Technivorm Moccamaster Coffee Machine


 
OK, as promised I have replumbed my RO and filtered lines to the following. https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...1-ss4-s06/p-1444450662016-c-1535732895503.htm this feediing into a second inline carbon filter like this https://www.menards.com/main/applia...p-1501761042026-c-1525097549555.htm?exp=false which gives the water a final "polish" to it's taste and aroma. Which quite honestly now is really quite nice. No chlorine taste/odor, very clean taste really as good as best bottled water I have found. I then ran my TDS meter on water from my new setup, then on Ice Mountain natural spring water from Michigan, and finally on San Pellegrino which is bottled in northern Itally outside Brescia in the mountains there. Results are rather interesting The readings from the San Pellegrino were a little "flaky" I think due to the "bubbles" but I got a decent avg from it
First Ice Mountain TDS as shown in photo(s)
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Now my own filtered water running as described

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Then San Pellegrino

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JKalchik said:
Length of the spray arm? The CDT Grand arm just extends to the center of the filter basket lid with a single hole. The lid has a circular area about 1.25-1.5" in diameter with a couple of dozen small holes to drip through to the grounds? The arm doesn't control the pattern of water over the grounds, the lid does.

View attachment 83170
This pic doesn't really show the small through holes inside the "fence" but does show how the lid is molded.
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Well that is interesting. So, even the company seems to possibly realize the method they use may not be the most efficient on the smaller machine(s).
 
OK, so I think the slightly reduced performance (temps) of both the Moccamaster and the Breville, might just have been caused by this. Yes I used it in a dedicated 20 amp service line but in looking inside it I have to wonder. As when plugged directly into the outlet, both machines exhibited higher temps faster and more sustained with no drop off on the temps through the brew cycles. Really got me thinking. Give it a look and see.

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All you could really do is measure the voltage at the terminals with/without the power-bar and see if there is a difference (no load). Then, perhaps there is something happening under load that is causing a voltage drop - in which case you would have to measure while the coffee maker is brewing as well. It looks like a single set of wires going to all terminals on each side, so all terminals should read the same voltage per side - i.e. you could measure voltage on any pair on the side to read the voltage.
 
GrantT said:
All you could really do is measure the voltage at the terminals with/without the power-bar and see if there is a difference (no load). Then, perhaps there is something happening under load that is causing a voltage drop - in which case you would have to measure while the coffee maker is brewing as well. It looks like a single set of wires going to all terminals on each side, so all terminals should read the same voltage per side - i.e. you could measure voltage on any pair on the side to read the voltage.
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Yeah, except I see a "cause and effect". Just seeing the performance difference is proof enough for me this thing is limiting power. I mean just check the wiring and such in there. To fit that all in it's 16ga where as the outlets are in 12 ga. and heck these appliances have pretty darn heavy cords so they do draw some juice. Bottom line not even gonna bother with it. I will use it where I don't have such power hungry appliances needing every watt they can get. Have to live with the limitations or somehow fit a proper 4 outlet one in there. But, I would have to cut drywall and all kind of other grief. MEH. Problems with an older house before all type of power hungry appliances
 
I am not sure what you mean by "yeah except"...I am not contradicting anything you said - you asked for people to "Give a look and see". No doubt you found a concern for sure.

By measuring the voltage, you would get the actual numerical proof. Does the converter have any electrical spec's printed right on it?
 
GrantT said:
I am not sure what you mean by "yeah except"...I am not contradicting anything you said - you asked for people to "Give a look and see". No doubt you found a concern for sure.

