Technivorm Moccamaster Coffee Machine


 
Jay D in Jersey said:
I'm also not getting the part where you brew a pot without coffee to wet/ rinse the filter. That's what my sink and tap are for. I don't use filtered water either...straight out of the tap after letting it run for 5-10 seconds. I also tried and found folding the filters along the pleats to be a completely useless step...no matter what brand of filter.
I tried using filtered water from the refrigerators in both houses...same make and model...no taste difference. I fill the tank with water using a plastic pitcher.

Here's a clip from Moccamaster that explains how mine works perfectly.


Actually, there's quite a bit of useful information and answers to a lot of questions on the Moccamaster site.
us.moccamaster.com

How to Make the Perfect Cup of Coffee with a Moccamaster

Learn how to make a perfect cup of coffee with your Moccamaster Coffee Brewer in this step-by-step guide. From selecting the right beans and grind size to dialing in the brew time and water temperature, we'll cover everything you need to know to achieve a delicious, balanced cup of coffee.
us.moccamaster.com us.moccamaster.com
Click to expand...
Actually that video did not approach it. however I get "in theory" their method. Just seems like mine as well as so many other MM users does not seem to work the way the MM gods intended. Because if I simply put the filter in (fully clean and descaled machine) RO water or simply well filtered municipal water from our village artesian wells (but well filtered to remove the chlorine smell/taste and other nastiness the feds make them inject), add coffee (trying everything from nearly espresso grind to nearly French press grind) and everything in between, and simply turn it on, every time I remove the brew basket, I have partially dry grounds.
And with so many people looking for ways to avoid that on the internet/YouTube and so on. And products beginning to show up as aftermarket, it tells me I am not the only one afflicted with this. And frustrated by it.
I know that folks who don't have this issue shake their heads at people like me and figure it's operator error, dirty machine, wrong grind, wrong water, wrong coffee, etc. All I can say is this many people can't be doing all that many things "wrong".
I even called MM about it. I got everything from wrong roast, wrong grind, dirty machine, wrong water, wrong filters, etc. You name it and their tech people said I did it wrong.
In any case it really frustrates me. Because I know if I stand there, allowing the brew basket to fill and fully saturate the grounds, steep about 30 seconds and finish the brew that comes out is on another level of good entirely. And with so many people raving about how good it is, I know I am missing out on having a simple high quality AM brew :(
And also this is with FOUR different grinders using all kind of different settings from quite coarse to almost powder and everything in between. I even tried making sure I measured the machine for "level" outlet water temp, and even tried shimming the water tank side slightly hoping to force more water toward the end of the spray arm.
I think I've exhausted everything.
I guess I could order a new heating element, and install that, but gotta wonder "to what end"? I mean, what could that do? The water is heating up fast and to perfect temps. SCA and MM spec'd temps right on the nose.
Ahh well....................found and tried a new bean today. I will post elsewhere in the "what's in your grinder" thread.
 
