So you screwed up..........

[MartinB]

Okay I've read a lot of posts before about people who screwed up. Not necessarily on this site. They left meat out too long before cooking it. Greater than the 2-hour limit..... In some case they left it in a car overnight..... Or they let their food cool off accidentally because their smoker went out.... And it got cool for several hours.

The answers given on the internet range the gamut from it's okay don't worry about it, with flawed reasoning usually, to to throw it away no way in hell should you eat that.

This is pretty much the same information here as in the Kruger files on this site only this is succinct. There's no hem hawing.

What's the real answer?

It's not easy to find cuz most people on the internet are parroting The normal FDA recommendations or limits.
To make it more complicated there's bacteria that spoilage bacteria that makes you sick that you can smell, and there's bacteria such as e coli that you can't smell or taste which can make you very sick or kill you.

So I've been hunting for the truth and it's hard to come by. From official sources that is. It's a lot like the recommendation to cook chicken to 165 f.... When that dries it out. 150 to 155 is much better as long as you get it there for the necessary time to pasteurize it.

Here's the basics of what I gathered, you should understand if you don't want to just throw an expensive piece of meat away if you screw up. Following the recommended guidelines is fine most of the time.

The only good concise information I could really find on this was explained by a professor emeritus of food illness epidemiology on his blog. He also used to be an inspector.

What he says: for raw meat..... If it smells good cook it. Don't worry about the time unrefrigerated. Spoilage bacteria on raw meat out competes pathogenic bacteria. And cooking properly kills all the spoilage bacteria. The FDA 2-hour limit out of the refrigerator is ridiculous and wastes food. You can keep meat out for hours or even a day at room temperature and still cook it and eat it. Recommendation for 2 hr is extremely conservative was made around commercial kitchens... Where you don't know what other steps previously items were not refrigerated in. The total time is really like 15 hours or so.... And there's also a lag time before bacteria even begins to grow of like 4 hours that takes you far past that 2 hour limit. In essence the 2-hour limit is simply does not apply at home at ambient temperatures. And that's if you were going to eat it You're not you're going to cook it which is going to kill all of this spoliage bacteria anyway. Toxins are not a problem on raw meat because the pathogenic bacteria are out competed by the vast numbers of easy growing spoilage bacteria. He points out that in much of the world meat is sold unrefrigerated all day long in markets.

On the other end, after you've cooked food..... All the spoilage bacteria has been eliminated and this is where the pathogenic bacteria has the ability to really grow. Or incomplete cooking where most of the spoilage bacteria has been eliminated. ......This is what you need to worry about. However you don't have to worry about it as quick as they say for the same reasons. There's a lag time again of 4 hours or more before bacteria even begins to grow when the food cools down into the unsafe zone. You can leave food out a few hours to cool down before putting it in the refrigerator it's fine. You typically have 6-7 to hours to not worry about. You can cool it to room temperature first. You don't have to throw food out because you didn't get it in the refrigerator in 2 hours.. he did a calculation for e coli which indicated that previously prepared, ready to eat food could be left out for as long as 15 hours before the level would get significant.

Now the catch 22 is that bacteria such as these pathogenic bacteria produce heat resistant toxins. They produce that reheating it does not kill it. It takes sterilization temperatures to get rid of the toxins of like 130c. So pathogenic bacteria time is more critical to limit after food is cooked.... Because reheating doesn't kill the toxins.

He basically points out that almost all cases of foodborne illness occur by...... Cross contamination...... Inadequate cooking of meat....... And undercooked hamburger. Undercooked hamburger is the worst place you really see ecoli that can kill people. This is due to the vast amount of surface area that ground meat has and bacteria can grow all throughout it instead of just on the outside.



So what made me bring this up? I screwed up Sunday night. I fell asleep and left my prepped brisket and sitting on the counter in the kitchen for about 5 hours before I woke up and put it on the smoker. It was almost to room temperature 60F. Because I knew this stuff, I went ahead and cooked it and it was great. I had to convince my wife so I had to dig up his blog info for her.......

