Technivorm Moccamaster Coffee Machine


 
Build quality and simplicity of design are two major features of the Moccamaster.
I don't doubt the Breville is solid but it sounds like a lot of electronics going on...long term reliability would be a possible concern.
People swear by the bloom feature on machines. I have it and used it on the Motif Essentials that's my backup...bot I can't taste the difference when I manually perform it with the Moccamaster.
I imagine it's all about individual taste and expectations.
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
Build quality and simplicity of design are two major features of the Moccamaster.
I don't doubt the Breville is solid but it sounds like a lot of electronics going on...long term reliability would be a possible concern.
People swear by the bloom feature on machines. I have it and used it on the Motif Essentials that's my backup...bot I can't taste the difference when I manually perform it with the Moccamaster.
I imagine it's all about individual taste and expectations.
Click to expand...
If I don't perform that on the MM, the coffee while "good" is just not fully "developed". IDK another way to describe it. My suspicion is though, if you're lucky enough that for whatever reason you have a MM that fully wets the grounds count yourself among the fortunate ones. I just have too many things distracting me in the AM to "deal" with babysitting a coffee maker. I have blood sugar readings, blood pressure readings and weight to record, meds and one or 2 injections to take all while an impatient wife wants her caffeine fix :D So, it means an AWFUL lot to me to be able to grind, dump, and go while I take care of the myriad other things to do.
As for reliability in the case of my MM and of my Breville both are machines I could not justify (at least for a trial run) to buy as brand new. I managed to find both from estate sales while the OXO I purchased brand new (from Amazon IIRC but again not absolutely sure). So I was able to buy both inexpensively enough that if they became my long term solution to my needs I would not feel badly dropping the $300+ and going "all in"
And FWIW the Breville I found is apparently from 2018 and still functions as brand new and looks nearly as good. Everything is still tight fitting, and clicks together perfectly. The PID electronics function perfectly as well. So I have no doubt it would be a good long term investment should I decide to go that route. As well as a Moccamaster for that matter.
But, again there, I see so many people online who get the same result as me, that I know investing in another one brand new would not solve the issue.
Who knows why I have the issue. I have tried everything I can think of or people have told me (descale it, try different beans, try different grind levels, try different water, etc, etc) The only way I have found to have it wet evenly is to grind down to espresso level grind. Which creates another issue (a mess), and muddy coffee.
So far while not a perfect cup........................yet, the Breville seems to be able to offer me the flexibility to reliably make the cup I want.
But also understand in speaking of "build quality" I am taking more into account than just whether or not I see it as like a vault. I am looking at how "polished" it is. And with all it's ancillary pieces and bits I personally just find the MM a little Rube Goldbergish in a way. I'm not meaning it as cheaply made just too many little "bits and pieces". But I have no doubts about it's "quality" or longevity.
 
So I stumbled onto this video this morning. I find the guy pretty annoying and somewhat "over the top" in some of his descriptions, but he hits on some of what I was trying to get across re my assessment of my feelings re the 3 coffee makers (although the only commonality is the Breville and Moccamaster) as I never owned a Zwilling machine. But he does sort of hit on my feelings. One thing he does note is how the MM sort of "flattens" out taste wise when approaching a full pot. He did not mention it but perhaps it's due to the same observations I have re with my usage and my typically making 35oz to 40oz daily which is close to a full pot.
Anyway just something I saw this AM
 
LMichaels said:
So I stumbled onto this video this morning. I find the guy pretty annoying and somewhat "over the top" in some of his descriptions, but he hits on some of what I was trying to get across re my assessment of my feelings re the 3 coffee makers (although the only commonality is the Breville and Moccamaster) as I never owned a Zwilling machine. But he does sort of hit on my feelings. One thing he does note is how the MM sort of "flattens" out taste wise when approaching a full pot. He did not mention it but perhaps it's due to the same observations I have re with my usage and my typically making 35oz to 40oz daily which is close to a full pot.
Anyway just something I saw this AM
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This dude is all over the board. His nitpicking of the Moccamaster is silly. Glue the floor plate to the machine...problem solved. I've never used the lid without the funnel it sits in the drawer. It's only intended for transporting a full carafe.
His Yeti mug keeps coffee hotter than the Breville carafe? BS.
You have to slide or push the brew basket with your grounds into every drip maker...some do it differently than others He moans about extra steps but has no problem with turning dials on the Zwilling. Also, I wonder how that painted black finish will look on that Zwilling in 2 years.
He should stick to roasting coffee and drinking it...probably from his $60 Cuisinart.

