Napoleon vs Weber

[Ralph]

True. There's plenty of places that won't allow charcoal or wood fueled grills of any sort but will allow gas. Apartment balconies, HOAs for townhomes and condos, even the upper or second story decks of single family homes in many municipalities. However, gas fueled grills are allowed.

I've been dealing with this at the in-laws' condo. Massachusetts fire (which take precedence over any condo documents) code stipulate that:
1. Only electric grills may be used on porches, balconies, or decks.
2. Propane and solid-fuel grills may be used only if greater than 10 feet from building (tough on people with balconies).
3. Propane and solid-fuel grills may be stored on porches, balconies, or decks once fully cool; propane tank must be disconnected and kept separate from grill.
4. Hard-piped NG and propane grills are permissible with a whole different list of restrictions, but they don't have NG, so does not apply to their condo development.
There are a lot of unhappy residents right now.

Thankfully, in-laws' unit is at ground level- I have an E-210 there, and roll it off the concrete patio and through the grass on the crappy little wheels until I'm 10 feet away from the building. Can't use it on the patio, as it's not big enough to get 10 feet from building, and it's under an upper deck, so that's another issue.

 

[Brian B Atlanta]

True. There's plenty of places that won't allow charcoal or wood fueled grills of any sort but will allow gas. Apartment balconies, HOAs for townhomes and condos, even the upper or second story decks of single family homes in many municipalities. However, gas fueled grills are allowed.

I think you will find in most states that gas grills are not allowed to be used on balconies of apartments, townhomes or condo's. Here is an article since July 4th is coming regarding rules in GA. I believe where I used to come from in MA they are similar. Interesting read the section on insurers as even if there were some exceptions by the counties the insurer's may override that by having their own rules regarding apts or condos or whatever.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ca2be50fb182014577841b8/t/5d248bb78ae38700016e078f/1562676152170/June+2019.pdf

 

[Brian B Atlanta]

Ralph, I think the law in MA has been around for many many years regarding the grills. I left in 1996 but I remember a long time ago that an apt or condo where several units were destroyed from I believe it was a gas grill being used on a balcony, The curtain from the balcony slider or whatever caught on fire when the person was grilling on the balcony. Could have been charcoal can't remember.

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

I've been dealing with this at the in-laws' condo. Massachusetts fire (which take precedence over any condo documents) code stipulate that:
1. Only electric grills may be used on porches, balconies, or decks.
2. Propane and solid-fuel grills may be used only if greater than 10 feet from building (tough on people with balconies).
3. Propane and solid-fuel grills may be stored on porches, balconies, or decks once fully cool; propane tank must be disconnected and kept separate from grill.
4. Hard-piped NG and propane grills are permissible with a whole different list of restrictions, but they don't have NG, so does not apply to their condo development.
There are a lot of unhappy residents right now.

Thankfully, in-laws' unit is at ground level- I have an E-210 there, and roll it off the concrete patio and through the grass on the crappy little wheels until I'm 10 feet away from the building. Can't use it on the patio, as it's not big enough to get 10 feet from building, and it's under an upper deck, so that's another issue.

Our beach house is in Avalon, NJ. Local code permits NG on second story decks but not propane or charcoal. I see folks ignore the propane grill prohibition routinely...never charcoal though. There was a NG stub out on the second story deck along with an old PGS NG grill so I've stuck with NG over the years.

 

[Joe Anshien]

The IR burner works almost as well as my Ronco

View attachment 73179

The Ronco! I had two of them. They made great Turkeys and Chickens. They got me into rotisseries. The only slight issue is there was no temp control and sometimes depending on bird size the skin would get somewhat burnt.

 

[Michael Iron]

The IR burner works almost as well as my Ronco

View attachment 73179

Those working surprising well. The Admiral (2 star upper half) bought a house in SD that 4 of us retired Navy hunt pheasant out of in November. Someone picked up a Ronco at a yard sale for $25 and the prime rib turned out better than I thought it would with it. We even let a couple of retired AF pilots play with us. We don't rough it too bad in SD, might even say it is civilized.

I don't mind taking the grates out when spinning meat on a stick on the gasser

You can see the smoke box to the left but it leaves a lot to be desired. I think Napoleon is onto something with their charcoal smoke tray and wish Weber would come up with something similar. It may even work on a Weber with grates removed and might get one to try with wood chunks and charcoal

If I'm spinning a bird or 2 prefer the kettle by far

But even more so prefer the WSM with roti. The dripping juices on the hot coals take it to another level

4 hours later

 

[Brett-EDH]

Those working surprising well. The Admiral (2 star upper half) bought a house in SD that 4 of us retired Navy hunt pheasant out of in November. Someone picked up a Ronco at a yard sale for $25 and the prime rib turned out better than I thought it would with it. We even let a couple of retired AF pilots play with us. We don't rough it too bad in SD, might even say it is civilized.

I don't mind taking the grates out when spinning meat on a stick on the gasser

You can see the smoke box to the left but it leaves a lot to be desired. I think Napoleon is onto something with their charcoal smoke tray and wish Weber would come up with something similar. It may even work on a Weber with grates removed and might get one to try with wood chunks and charcoal

If I'm spinning a bird or 2 prefer the kettle by far

But even more so prefer the WSM with roti. The dripping juices on the hot coals take it to another level

4 hours later

Love these pics. There’s just something special when I see all these Operators enjoying a bottle of Ménage a Tois while hunting. Epic pics for sure. You do your cooking right!