I read before where people threw a $$$ brisket away because they exceeded that two hour time limit......... A while back there was a post on here from someone who smoker cooled off..... Brisket was 120 when they found it. People told them to go ahead and reheat it and it would kill the bacteria and the things would be fine and that's not necessarily true.... Because reheating won't kill toxins that are heat resistant from pathogenic bacteria. That case all depends on how long it was cool, and more importantly did it get hot enough to kill the pathogenic bacteria before it started to cool. But generally you've got quite a few hours before you have to worry about it if you got to a safe temperatute first ... Because there's a time lag before the bacteria even begin to grow and it's several hours alone once you get under 130F. . Thats 4 + hours you don't even have to worry about ....

Basically all these rules were limits were designed around commercial food preparation where somebody does not know the cumulative effect of stages of preparation, not for your kitchen. There's no need to waste perfectly good food. This professor says it as much as one third of all food is thrown out prematurely

 

[Wil A]

Maybe I’m the wonky one, but I’ve always let meat that I’m going to be grilling or hot smoking come “down” to room temp out of the fridge. Depending upon the weight/thickness/size of the meat, that will sometimes take a long time.

 

[Brett-EDH]

Maybe I’m the wonky one, but I’ve always let meat that I’m going to be grilling or hot smoking come “down” to room temp out of the fridge. Depending upon the weight/thickness/size of the meat, that will sometimes take a long time.

Putting hot food into the fridge is one way to kill your fridge. My KA old fridge has out of temp alarms. Hot food set it off a few times. So counter cool is fine and then fridge it. Same for stocks and more. I haven’t died, yet, so I’ll keep counter cooling

 

[Bob H.]

Okay I've read a lot of posts before about people who screwed up. Not necessarily on this site. They left meat out too long before cooking it. Greater than the 2-hour limit..... In some case they left it in a car overnight..... Or they let their food cool off accidentally because their smoker went out.... And it got cool for several hours.

The answers given on the internet range the gamut from it's okay don't worry about it, with flawed reasoning usually, to to throw it away no way in hell should you eat that.

This is pretty much the same information here as in the Kruger files on this site only this is succinct. There's no hem hawing.

What's the real answer?

It's not easy to find cuz most people on the internet are parroting The normal FDA recommendations or limits.
To make it more complicated there's bacteria that spoilage bacteria that makes you sick that you can smell, and there's bacteria such as e coli that you can't smell or taste which can make you very sick or kill you.

So I've been hunting for the truth and it's hard to come by. From official sources that is. It's a lot like the recommendation to cook chicken to 165 f.... When that dries it out. 150 to 155 is much better as long as you get it there for the necessary time to pasteurize it.

Here's the basics of what I gathered, you should understand if you don't want to just throw an expensive piece of meat away if you screw up. Following the recommended guidelines is fine most of the time.

The only good concise information I could really find on this was explained by a professor emeritus of food illness epidemiology on his blog. He also used to be an inspector.

What he says: for raw meat..... If it smells good cook it. Don't worry about the time unrefrigerated. Spoilage bacteria on raw meat out competes pathogenic bacteria. And cooking properly kills all the spoilage bacteria. The FDA 2-hour limit out of the refrigerator is ridiculous and wastes food. You can keep meat out for hours or even a day at room temperature and still cook it and eat it. Recommendation for 2 hr is extremely conservative was made around commercial kitchens... Where you don't know what other steps previously items were not refrigerated in. The total time is really like 15 hours or so.... And there's also a lag time before bacteria even begins to grow of like 4 hours that takes you far past that 2 hour limit. In essence the 2-hour limit is simply does not apply at home at ambient temperatures. And that's if you were going to eat it You're not you're going to cook it which is going to kill all of this spoliage bacteria anyway. Toxins are not a problem on raw meat because the pathogenic bacteria are out competed by the vast numbers of easy growing spoilage bacteria. He points out that in much of the world meat is sold unrefrigerated all day long in markets.

On the other end, after you've cooked food..... All the spoilage bacteria has been eliminated and this is where the pathogenic bacteria has the ability to really grow. Or incomplete cooking where most of the spoilage bacteria has been eliminated. ......This is what you need to worry about. However you don't have to worry about it as quick as they say for the same reasons. There's a lag time again of 4 hours or more before bacteria even begins to grow when the food cools down into the unsafe zone. You can leave food out a few hours to cool down before putting it in the refrigerator it's fine. You typically have 6-7 to hours to not worry about. You can cool it to room temperature first. You don't have to throw food out because you didn't get it in the refrigerator in 2 hours.. he did a calculation for e coli which indicated that previously prepared, ready to eat food could be left out for as long as 15 hours before the level would get significant.