LMichaels said:
Actually that video did not approach it. however I get "in theory" their method. Just seems like mine as well as so many other MM users does not seem to work the way the MM gods intended. Because if I simply put the filter in (fully clean and descaled machine) RO water or simply well filtered municipal water from our village artesian wells (but well filtered to remove the chlorine smell/taste and other nastiness the feds make them inject), add coffee (trying everything from nearly espresso grind to nearly French press grind) and everything in between, and simply turn it on, every time I remove the brew basket, I have partially dry grounds.
And with so many people looking for ways to avoid that on the internet/YouTube and so on. And products beginning to show up as aftermarket, it tells me I am not the only one afflicted with this. And frustrated by it.
I know that folks who don't have this issue shake their heads at people like me and figure it's operator error, dirty machine, wrong grind, wrong water, wrong coffee, etc. All I can say is this many people can't be doing all that many things "wrong".
I even called MM about it. I got everything from wrong roast, wrong grind, dirty machine, wrong water, wrong filters, etc. You name it and their tech people said I did it wrong.
In any case it really frustrates me. Because I know if I stand there, allowing the brew basket to fill and fully saturate the grounds, steep about 30 seconds and finish the brew that comes out is on another level of good entirely. And with so many people raving about how good it is, I know I am missing out on having a simple high quality AM brew :(
And also this is with FOUR different grinders using all kind of different settings from quite coarse to almost powder and everything in between. I even tried making sure I measured the machine for "level" outlet water temp, and even tried shimming the water tank side slightly hoping to force more water toward the end of the spray arm.
I think I've exhausted everything.
I guess I could order a new heating element, and install that, but gotta wonder "to what end"? I mean, what could that do? The water is heating up fast and to perfect temps. SCA and MM spec'd temps right on the nose.
Ahh well....................found and tried a new bean today. I will post elsewhere in the "what's in your grinder" thread.
Click to expand...
I can understand your frustration and clearly you're not the only one. It's a bit of a mystery why you end up with dry grounds.
Moccamaster is certainly not the only game in town for a great pot of coffee. I've had two others that made excellent coffee...the Motif and another one called a Gevi...admittedly though, they both are/were knockoffs of Moccamaster. But they did brew to SCA standards. The Motif is still in our garage in the Moccamaster box. The Gevi lasted 4 months and died. What I do know is all three brewed better coffee than any Cuisinart, Krups or Braun we've ever owned.
We've owned two of those all in one machines too. A Cuisinart with a blade grinder and a Capresso Team Pro which had a built-in burr grinder. Decent coffee but high maintenance for both.
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
I can understand your frustration and clearly you're not the only one. It's a bit of a mystery why you end up with dry grounds.
Moccamaster is certainly not the only game in town for a great pot of coffee. I've had two others that made excellent coffee...the Motif and another one called a Gevi...admittedly though, they both are/were knockoffs of Moccamaster. But they did brew to SCA standards. The Motif is still in our garage in the Moccamaster box. The Gevi lasted 4 months and died. What I do know is all three brewed better coffee than any Cuisinart, Krups or Braun we've ever owned.
We've owned two of those all in one machines too. A Cuisinart with a blade grinder and a Capresso Team Pro which had a built-in burr grinder. Decent coffee but high maintenance for both.
Click to expand...
My benchmark machine is that OXO Brew 9 cup machine. The only thing that's come close is the Breville (for simply turning it on and brewing). Honestly frustrated enough that I might just get yet another new carafe for the OXO and pull it out of "retirement" (it still sits in a cabinet in my basement). IDK how much a new carafe would cost LOL. Though quite honestly the Breville REALLY just about hits it on the head. I did a Gold setting brew today with a new Sumatran coffee I found at Costco. I used the Gold setting rather than "My Brew" so I had at least a "benchmark" and honestly is a REALLY good cup. Kind of almost chocolate flavors. Not at all harsh. It (the Breville) and the coffee gave me a nice smooth tasting brew!
 
I wonder if I could simply use that cover on my MM? Maybe I'll see if I can buy one from MM if not too expensive. What's the worst thing? I waste a few $$$?
 
Well, I am not sure which exact model you have I know it's one of the large ones. Anyway they now show the same brewing basket, spray arm and basket cover as the smaller MM. So weird
 
LMichaels said:
Weird. I was looking that model up and it looks like the same basket and arm as the smaller ones now. Wonder if they changed it?
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I think there are different brew baskets and shower arms for different models. Also, the newer Grand models have the 9 hole dimpled shower arm....mine have the flat 9 hole arms. Newest have the glass lined stainless carafes.
 
LMichaels said:
I wonder if I could simply use that cover on my MM? Maybe I'll see if I can buy one from MM if not too expensive. What's the worst thing? I waste a few $$$?
Click to expand...
CDT Grand. Filter basket is flat bottomed, with nearly vertical sides. Bunn 15 cup filters work nearly perfectly in it.
 
One thing in playing with the Breville. When I first bought it I thought I had properly descaled it. Now not so sure. I noted water in the brew basket running in the 195 range at that time and into the carafe in the 170s. This on "Gold" settings. Well I noted my "Descale" indicator came on today when I went to make morning Joe. So, this time I followed instructions (which quite honestly I thought I had first time). But the operation took about a half hour to run the 32oz of that descaling stuff in the little packet through the machine. I then flushed 2 full tanks of fresh water through. As per instructions. Then ran another temp test with my filtered water I use for brewing.
Water out of brew head running 202, out of bottom of brew basket 195-197 after brew cycle water in the pot 190.
Opens up a whole new bailiwick for me. As I wonder if it was brewing correctly (yes I was making excellent coffee) but now am wondering if a normal "Gold" setting might change now. Can't wait to brew a pot tomorrow. This time though, I will use same grinder setting and same 69-70 grams per 40oz water, but will try Gold setting. It will still be the same Sumatran beans so it will be apples to apples.
Honestly can't wait to see what happens...................feeling like a "kid at Christmas" now :D
 