By measuring the voltage, you would get the actual numerical proof. Does the converter have any electrical spec's printed right on it?
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It was not meant the way you took it. I only meant it that as far as I was concerned I had found a "smoking gun". I just did not feel it was worth the extra effort (being a but of a lazy old fart :D) That was all. It was not meant in a contradictory way at all. It's just my "language pattern". I just did not see a need to take it further. Though I still don't have an answer to the pathetic water distribution. What I was hoping to see is water being discharged forcefully enough to fully wet the basket right away and keep on doing so not just the initial "burst" it puts out.
And I appreciate the input BTW. There are specs on that thing. Claims to be capable of 15 amps. What I could not find though is "in what way". IOW is it a solid 15 amp continuous? Seeing the tiny components and the 16ga wiring "distributing" the power gives me real cause for concern that it may pass 15 amps but at what kind of voltage ( or current) drop under sustained high current draw. Which is why I just made the decision to remove it and just not use it.
Anyway don't take me wrong. Appreciate the suggestion and if I get to feeling really ambitious tomorrow..................again, I may play around and see what I can dig up. But, I have so much on my plate to mess with this week IDK if I will get time.
But also another thing I wonder about. Say I put the thing back on the outlet. Plug in a coffee maker and run it. I don't have a way to measure current flowing through it. I only have a standard old Fluke VOM with milliamp readout.
I guess I could watch voltage, but not sure if it would tell me the whole story. IDk, let me see what tomorrow brings me for the day.
 
Yeah, 16ga wiring cannot sustain 15A safely I believe.

You don't really need to measure the current, only the voltage really. The circuit will try draw more current if it gets a lower voltage to make up the power. This is why power brownouts to a home are so destructive - devices draw more current, overheat, blow fuses etc. If there is a voltage drop across the power bar you'll be losing power on the machine like you are seeing that with the temps too (just like in the old days when an incandescent light bulb would dim on a heavy use circuit). The problem is, as the current increases, the power bar starts to get hotter and hotter until it likely melts down. Was really just a curiosity and probably not worth your time.

As to why the water flow issue? If these machines "push" the water out via pressure from the heated water, does it kind of make sense that if you are experiencing lower temps/heating, there would be a related reduction in the force the water is experiencing being pushed out of the boiler area and up the flow tube (or whatever they call it)...and perhaps it is then not being pushed as far out into the drip head? I know scale buildup can cause this, but perhaps low power too?

Being an "old guy", you probably understand the dribbling vs full flow experience! :LOL:
 
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So, that is the quandary to me. By removing the "adapter" I got higher temps faster and more sustained in both brewers. But the MM did not improve it's flow. Now, getting back to the outlet. If I measure say 120 in the naked outlet, then try running one of the brewers, and running on the the plain outlet I then measure say 115V while brewing, then that should be assumed to be a "normal" voltage drop?
Now I use the same brewer but use it on that adapter. Then under same usage I see a voltage of say 112 while brewing. Can I then deduce the brewer is now pulling more power than that circuitry can provide?
 
DanHoo said:
Yes, I think so.

Edit. 5% is the limit, so 6 volt drop is max.

I can measure mine tomorrow for comparison.
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Cool thanks. I will use the Moccamaster for the test. IDK what the wattage rating is on it. I now the Breville is 1650 watts so nearly 14 amps. I have to assume the MM is gonna be close to that.
What I noticed running on the outlet expander was when I testing the temps it would sort of "ramp up" to temp but not hold it as steady. Now plugged directly in, temp came right up to the 196 and held right in there not dropping lower and stayed within 4 deg (196-200). Noticed the same running the Breville
 
All I can offer relative to electricity and the Moccamaster is that my wife was insistent on hiding the thick black power cord. I tried cord winder hider things from Amazon...the Moccamaster power cord is to thick and not flexible. It didn't work. So against my better judgment, I cut the cord 8" or so and reconnected it at the coffee makers base. It's got to be 14 ga power cord. It's thick.
 
