SmokeFire issues on YouTube.


 
Jason in CA said:
I'm at work an saw this. I've got five minutes left on break so I have no idea how this is going to go. It will be a while before I can watch it.
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I just watched it. The short version of the video is that since he had no problems with the cooks on this grill on that day, he feels all of the problems are user error. The only thing he said was an issue was the pellet feed. If he is trying to protect Weber, it really is the wrong message to send to those who have had problems. He blamed people assembling them wrong to not being patient to just not knowing what they are doing. In some cases, I am sure those issues are a factor. But to broadly blame users for all the problems is laughable. Especially when many of the users have been using other pellet cookers for years.

I am not trying to bash Harry or anything, but the entire tone of the video seemed to be to provide cover for Weber. He was so definitive with his statements and pretty much bashing anyone with problems with the grill. It's good that he had no problems and the guy's grill he was using did great. But to use that one case to prove that all other issues have to be user error is irresponsible. I am glad there are some success stories out there, glad that people are enjoying their purchase. But he didn't even do a long slow and low cook, where most of the problems have shown themselves!!

if this is how Weber believes they will PR themselves out of this, it won't work. He is getting killed in the comments right now. The end of the video had a segment where he flat out said that his friend was smart, so he followed directions correctly so that is why he didn't have any issues. Insinuating that those who do have problems aren't smart and don't follow directions. Just insulting.

Lastly...let's just say it all has been user error (which I do not believe), if THIS MANY users are making the same errors then there are still design flaws with the grill. If a product isn't usable correctly by the customer, then it is not a good product.
 
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Interesting. He admits the pellet hopper, right side only flames, and ash blowing issues, but he still thinks its a winner. He claimed the grease build up is a non-issue, but his brisket and butt were cooked at 400 for two hours then foiled and finished in the oven at lower heat. At 400, any grease that hits the flavorizer bars will mostly vaporize. He did cook the ribs after that at 275 (again foiled and finished in the oven), followed by reverse seared steaks finished at 600. There was more grease in his drip tray in the drawer than I have seen in other videos, but the ash build up in the bottom of the cooker after the steaks was significant. The grill's owner then cleaned that ash out the bottom of the cook chamber after it had shut down and cooled off. I think that probably has to be done after every cook. There is a decidedly blame-the-user viewpoint to the video. That surprised me given he is friends with BBM.

Edit: Harry is getting roasted in the comments to his video. Even the guy that said it was nice to see an open-minded, other-side-of-the-coin review said he will not buy it because of the ash blowing everywhere and coating everything.
 
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Brave video by Harry considering all the negative publicity.
im putting my EX6 through the paces this weekend, I will use drip pans because it just makes too much sense with this smoker. Hell I sure put them in my WSM.
 
Jason in CA said:
I'm at work an saw this. I've got five minutes left on break so I have no idea how this is going to go. It will be a while before I can watch it.
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I watched the video. Here's the comment I posted on YouTube.

Harry, thank you for what I think is a thoughtful and honest presentation of your experience with Dennis. I have zero pellet experience, but I know you do. Is the amount of ash seen flying around when the lid is open and the amount covering every surface of the exterior of the grill common to other brands? In your video, you can see accumulation of ash on top of the bin lid under the three exhaust ports. There must be ash coating the meat. I know we get some ash moving around in the WSM, so I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other pits, but I'm honestly shocked at the amount that you see in videos. Any comment on this? Also, I wonder if you cooked brisket and butt low & slow without wrapping if you'd get a greasy, ashy build-up in the bottom of the chamber that might lend itself to a grease fire. I hope you'll do such a test when you get your unit. I was planning on getting one but will be holding out for EX6 v2. Sorry for the long comment, BBQ love to you!
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Chris, obviously a very valid question, but even in my WSM 22 I was putting down drip pans to avoid a big mess in the water pan. Was I the only one? I’m going to cook as much as I can this weekend on the EX6 and I’ll do it with a drip pan large enough to catch the drippings. While clearly not exactly what was portrayed early on, is it that big of a deal to put a $3.00 aluminum pan under a large piece of fatty meat?
 
J Grotz said:
He claimed the grease build up is a non-issue, but his brisket and butt were cooked at 400 for two hours then foiled and finished in the oven at lower heat.
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So you have to understand how Harry cooks and I use some of his methods. Generally its high heat for example I use his method for St Louis Ribs in my UDS, about 2 hours 20 minutes, then I foil and set my iPhone for 2 hours then pull them out of the foil throw them back on for 15 minutes brush them with some sweet baby rays. I tried his oven method but the UDS uses so little charcoal by the time you took them off added the honey and all that stuff you were wasting time and I had built a rolling table out of a Silver B frame so easier to do that beside the smoker and throw them back on.