Now the catch 22 is that bacteria such as these pathogenic bacteria produce heat resistant toxins. They produce that reheating it does not kill it. It takes sterilization temperatures to get rid of the toxins of like 130c. So pathogenic bacteria time is more critical to limit after food is cooked.... Because reheating doesn't kill the toxins.

He basically points out that almost all cases of foodborne illness occur by...... Cross contamination...... Inadequate cooking of meat....... And undercooked hamburger. Undercooked hamburger is the worst place you really see ecoli that can kill people. This is due to the vast amount of surface area that ground meat has and bacteria can grow all throughout it instead of just on the outside.



So what made me bring this up? I screwed up Sunday night. I fell asleep and left my prepped brisket and sitting on the counter in the kitchen for about 5 hours before I woke up and put it on the smoker. It was almost to room temperature 60F. Because I knew this stuff, I went ahead and cooked it and it was great. I had to convince my wife so I had to dig up his blog info for her.......

I read before where people threw a $$$ brisket away because they exceeded that two hour time limit......... A while back there was a post on here from someone who smoker cooled off..... Brisket was 120 when they found it. People told them to go ahead and reheat it and it would kill the bacteria and the things would be fine and that's not necessarily true.... Because reheating won't kill toxins that are heat resistant from pathogenic bacteria. That case all depends on how long it was cool, and more importantly did it get hot enough to kill the pathogenic bacteria before it started to cool. But generally you've got quite a few hours before you have to worry about it if you got to a safe temperatute first ... Because there's a time lag before the bacteria even begin to grow and it's several hours alone once you get under 130F. . Thats 4 + hours you don't even have to worry about ....

Basically all these rules were limits were designed around commercial food preparation where somebody does not know the cumulative effect of stages of preparation, not for your kitchen. There's no need to waste perfectly good food. This professor says it as much as one third of all food is thrown out prematurely

So how was your brisket?

 

[MartinB]

So how was your brisket?

Mostly gone now........ wife got it at the grocery store to cook for memorial Day and paid about half price I think it was $38 for a 15 lb brisket.

 

[Brad Olson]

I've always wondered about nasties ON the meat vs. those IN the meat, and how they're affected by time, cooking, cooling, etc.

 

[MartinB]

I've always wondered about nasties ON the meat vs. those IN the meat, and how they're affected by time, cooking, cooling, etc.

Basically there are no nasties inside whole cuts of beef. Only on the surface. This is why you can eat the inside of a steak rare.. the searingl on the outside kills the nasties there. Ground meat ie hamburger and sausage are dramatically different there the surface dwelling nasties are spread throughout during the grinding with incalculable surface area to multiply on. This is why you usually see e coli outbreaks to the hamburgers. They were actually some deaths at the hotel I stayed at overseas when a family got hamburgers from room service...... Think a 5-year-old boy died.

 

[Greg Part]

I’ll take the liberty of adding some additional content to MartinB’s post.

As an RN for the past 30 years, we spell “FOOD SAFETY” with capital letters in our home. No “if, ands or buts“ about it, and, although I may have some insight into food borne illnesses, I am not an authority on food safety.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is the official safe-food-handling resource for our country. I’ve included a several links from the USDA’s Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) and FoodSafety.Gov.

FoodSafety.Gov, in particular, addresses food borne illnesses as well as the TYPE of food borne illnesses (Botulism, e. Coli, salmonella, etc.) that come from certain foods, along with signs and symptoms (S/S) of certain food borne illnesses, what to do / treatment for each illness, as well as prevention for the risk of food borne illnesses.

I figure if they’re setting food inspection, safety and handling guidelines for every legitimate wholesale and retail food outlet in the country, then they’re the authoritative resource on food safety.

Keep Foods Safe! Food Safety Basics​

Safe Food Handling and Preparation

FoodSafety.Gov (they also have a handy app called FoodKeeper)

• Food Poisoning (bacteria and viruses)
• People at Risk
• Food Safety Charts

There are additional links on FoodSafety.Gov that address group gatherings, food safety by seasons and events, recalled products, what to do with them and cleaning your fridge and more).

Hopefully, some will find this to be helpful information.