The review was over after he tasted the coffee...which machine brewed the best tasting coffee? The end.
Oh, and his "Cuisinaire" brews better coffee than a Breville?? Yeah, OK.
 
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Jay D in Jersey said:
This dude is all over the board. His nitpicking of the Moccamaster is silly. Glue the floor plate to the machine...problem solved. I've never used the lid without the funnel it sits in the drawer. It's only intended for transporting a full carafe.
His Yeti mug keeps coffee hotter than the Breville carafe? BS.
You have to slide or push the brew basket with your grounds into every drip maker...some do it differently than others He moans about extra steps but has no problem with turning dials on the Zwilling. Also, I wonder how that painted black finish will look on that Zwilling in 2 years.
He should stick to roasting coffee and drinking it...probably from his $60 Cuisinart.
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I honestly did not mean to take him "seriously", but yeah, petty gripes in a way, but none the less, it's a little of how I feel using the MM. Though honestly in a weird sort of way some of the stuff was sort of "fun". Though it was a little "old" by this time.
In any case biggest issue for me was/is water flow. Seems many have this issue but not all. I still don't know or understand why this discrepancy exists. I don't think it's water "type" as now I have tried it with everything from bottled "spring" water, to RO and then filtered artesian well (currently using). The only other variable.................is altitude and or barometric pressure. Which does and could effect at what temp the water would boil enough in the heating element to "pump" it through and at what speed it does so. Otherwise I am stumped as to why myself and so many others have partially dry beds of grounds if brewed without standing there, holding the safety switch and forcing it to fill the brew basket. And like the clown in the vid, I notice this only when using a full (or close to full) brew basket. If I only brew a couple cups.....not an issue at all. Why? IDK
Although one other variable comes to mind. Maybe mfg tolerances in the opening at bottom of brew basket? Could some drains be larger than others? Having the effect of allowing water to pass through too quickly in some cases? In any case because the Breville relies on an actual pump along with a wider spread shower head so it does not have this issue. IDK, again these are theories and I am not a scientist LOL.
In any case. If it's simply a grind, dump and brew as our AMs typically are. The MM (at least in my home) is not brewing to it's potential. Whereas the Breville in this case (because of it's design and settings flexibility) can come to full potential by simply grind, dump and brew on a consistent basis.
I have tried using the MM lid with funnel only and tested how well it keeps the heat. Answer is the funnel lid does not keep heat very well, whereas the actual sealed lid does WAY better (to it's credit the difference can be measured in hours. The "lid" will keep things hot about 2 hours longer as "measured" with thermometer. But, then my only real "gripe" with the Breville is the coffee does not stay nearly as hot as the MM carafe keeps. Once coffee gets to 45 min to 1 hour in the Breville I have to take it to Uncle Mike (microwave). Though I think this is a function of why I like the Breville carafe a little better. So much easier to keep cleaned. Because of the wide mouth can fit my hand in with a soapy sponge and simply wash daily. But that wide mouth also allows for greater and more rapid heat loss The MM, and the OXO much harder to keep cleaned. Needing to rely on long handled brush and or every few days putting in some dishwasher detergent and allowing to sit over night with that. Hard? No. But a different more of a "deliberate" project none the less.
Anyway I did not link the vid to get your dander up (which sadly it did). It was not meant to. Only to illustrate (even though the guy is a clown) in a graphical way a couple of my misgivings with the MM. Nothing more.
 