Harry believes that once you wrap them its a waste of fuel to leave them on a smoker as they have absorbed as much smoke as they are going to get once wrapped so he throws them in the oven to finish them off.

I agree that the video because of his method is not indicative of the problems it can have for people who do not use the high heat method and are smoking lets say a brisket for 6 or 7 hours or whatever before they are wrapped. That is a big difference than 400 for a few hours then to the oven. He does acknowledge the pellet problem, the pancakes appear burned on the right side maybe its me he tries to say its not a big deal but and he is way more talented to me in the smoking world. I think he should have done a low and slow say a 12 or 14 smoke and then comment on it but that is not the way he rolls.
 
Bruno said:
Chris, obviously a very valid question, but even in my WSM 22 I was putting down drip pans to avoid a big mess in the water pan. Was I the only one? I’m going to cook as much as I can this weekend on the EX6 and I’ll do it with a drip pan large enough to catch the drippings. While clearly not exactly what was portrayed early on, is it that big of a deal to put a $3.00 aluminum pan under a large piece of fatty meat?
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It's not the $3 pan, the issue is Weber said it was not necessary due to the design and if it changes the distribution of heat/smoke to the meat (depending upon placement) it changes the whole function.
 
Bruno said:
Chris, obviously a very valid question, but even in my WSM 22 I was putting down drip pans to avoid a big mess in the water pan. Was I the only one? I’m going to cook as much as I can this weekend on the EX6 and I’ll do it with a drip pan large enough to catch the drippings. While clearly not exactly what was portrayed early on, is it that big of a deal to put a $3.00 aluminum pan under a large piece of fatty meat?
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I've cooked pork butts IN foil pans once just for the experience. But I've never placed a drip pan under the meat but over the water pan. I foil the pan and let the drippings collect in the pan, with or without water. Never felt it was the big mess that people say it was.

For SmokeFire, will it be a big deal to have to place a drip pan under fatty meats? I guess not, but Weber will have to stop touting their revolutionary system of Flavorizer bars and grease channels as a game changer.

SmokeFire’s internal ash & grease collection system keeps ash and grease out of sight, in an easy-clean drawer.
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and referring to competitors:

Take a look under the cooking grate. Some pellet grills have a large grease pan blocking the flame; thus preventing direct heat from reaching the food, while also collecting grease and ash.
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Emphasis is mine.
 
Bruno said:
Chris, obviously a very valid question, but even in my WSM 22 I was putting down drip pans to avoid a big mess in the water pan. Was I the only one? I’m going to cook as much as I can this weekend on the EX6 and I’ll do it with a drip pan large enough to catch the drippings. While clearly not exactly what was portrayed early on, is it that big of a deal to put a $3.00 aluminum pan under a large piece of fatty meat?
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Or build a UDS you need no drip or water pan there is no cleanup you pull the basket the next time you use it dump the small coals and the ash into a trash bag and off you go. Maybe once a year if that you vacuum the bottom of the barrel for a bit of ash and I mean a bit. Almost all of the meat drippings drop onto the charcoal basket get vaporized back up into the meat think the bars in a Silver C or 1000 kind of the same idea. Never have a grease fire since its about 20" from the basket to the grate.

Actually don't build one don't want Chris to lose any posters however I do have a Performer and a Silver C so not going anywhere. :)
 
Brian B Atlanta said:
So you have to understand how Harry cooks and I use some of his methods.
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I've taken his class and I understand how he cooks.

Bruno said:
Chris, obviously a very valid question, but even in my WSM 22 I was putting down drip pans to avoid a big mess in the water pan. Was I the only one? I’m going to cook as much as I can this weekend on the EX6 and I’ll do it with a drip pan large enough to catch the drippings. While clearly not exactly what was portrayed early on, is it that big of a deal to put a $3.00 aluminum pan under a large piece of fatty meat?
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Is there room between the top of the flavorizer bars and the grates? It's a kludgy workaround.
 
I wonder right now if those of us here are living in an artificial grill world while the rest of the world, including those getting ready to buy grills, are little impacted at this point. We are already using the past tense to describe this product “why it failed,” but I wonder if outside our little confines that many people have drawn this conclusion. I know there are already a bad ratio of unhappy reviews, but am I wrong when I say that I am not seeing a bigger reaction outside of here?
 
Jon Tofte said:
Yes, I have to agree that over at Traeger, Rec Tec, Camp Chef, Pit Boss & Co. the nervous squirming is probably giving way to great relief. Meanwhile at the headquarters of the private equity group that owns Weber they are probably lining up the heads to rollo_O...