 

[Richard S]

I’m pretty low key about letting meat warm up on counter and thawing on counter. I also let the meat sit out at room temp after the cook for up to a couple hours after dinner has ended. This is usually when I’m entertaining and enjoying some drinks and company.
I am much more careful with hand washing during prep and sanitizing counters and faucet handles, fridge handle, etc.

 

[MartinB]

I’m pretty low key about letting meat warm up on counter and thawing on counter. I also let the meat sit out at room temp after the cook for up to a couple hours after dinner has ended. This is usually when I’m entertaining and enjoying some drinks and company.
I am much more careful with hand washing during prep and sanitizing counters and faucet handles, fridge handle, etc.

Im especially more careful using meat slicer on cooked meat, and meat grinder. These items are wiped down with antibacterial wipes before use. Everything is wiped down with bleach water before making sausage without nitrite. I'm pretty conscious of time out of the refrigerator for raw meat, and even time in for leftovers. It is nice to know that if you accidentally leave a cryovac brisket in your vehicle overnight there's really nothing to worry about.... At least if you're going to cook it right away.

 

[Brad Olson]

I am much more careful with hand washing during prep and sanitizing counters and faucet handles, fridge handle, etc.

That's my major point of emphasis, too, especially after the raw ingredients have been fully processed and the same area is going to be used for cooked foods later.

 

[Jason Godard]

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see mention of poultry, fish or pork, and I think it’s important to point out that distinction. Those meats should be handled differently. For instance, chicken should not be left out for more than 2 hours at room temperature of less than 90F; 1 hour if the room temperature is warmer. Bacteria can start feeding off the meat in that time, or even sooner, and the byproduct is toxic. When frozen, thawing should happen overnight in the fridge, not at room temp. I try to not leave raw chicken out for more than 15 minutes. Pork and fish have their own rules, but again, I try not to leave them out for anything more than a few minutes.

 

[Anne M.]

I'm not an expert at all, but the FDA rules are overly cautious.
If I remember correct, European rules (for restaurants etc) go by a 4 hour period of leaving meat out of the fridge.
Ground meat can be cooked to medium as it has to be certified E. coli free, since it's eaten raw in France (steak tartare) and half raw in Germany and Holland (tartare steak).

I'm careful about cross contamination, not so much about anything else. I'll eat street food in Asia and Africa, anything that smells good
That's for me though.

When I ran a restaurant, it was a different story as you'll have elderly people, pregnant woman, little kids etc and you can't take a risk

 

[Dean Smiley]

I'm not an expert at all, but the FDA rules are overly cautious.
If I remember correct, European rules (for restaurants etc) go by a 4 hour period of leaving meat out of the fridge.
Ground meat can be cooked to medium as it has to be certified E. coli free, since it's eaten raw in France (steak tartare) and half raw in Germany and Holland (tartare steak).

Ditto for raw kibbe or kibbeh in Lebanese homes.

 

[MartinB]

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see mention of poultry, fish or pork, and I think it’s important to point out that distinction. Those meats should be handled differently. For instance, chicken should not be left out for more than 2 hours at room temperature of less than 90F; 1 hour if the room temperature is warmer. Bacteria can start feeding off the meat in that time, or even sooner, and the byproduct is toxic. When frozen, thawing should happen overnight in the fridge, not at room temp. I try to not leave raw chicken out for more than 15 minutes. Pork and fish have their own rules, but again, I try not to leave them out for anything more than a few minutes.

Not true. Chicken is the same. When you leave it out it's a quality concern not a safety concern.... Provided you cook it completely. Dispelling these myths, that have been so deeply ingrained in us through overly cautious procedures, that they will cause us to throw perfectly good food out is the focus of this post


From Timothy Sly. Professor emeritus of foodborne illness epidemiology University of Toronto.

Here he is answering a question about chicken left on the counter overnight.....17 hrs....

Cookable and safe!

Raw chicken is usually highly contaminated with Campylobacter and Salmonella, and in addition, MUCH greater numbers of ordinary spoilage organisms that do not cause illness but will cause decomposition. The spoilage organisms grow rapidly (some even at refrigeration temperatures (0-5C or 32-40F).