LMichaels said:
I honestly did not mean to take him "seriously", but yeah, petty gripes in a way, but none the less, it's a little of how I feel using the MM. Though honestly in a weird sort of way some of the stuff was sort of "fun". Though it was a little "old" by this time.
In any case biggest issue for me was/is water flow. Seems many have this issue but not all. I still don't know or understand why this discrepancy exists. I don't think it's water "type" as now I have tried it with everything from bottled "spring" water, to RO and then filtered artesian well (currently using). The only other variable.................is altitude and or barometric pressure. Which does and could effect at what temp the water would boil enough in the heating element to "pump" it through and at what speed it does so. Otherwise I am stumped as to why myself and so many others have partially dry beds of grounds if brewed without standing there, holding the safety switch and forcing it to fill the brew basket. And like the clown in the vid, I notice this only when using a full (or close to full) brew basket. If I only brew a couple cups.....not an issue at all. Why? IDK
Although one other variable comes to mind. Maybe mfg tolerances in the opening at bottom of brew basket? Could some drains be larger than others? Having the effect of allowing water to pass through too quickly in some cases? In any case because the Breville relies on an actual pump along with a wider spread shower head so it does not have this issue. IDK, again these are theories and I am not a scientist LOL.
In any case. If it's simply a grind, dump and brew as our AMs typically are. The MM (at least in my home) is not brewing to it's potential. Whereas the Breville in this case (because of it's design and settings flexibility) can come to full potential by simply grind, dump and brew on a consistent basis.
I have tried using the MM lid with funnel only and tested how well it keeps the heat. Answer is the funnel lid does not keep heat very well, whereas the actual sealed lid does WAY better (to it's credit the difference can be measured in hours. The "lid" will keep things hot about 2 hours longer as "measured" with thermometer. But, then my only real "gripe" with the Breville is the coffee does not stay nearly as hot as the MM carafe keeps. Once coffee gets to 45 min to 1 hour in the Breville I have to take it to Uncle Mike (microwave). Though I think this is a function of why I like the Breville carafe a little better. So much easier to keep cleaned. Because of the wide mouth can fit my hand in with a soapy sponge and simply wash daily. But that wide mouth also allows for greater and more rapid heat loss The MM, and the OXO much harder to keep cleaned. Needing to rely on long handled brush and or every few days putting in some dishwasher detergent and allowing to sit over night with that. Hard? No. But a different more of a "deliberate" project none the less.
Anyway I did not link the vid to get your dander up (which sadly it did). It was not meant to. Only to illustrate (even though the guy is a clown) in a graphical way a couple of my misgivings with the MM. Nothing more.
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No dander up here. Just call em' as I see em'. He tastes the coffee brewed from all machines and the Moccamaster is his choice for the best cup. Game over...video should have ended there.
As far as carafes holding temperature...that will vary by user. Some brew a pot and sip all morning long. Some brew and take it to go. Some brew and have 1-2 cups and done. So that's a personal thing.
The Breville looks like a beast of a machine and if I were still working and commuting, I'd own one for the programmability...but those days are over, thankfully and I enjoy the ritual of grinding and brewing every AM after walking the dogs.
 
Yeah, I agree the guy is a putz, Like indicated I only used the video to illustrate my 2 frustrations with an otherwise REALLY good brewer (the MM). But, I gotta say I am really enjoying the Breville. Enough so, I think if this used one were to crap out on me I would definitely pop for a brand new one.
 
LMichaels said:
Yeah, I agree the guy is a putz, Like indicated I only used the video to illustrate my 2 frustrations with an otherwise REALLY good brewer (the MM). But, I gotta say I am really enjoying the Breville. Enough so, I think if this used one were to crap out on me I would definitely pop for a brand new one.
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Fact is... The guy claims to be a chef....but he's confusing chef with cook...he's a cook. A Greek diner cook at best. Think..m"Pepsi...no coke. Cheeseburger special." Greek diners were necessary and mostly disgusting. Consider the source here.
 
So I have discovered a "My Brew" setting on the Breville I am kind of liking for this particular (Colombian Supremo med/dark roast) bean I bought at Sam's. Actually making a very nice brew.
I set, it up for 40 sec, bloom, 196 temp, medium flow and cone filter. Of course that is with 40 oz water and 68 grams of beans on a med/med coarse grind. It comes out very aromatic, nice rich flavor, nice strength without the over extraction notes of bitterness (or sharpness) that sometimes happens. Actually liking this thing more and more. The level of control is nice especially that since once you have the "setting" it remembers so you can make it the same every time.
So, it is as easy as fill it, grind beans, select the brew, push the start button and walk away.
One thing I noticed on how it brews on Gold setting is on larger amounts of water (anywhere from 30 oz and more) on Gold there is no bloom. It simply goes into a brew. (water temp running right about 200, pump speed just a tad faster than medium but not as fast as fast).
But if you brew under 30oz (and here is the kicker). I have no idea how it knows it's under 30oz unless there is some type of sensor. Anyway under 30oz and it does everything almost the same EXCEPT it does a 30 sec bloom cycle.
weird indeed. But kinda cool.
The reason I purchased both the MM and this "used" is with both being $300 new I did not want to take that large a "gamble". So this allowed me to test run the machine type. Allowing me to determine which I would spend the $$$ on for new. Since I made larger gambles on my OXO Brew, and the Zojirushi and was disappointed by the brew on the Zojirushi (loved the carafe though) and the reliability of the OXO.
 