I predicted in another thread that before year-end I expect to see a new Rec Tec flagship grill to replace the RT-700 like the one I own. I still expect that, but now I believe they will take a much more conservative approach to be sure to avoid anything resembling this catastrophe. Rear vents instead of a smokestack, yes. But I doubt they will vary far from the fully shielded firebox model that has worked well for them.
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Absolutely! And make sure wind cannot create a draft or such that affects the grill safety or use.
Unbelievable how relieved they must be. While they are not out of the woods yet, and i hope Weber can put out a perfect machine, they would be well advised to stay on their toes. Weber or such could still take over, or all the competition divide the market too much.
The question now is who takes iver for the grills. Charcoal and gas.

The pellet was to save them from.. and provide a continuous revenue stream (pellets) but the remaindered grills and slow selling products. If the Wrber name is destroyed .... how is Coleman doing
 
J Grotz said:
Interesting. He admits the pellet hopper, right side only flames, and ash blowing issues, but he still thinks its a winner. He claimed the grease build up is a non-issue, but his brisket and butt were cooked at 400 for two hours then foiled and finished in the oven at lower heat. At 400, any grease that hits the flavorizer bars will mostly vaporize. He did cook the ribs after that at 275 (again foiled and finished in the oven), followed by reverse seared steaks finished at 600. There was more grease in his drip tray in the drawer than I have seen in other videos, but the ash build up in the bottom of the cooker after the steaks was significant. The grill's owner then cleaned that ash out the bottom of the cook chamber after it had shut down and cooled off. I think that probably has to be done after every cook.
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So they perfectly tailored the experiment to avoid issues and they still failed. So what we confirm from this is that long cooks are not possible, you have to use oven. Must clean every few minutes. Grease build up, embers lighting porch/deck uh no talk about that, of course food taste better with ash everybody know that... wow if they continue with this it will inly take consumer reports or such to have it seriously recalled. If it gets out to the general public that Weber did this. ey will be known for it and lose their cachet. Which is all but gone now.

Another thing. Maybe privat equity was there to take the pensions. Maybe the pissed off employees gave up struggling with the new owners and said okay have at it.
 
Jon Tofte said:
I wonder right now if those of us here are living in an artificial grill world while the rest of the world, including those getting ready to buy grills, are little impacted at this point. We are already using the past tense to describe this product “why it failed,” but I wonder if outside our little confines that many people have drawn this conclusion. I know there are already a bad ratio of unhappy reviews, but am I wrong when I say that I am not seeing a bigger reaction outside of here?
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I think that if the return rate is anything close to what I think it is, retailers will start to steer customers away from the SmokeFire. I saw a video last night from a store who actually is selling the SmokeFire and listed all the reasons you shouldn't buy it right now. I think Chris said his brother was advising people not to buy it as well. If the Amazon star rating doesn't get any higher, and more negative reviews get posted, then this will fail there too. The thing about early adopters is they drive the early word of mouth. Especially now in the internet age. The only people who bought a SmokeFire this early were people that are grilling fanatics. Those are the people others look to when making a decision, those are the people who will take the time to write a review or make a YouTube video. That is the content that people will see when they are set buy. So no, I don't think it is a complete overreaction or our bubble is distorting the real world view. This product is flawed, period.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the last 2 Weber product launches were the SmokeFire and the anniversary kettle. Both had issues. The kettle is their bread and butter product and even that had issues. It took a sustained uproar before Weber did something about the kettle. We may be seeing the overall decline of the company here.
 
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Derrick H said:
I think that if the return rate is anything close to what I think it is, retailers will start to steer customers away from the SmokeFire. I saw a video last night from a store who actually is selling the SmokeFire and listed all the reasons you shouldn't buy it right now. I think Chris said his brother was advising people not to buy it as well. If the Amazon star rating doesn't get any higher, and more negative reviews get posted, then this will fail there too. The thing about early adopters is they drive the early word of mouth. Especially now in the internet age. The only people who bought a SmokeFire this early were people that are grilling fanatics. Those are the people others look to when making a decision, those are the people who will take the time to write a review or make a YouTube video. That is the content that people will see when they are set buy. So no, I don't think it is a complete overreaction or our bubble is distorting the real world view. This product is flawed, period.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the last 2 Weber product launches were the SmokeFire and the anniversary kettle. Both had issues. The kettle is their bread and butter product and even that had issues. It took a sustained uproar before Weber did something about the kettle. We may be seeing the overall decline of the company here.
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Well, I am very much afraid that you are right about what Weber is facing. Doesn't bode well for its future. Holland Grills went under recently. Weber is not invincible, but what a terrible thing to contemplate for the grill world :confused:
 
They won't go under they'll just turn into another Charmglow or Charbroil what have you (which they almost are now) and just simply dump Chinese stuff on us (again which a lot of it is). The bean counters will win, they will have their golden parachutes and they'll laugh all the way to the bank
 
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