LMichaels said:
One thing in playing with the Breville. When I first bought it I thought I had properly descaled it. Now not so sure. I noted water in the brew basket running in the 195 range at that time and into the carafe in the 170s. This on "Gold" settings. Well I noted my "Descale" indicator came on today when I went to make morning Joe. So, this time I followed instructions (which quite honestly I thought I had first time). But the operation took about a half hour to run the 32oz of that descaling stuff in the little packet through the machine. I then flushed 2 full tanks of fresh water through. As per instructions. Then ran another temp test with my filtered water I use for brewing.
Water out of brew head running 202, out of bottom of brew basket 195-197 after brew cycle water in the pot 190.
Opens up a whole new bailiwick for me. As I wonder if it was brewing correctly (yes I was making excellent coffee) but now am wondering if a normal "Gold" setting might change now. Can't wait to brew a pot tomorrow. This time though, I will use same grinder setting and same 69-70 grams per 40oz water, but will try Gold setting. It will still be the same Sumatran beans so it will be apples to apples.
Honestly can't wait to see what happens...................feeling like a "kid at Christmas" now :D
Click to expand...
Truth be told... sounds like the Breville is kind of of gimmicky. Too many functions digitally. I recommend a Moccamaster.
 
LMichaels said:
Even a MM needs to be descaled. And frankly I am enjoying the little "gimmicky" stuff. Fun to experiment and dial in the perfect brew
Click to expand...
I'm diligent about descaling our machines. I just never see any real result. I guess I'm comparing it to flushing the water heaters. Especially the 50 gal. Whirlpool one at our beach house. I ziptie a sock on the end and run the hose out the back door...I see little chunks of calcium type stuff. Not a lot but noticable. I guess I expected similar with descaling the coffee makers.:LOL:
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
I'm diligent about descaling our machines. I just never see any real result. I guess I'm comparing it to flushing the water heaters. Especially the 50 gal. Whirlpool one at our beach house. I ziptie a sock on the end and run the hose out the back door...I see little chunks of calcium type stuff. Not a lot but noticable. I guess I expected similar with descaling the coffee makers.:LOL:
Click to expand...
Well, results this AM after being up all night with a very sick 2.5 yo baby. Poor little thing barfed her bed about 0100, and all we could do was sit up with her, and the 1 yo as the commotion woke the 1 yo, wife had to do laundry all night, poor baby soiled 3 sets of pajamas, Needless to say Nona and I are REALLY beat. And I have to cook all day yet for my dad's 97th b/day party tomorrow (though today is actually his b/day). Ordered the Italian beef this time though. Did not make it. Still have peppers and potato salad to make.
Anyway, verdict on the coffee. It was quite aromatic but, I still prefer the My Brew setting with 40 sec bloom, slow water flow and the 198 brew temp. It extracted a little more "mellow' or smoother flavor and there were more "chocolate" nuances on My Brew
Still an excellent cup o' Joe though and if I did not know about experimenting with the settings on that Breville I would still be saying what a great pot of coffee it made me. So not a complaint about it, just knowing and understanding how to manipulate the brew.
Of course this is with the Sumatran coffee. I think next in the lineup I will do the SF Bay FR. I am familiar with that coffee but had not used it in the Breville (or at least not properly stored fresh version of it).
This will be a fresh bag. And I will "0" everything out with a center setting on the grinder, Gold setting on the brewer and "Gold" in terms of amount of beans. Since I have been finding I am quite liking the Sumatran brew by going about 3 or 4 grams over (so basically doing 69-70 grams) to 40 oz water, with cone filter
 