So here is the answer: Forget for a moment about controlling pathogens in raw meats; they are ALWAYS there, whether frozen or not! The spoilage organisms are growing exponentially, and will turn the colour a bit greenish, the smell a little sour, and the texture a little slimy. IF any of these are detected, you may want to throw it out because it wouldn't taste as you would expect. (But this is a quality issue, not a health issue). This is likely to happen if the chicken has become too warm in the 24 hrs. If it is still cool, even for several days, check colour, smell, surface and interior texture (especially near the vent)- and if it passes - go ahead, cook and eat. Talk of "toxins" are incorrect in this context. Toxin-producers are NOT going to grow in uncooked meat. None of them. In most areas in the world, poultry is hung up on display at ambient temperature as a normal procedure. No refrigeration for raw meat, and people are not falling down with fatal infections! The meat simply goes "bad" and is rejected at some point.

Having passed the smell-touch-visual test, if you go ahead, NOW BE CONCERNED ABOUT PATHOGENS! How? COMPLETE cooking (at least 166'F or 75'C), and sanitize the board, knives, cloths, thawing-dishes, etc., using 1-2 capsfull of chlorine bleach in the washing and wiping water. That's it! Throwing perfectly good raw meat out just because of imagined 'pathogen growth' or 'toxin-production' is simply a waste. After 30+ years investigating, lecturing, researching food borne illness, I can safely report that illnesses due to poultry are always (A) inadequate heating/cooking all-through, and/or (B) contamination from raw to ready-to-eat foods, or (C) dangerous holding/storage temperatures AFTER cooking.

What happens BEFORE cooking really doesn't play a direct role in illness, (other than contaminating something else).




How many of us had parents and grandparents that thawed all their meat out on kitchen counter? Nobody ever got sick. The government has everybody convinced today you're going to die if you thaw a meat out on a counter you have to thaw it out in the refrigerator. That's a load of horse crap. If you thoroughly cook it it won't make a bit of difference.

How many of us had parents and grandparents that never had a thermometer to cook with? When cooking a turkey you cooked it until the juices ran clear..... By and large that works. Because the temperature rise is so slow in the big by the time that happens it's pasteurized. The juices run out of the bird above 150°, when the muscle fibers begin to contract and squeeze the juice out. This is the point you quit cooking if you want your bird to be juicy as long as you know you've pasteurized it... this is what I do. 150 to 155. On the thermometer. Nobody's ever gotten sick. And yes I thaw my bird on the counter a lot as well. Still in the wrapper.... The surface of the bird is still very cold because the bird is very cold it's not like the surface is room temperature it's 40° until the bird has all thawed out past 32.

In the name of being 10 times as conservative as they need to be for all the knuckleheads out the government has scared people senseless. In many cases they've outright lied to them. Do I want my restaurant being super conservative.... Well heck yes. I don't have any problem with them following government recommendations and guidelines.

 

[Bruno]

You lost me at slimy green.

 

[Jason Godard]

Not true. Chicken is the same. When you leave it out it's a quality concern not a safety concern.... Provided you cook it completely. Dispelling these myths, that have been so deeply ingrained in us through overly cautious procedures, that they will cause us to throw perfectly good food out is the focus of this post


From Timothy Sly. Professor emeritus of foodborne illness epidemiology University of Toronto.

Here he is answering a question about chicken left on the counter overnight.....17 hrs....

Cookable and safe!

Raw chicken is usually highly contaminated with Campylobacter and Salmonella, and in addition, MUCH greater numbers of ordinary spoilage organisms that do not cause illness but will cause decomposition. The spoilage organisms grow rapidly (some even at refrigeration temperatures (0-5C or 32-40F).

So here is the answer: Forget for a moment about controlling pathogens in raw meats; they are ALWAYS there, whether frozen or not! The spoilage organisms are growing exponentially, and will turn the colour a bit greenish, the smell a little sour, and the texture a little slimy. IF any of these are detected, you may want to throw it out because it wouldn't taste as you would expect. (But this is a quality issue, not a health issue). This is likely to happen if the chicken has become too warm in the 24 hrs. If it is still cool, even for several days, check colour, smell, surface and interior texture (especially near the vent)- and if it passes - go ahead, cook and eat. Talk of "toxins" are incorrect in this context. Toxin-producers are NOT going to grow in uncooked meat. None of them. In most areas in the world, poultry is hung up on display at ambient temperature as a normal procedure. No refrigeration for raw meat, and people are not falling down with fatal infections! The meat simply goes "bad" and is rejected at some point.