Just brewed a pot of this which was a gift from my daughter and son in law for babysitting our granddaughter for a few days...win/win for us!
Coffee was quite good too.
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So in keeping with what I noticed about the MM not really wetting the beans fully. Check this video of what they say you need to do to get "good" cup from it. Crazy.
 
LMichaels said:
So in keeping with what I noticed about the MM not really wetting the beans fully. Check this video of what they say you need to do to get "good" cup from it. Crazy.
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Ha. There's the difference. The cover on the filter basket goes over the water arm. On my CDT Grand, the cover is actually a spreader and does a much better dispersal over the grounds than shown in the video.
 
JKalchik said:
Ha. There's the difference. The cover on the filter basket goes over the water arm. On my CDT Grand, the cover is actually a spreader and does a much better dispersal over the grounds than shown in the video.
Click to expand...
Shoot a photo of that. I am having a hard time imagining it
 
LMichaels said:
So in keeping with what I noticed about the MM not really wetting the beans fully. Check this video of what they say you need to do to get "good" cup from it. Crazy.
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Following those steps might brew a better cup...I'll never know because I'm not jumping through that many hoops for my AM pot.
Plus my brew basket is fixed in place, there's no rotating it. I've never tossed the spent grounds where they were not completely soaked.
 
I measure beans on a scale because it's easier than counting scoops and not having to count to 7 or 9 or whatever before I've had coffee is a win in my book.

No reason to weigh water. I fill it to the line, turn pot on and about 5 1/2 mins later I have coffee.

I've got plenty of other time sucking things to attend to and don't want to make coffee a chore.
 
LMichaels said:
Shoot a photo of that. I am having a hard time imagining it
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tvwbb.com

Technivorm Moccamaster Coffee Machine

My mocca master. Yes...that's how mine looks. I've pretty much given up on stopping the brewing process for 30 seconds for the so-called bloom. I taste zero difference when doing it. I've got my grind setting dialed in at 19-20 on the Baratza Encore and with the Delonghi Ariete in the other...
tvwbb.com tvwbb.com

That's the post with the lid image. I'll see if I can remember to take a pic of the brewed grounds in the next couple of days.
 
JKalchik said:
tvwbb.com

Technivorm Moccamaster Coffee Machine

My mocca master. Yes...that's how mine looks. I've pretty much given up on stopping the brewing process for 30 seconds for the so-called bloom. I taste zero difference when doing it. I've got my grind setting dialed in at 19-20 on the Baratza Encore and with the Delonghi Ariete in the other...
tvwbb.com tvwbb.com

That's the post with the lid image. I'll see if I can remember to take a pic of the brewed grounds in the next couple of days.
Click to expand...
Well that IS interesting.
Yeah weighing water? Nah. Gimme a break. Also I realized my brew basket cannot be rotated. It nestles into the bracket in such a way, you cannot rotate it. Maybe because mine is a thermal carafe brewer. In any case if I don't want to stand there, holding in the white safety switch waiting for the brew basket to get enough water in it to wet all the grounds then stand there waiting for 30-40 seconds to bloom. The why would I go through all the trouble of half filling the water tank, then doing a fake brew to simply wet the filter...............then go through all this other trouble................sorry not this kid. When the boss wants her coffee if she saw me doing all that she would beat me with the coffee pot :D As it is, she complains that I grind it fresh in the AM :D
 
I'm also not getting the part where you brew a pot without coffee to wet/ rinse the filter. That's what my sink and tap are for. I don't use filtered water either...straight out of the tap after letting it run for 5-10 seconds. I also tried and found folding the filters along the pleats to be a completely useless step...no matter what brand of filter.
I tried using filtered water from the refrigerators in both houses...same make and model...no taste difference. I fill the tank with water using a plastic pitcher.

Here's a clip from Moccamaster that explains how mine works perfectly.


Actually, there's quite a bit of useful information and answers to a lot of questions on the Moccamaster site.
us.moccamaster.com

How to Make the Perfect Cup of Coffee with a Moccamaster

Learn how to make a perfect cup of coffee with your Moccamaster Coffee Brewer in this step-by-step guide. From selecting the right beans and grind size to dialing in the brew time and water temperature, we'll cover everything you need to know to achieve a delicious, balanced cup of coffee.
us.moccamaster.com us.moccamaster.com
 
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