LMichaels said:
Cool thanks. I will use the Moccamaster for the test. IDK what the wattage rating is on it. I now the Breville is 1650 watts so nearly 14 amps. I have to assume the MM is gonna be close to that.
What I noticed running on the outlet expander was when I testing the temps it would sort of "ramp up" to temp but not hold it as steady. Now plugged directly in, temp came right up to the 196 and held right in there not dropping lower and stayed within 4 deg (196-200). Noticed the same running the Breville
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This one looks like it will solve your coffee problems🤣
VINCI RDT 12 Cup Coffee Maker, with Patented Spinning Spray Head Technology, Bloom Setting, Brew to Pause, Stainless Steel Fully Programmable Electric Coffee Maker https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BBPCJHX1/?tag=tvwb-20
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
All I can offer relative to electricity and the Moccamaster is that my wife was insistent on hiding the thick black power cord. I tried cord winder hider things from Amazon...the Moccamaster power cord is to thick and not flexible. It didn't work. So against my better judgment, I cut the cord 8" or so and reconnected it at the coffee makers base. It's got to be 14 ga power cord. It's thick.
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Yeah, the Breville's cord is 14ga and shorter than the MM. I am watching for that voltage drop reading. If I get time today to mess around I will give the MM here a measure. I gotta find some probes though for my Fluke that I can sneak into the outlet blades. I had lost the leads for it and bought a set of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SD3L9HR/?tag=tvwb-20 and I just now looked at the photos and the tip protector comes off. If I knew that sooner it would have saved me soooooooooo much trouble when I was rewiring my tractor and doing a few other projects. Things you learn LOL
Anyway I will try and get drop readings with and without the plug expander.
 
LMichaels said:
I saw that on YouTube. What a laugh. Total gimmick. Stick a weird head on a $29 brewer and charge $99 :D
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There are more and more machines being offered on Amazon.
Many are clearly trying to mimic Moccamaster in appearance and allege equal brewing temps and speeds. One has also taken an additional approach to gain some market traction and exposure:
Simply Good Coffee - Olson Coffee Brewer, 8 Cup Coffee Brewer, Perfect Coffee Every time https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BCJMMSNN/?tag=tvwb-20

These guys are running a trial "dealership" type program reaching out to smaller local and regional roasters and coffee shops to demo this machine for potential sales distribution.
The CEO comes from an essentially defunct company called Espresso Supply out of Washington state. They were the initial distributor for Bonavita machines. They briefly branched out with a different line called Motif. The Motif machines were rebadged Melittas and were excellent machines. I bought two at about $45 each. Brewed to SCA Golden Cup standard and had a bloom function...just like this Simply Good model. Notable similarities:
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OK, I took some time out this AM. I put the Fluke in the wall outlet, measured 121.5 V. I loaded up the Moccamaster and turned it on. I made a video showing not only the "dribbling" water pattern dropping primarily to one side but also showing voltage drop was only 2 to 2.4 volts and at the end popping right up to the 121.5. So, IDK what to think about it. I also took temp of discharge water (not shown in video) but it was 198-201 IOW right on spec. So per my observations yesterday. If you make a full 40oz water eventually the water will "tunnel" under the grounds finally just "wetting" the other side. But on a "Normal" AM brew for wife and I, we only make 32oz or so. So, the water never reaches the other side of the brew basket. The video shows this, and shows as well it is not a power issue nor a temp issue. By comparison, nothing special on the Breville. Did the grind, dumped in dry filter, slapped it in and off it went to Gold setting. When done the remains were fully and evenly wetted and brewed to very nice result. I can get that result with MM (if I stand there "blooming it". So honestly I think it's a design issue. BTW in both cases I use the recommended grind and amounts of coffee to water.

 
My OXO Brew-8, right around the same wattage, drops the outlet voltage from 122.7 down to 120 whenever the boiler kicks in...just for your reference.

If you go search the home-barista.com forums as well, you can find numerous threads on the moccamaster and shower screen mods etc.

Relevant --> ? https://www.home-barista.com/brewing/shower-head-insert-for-technivorm-moccamaster-t75507.html

Here's a pricey little upgrade I saw in a Youtube video....

https://www.artisansmith.com.au/products/shower-head-for-moccamaster
 
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