Having passed the smell-touch-visual test, if you go ahead, NOW BE CONCERNED ABOUT PATHOGENS! How? COMPLETE cooking (at least 166'F or 75'C), and sanitize the board, knives, cloths, thawing-dishes, etc., using 1-2 capsfull of chlorine bleach in the washing and wiping water. That's it! Throwing perfectly good raw meat out just because of imagined 'pathogen growth' or 'toxin-production' is simply a waste. After 30+ years investigating, lecturing, researching food borne illness, I can safely report that illnesses due to poultry are always (A) inadequate heating/cooking all-through, and/or (B) contamination from raw to ready-to-eat foods, or (C) dangerous holding/storage temperatures AFTER cooking.

What happens BEFORE cooking really doesn't play a direct role in illness, (other than contaminating something else).




How many of us had parents and grandparents that thawed all their meat out on kitchen counter? Nobody ever got sick. The government has everybody convinced today you're going to die if you thaw a meat out on a counter you have to thaw it out in the refrigerator. That's a load of horse crap. If you thoroughly cook it it won't make a bit of difference.

How many of us had parents and grandparents that never had a thermometer to cook with? When cooking a turkey you cooked it until the juices ran clear..... By and large that works. Because the temperature rise is so slow in the big by the time that happens it's pasteurized. The juices run out of the bird above 150°, when the muscle fibers begin to contract and squeeze the juice out. This is the point you quit cooking if you want your bird to be juicy as long as you know you've pasteurized it... this is what I do. 150 to 155. On the thermometer. Nobody's ever gotten sick. And yes I thaw my bird on the counter a lot as well. Still in the wrapper.... The surface of the bird is still very cold because the bird is very cold it's not like the surface is room temperature it's 40° until the bird has all thawed out past 32.

In the name of being 10 times as conservative as they need to be for all the knuckleheads out the government has scared people senseless. In many cases they've outright lied to them. Do I want my restaurant being super conservative.... Well heck yes. I don't have any problem with them following government recommendations and guidelines.

Oh, Canadian science, I see. Maybe room temperature is below 40F up there? I’m just kidding, he could be completely right, but I can only go off of my anecdotal experience, where I got sick from fully cooked chicken that was left out, for not really all that long. It did gain an offputting smell to it in that short time, but I cooked it anyways, thinking, that if I cooked it well enough, it would be ok. It was not, and I paid for it.
Also, I would have to wonder what purpose would it serve to leave chicken out for an extended period anyways, excluding the obvious accidental case of forgetting it out?
I’ve also stepped on a hot coal before, and so, those are my two mortal bbq rules, so far anyways. Dont leave out the chicken, and always wear frickin’ shoes.

 

[MartinB]

You wouldn't believe how many people I've seen take meat outside to cook on a grill on a plate, and leave the plate out there and put the cooked food back on the same plate. Maybe even use the same tongs, fork, etc to remove cooked food as they did to put raw food on the grill. To avoid dirtying up another plate, etc. I'm like no no no that is how you get sick.

 

[Tony-Chicago]

So true. Have to have a hardline on that. Always in and out of the house for clean plates, forks, platters, and tongs. As well as spatulas.
I use a new spatula every turn. Maybe an open fire would sterilize them. As much as a pita it is, it is clearly necessary.

 

[RichPB (richlife)]

@MartinB, so many thanks for this great information and discussion -- and for continuing to pursue the not so accurate "corrections" sometimes offered.

I wouldn't argue with anything you said -- makes sense to me. But one question that I have is how "preservative" techniques may affect cooked meats -- or not help. For example, I tend to make really "spicy hot" chili, mostly using only roasts I cut up. By "spicy hot", I mean lots of jalapenos, red pepper, even habaneros or the sauces there of. Most people find my results too hot for their liking. In addition, I typically slow cook, so the temps will get to the pasteurization range for a long period. (The chili will boil before finishing.) After cooking, I normally wait for the 5-6 quarts to reduce temp (hot but touchable -- how that for scientific accuracy?) before refrigerating, but have a few times forgotten and it ended up staying out overnight or at least 5 or 6 hours before the fridge. So far, no bad after effects. Did I just get lucky, or did my methods add to the time the chili can stay out? Also does proper smoking increase the time meat can stay out? (I seem to remember that smoking is a preservative method.)

I don't think I would trust a grilled steak left out for many hours like this.