So for giggles and grins I decided to pull out the OXO Brew 9 Cup I have. Dusty and and such. I cleaned it all up, descaled it and then decided to run some tests against the Breville. (brew temp, carafe temp, and so on, but did not brew any coffee). For fairness I ran the tests with the Breville on Gold Cup setting. Since the OXO is supposed to be "Gold Cup" certified.
Some interesting things. First brew temp. Both brewers kept water to 195-200 mostly though 196-198. During entire brew cycle. However Breville brews differently. Since it has a pump, it goes through a brief heating time, then begins pumping. It also brews (on Gold) directly. IOW there is no "bloom". The OXO, heats, then bubbles the water out (no pump). It does this at startup then stops after about 10oz of water have been brewed. Then it pauses about 30 seconds doing nothing. Then it starts up again brewing but stops yet again, about 2/3 way through. Waits another 30 seconds and then, restarts and finishes. Using equal amounts of water the Breville never stops the pump until the water is out.
Temps in the carafe gets REALLY interesting. OXO in carafe temps (again this is all just plain water nothing brewed), 195. Breville in carafe temps 185 both immediately after a brew cycle. So now I gotta wonder why the 10 deg difference? So interesting little quirk. The carafe on the OXO is taller and skinny, while Breville is shorter and has much more girth. So, then thinking brew head to pot distance. 2" less on the OXO than the Breville even though the height and diameter of the conical brew baskets are the same.
Also noticed the spray head of the Breville sits about 1.5" above the bed of coffee higher than the where the brew head would sit with the OXO. So, in theory water is closer to bed in the OXO than the Breville (or even the Moccamaster for that matter) by a pretty large margin.
I have a half a mind to brew tomorrow with the OXO, for a direct head to head from today.
 
So with the OXO brewing on avg in upper 190's and low 200's I made a pot of SF Bay FR, The OXO definitely made a cup, much more to my liking with this roast. Much slower water flow than the Breville (using Gold setting). OXO, did a first bloom after about 10oz water brewed for about 40 seconds. Then brewed awhile, then stopped and waited for a bit (20-30 sec this time) brewed a bit more, did another wait period for 20-30 sec, then finished and began the "count up" timer. It has a much larger shower head, with more openings (IIRC 6 compared to 4 on the Breville). Water is dispersed more "gently" more like how the Moccamaster does since there is no pump. So, on the Gold setting, water seems to come out a little more forcefully and more directed to the center of the brew basket relying on the force of the water to agitate the bed, and getting a 40oz brew through the bed a little faster than the OXO does I did not measure the time, but to my estimation the OXO is about 2.5 min slower to brew the same water. Also there is no obvious "crater" with the OXO as there is in the center of the bed with the Breville or the edge of the bed with the Moccamaster. I will try the Breville tomorrow using the My Brew and taking the water temp down a bit to 195, going for a slightly longer bloom (maybe a minute), and setting the flow rate to "slow". And then see how it stacks against today's brew.
But, I still say the OXO brews the best "hands off" cup of the 3. But, I really dislike using it.
The flip up lids for water tank and brew basket are clumsy at best, needing to be pulled out tot he full length of it's power cord, the brew basket will not stand up, so you have to set it down into the machine then pour the grounds in whereas on the Breville the basket slides right out, stands on the counter and is very easy to manipulate. Of the 3 the Breville is the easiest to deal with and manipulate, the MM next and the OXO dead last. Not a well thought out machine ergonomically.
In terms of quality of the brew (again this is subjective and with a straight up brew no manipulation), the OXO leads the pack, the Breville a pretty close second, and the MM a distant 3rd. Saddens me to say that about the MM BTW. But, if all you do is load it up, fill it and turn it on it does not hold a candle to the other 2. Now if you stand there, manipulate and play with it yeah it does well. But, on the Breville I can do all that manipulation with a simple dial setting.
Anyway just my observation and test.
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
How do you like the SF Bay French roast?
Click to expand...
Depends what I make it in LOL. In the OXO? it's outstanding. In the Breville (at least on the base "Gold" setting) it's pretty good and in the MM sour (if you only leave the MM to it's own devices). Now, if you stand there at it, holding in the safety button, allowing a couple cups of hot water to flow in, then reach in a stir it around wait a bit about 45 seconds, then allow it to finish brewing it is as good as the OXO. I have yet to try it on manipulated settings with the Breville though. I will be trying that tomorrow. And will report back.
I think though, the more I drink coffee from the Breville and the OXO......................the more I am thinking the MM is going to get put up for sale. I also am learning to dislike the pot on the MM. What is with the huge lip all around it? Wife hates it as well. Seems others do as well since I noticed the latest version has a carafe more like my other 2 machines
 
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