 

[Joe Anshien]

I have the charcoal basket, but have not gotten around to using it. I have been spinning chickens mostly on the MB800 now that I have the rotisserie attachment. I think it is even better than the WSM and Kettles in the fact that I can start off at 250 for some smoke flavor and gradually remote the temp up to 475 by the end to get crispy skin, while getting a mix of charcoal / wood smoke.
Maybe I should try the next batch of chickens on the Napoleon with the charcoal basket just for the fun of it. Although it would require a lot more attention than watching TV with my Masterbuilt app.

 

[Michael Iron]

I have the charcoal basket, but have not gotten around to using it. I have been spinning chickens mostly on the MB800 now that I have the rotisserie attachment. I think it is even better than the WSM and Kettles in the fact that I can start off at 250 for some smoke flavor and gradually remote the temp up to 475 by the end to get crispy skin, while getting a mix of charcoal / wood smoke.
Maybe I should try the next batch of chickens on the Napoleon with the charcoal basket just for the fun of it. Although it would require a lot more attention than watching TV with my Masterbuilt app.
View attachment 73186

What I do with the WSM and ATC. Although prefer to use the computer instead of the phone app, that is why I got a gateway. Hard to read phone screen with even 3X glasses at this point in my life LOL.

Built a weather proof enclosure for the ATC. And ran a sump pump hose from the forced air fan to the air vent adaptor on the WSM.

Can hold pretty steady for a long time without touching anything. Even when the air temps drop or the wind picks up.

Then toward the end open it up full throttle for the crisp

 

[BFletcher]

@Michael Iron and @Joe Anshien I bought the Napoleon charcoal tray for my S-670. It does not fit on the frame but will rest okay on the flavorizer bars. I experimented with it once but, honestly, I'm still in the mode of babying my Summit and I've decided that I'm hesitant to use it. And in the whole scheme of things if I want smoke or charcoal flavor I should just use one of my smokers or a Kettle, lol.

 

[Michael Iron]

I have a Motorola cell phone now and I like it. I haven't had one from them since the flip phone from the 90's.

When the Motorola RAZR first came out 20 years ago they contracted with Pemstar in Rochester, Mn. to manufacture them. Pemstar was an electronics contract manufacture and most were made at a new plant in China. R&D and engineering services were in Rochester with limited manufacturing, primarily porotypes. Not long after that contract they went public and Celestica ended up buying Pemstar. It was after I left for the Mayo Clinic.

Motorola was the ground leader in mobile technology especially hardware. But lost their way in the software, which caused them to eventually collapse. They ended up splitting into 2 separate companies with Motorola Mobility going to Google who a couple of years later sold it to Lenovo 11-12 years ago.

Lenovo is a Chinese company that also purchased the personal computer division of IBM. IBM has always struggled in the area of PC's. And windows servers for that matter, the x86 Server Division of IBM also ended up with Lenovo.

Lenovo computers have been banned by the State Department for DOD use since 2006. Had to look that date up I knew it has been awhile. Lenovo computers have a nasty habit of having hardware and software that is used for cyber-espionage with the Chinese government.

A current Lenovo made Motorola phone might have Motorola stamped on it. But it is a far cry from what it once was, Motorola no longer exists at least as most of us once knew it.

 

[Brian B Atlanta]

I see folks ignore the propane grill prohibition routinely.

I don't doubt what your saying at all pitty them if something happens as the insurance company is not gonna pay. Now might not happen in a million years who knows.

 

[Brett-EDH]

i don't think the argument is Weber or Napoleon anymore.

i am going to take a big stab here and say that pellet poopers have and are already outselling gassers, both LP and NG.

the gas game is in decline, and probably steep decline.

anyone seeking flavor on their food will buy a pooper because they're just too easy for the masses to make food.

then you have to coal heads. and they're a different beast and price entry point.

weber sell a boatload of 18's and 22's charcoal grills. they're pure profit for weber too.

then you have the WSK, which does sell, but not nearly in the same numbers as a kettle, but i am betting WSK sales are growing and at a consistent rate. i don't see the WSK becoming mainstream and a mass sales unit but it will remain due to its performance and price. hands down it's less expensive than any ceramic kamado and cooks better, IMO.

the SF has to really expand and grow if weber is to take market share in the poopers game.

the value proposition of a $500 pooper vs a gasser, the average person is going to choose that pooper. set it, forget it, smoke it, taste it, and is delivers a better product than any gasser. again IMO.

the weber summit gasser is dead, just waiting to be replaced. but weber hasn't replaced it because it'll die in its current format.

the R&D is in the SF/pooper line. that's where the future sales are.

better to do a few things really well and be profitable than to try and be everything to everyone. we saw where that got weber in the IPO and then take-private.

maybe its best to not want to date every person that looks like a potential date. being selective and really good at something is required for economic success. weber needs to get back to being successful.

i'll get back to work now. i have no horse in this race. i cook with real charcoal and real fire. i don't pay my utilities for anything to cook outside anymore. pure bliss. pass me a cold coors light, please. (don't judge me)

so I just got back from a meeting with a local subdivision sales manager for new homes in Sacramento County.

as of Jan 1 2023, no new homes are being built in Sacramento county (plans approved) that have NG. the homes are spec'd at 100% electric.

so this another stab in the gas grill line, at least for NG grills.

charcoal and poopers will continue to advance their sales and gassers of both flavors will decline in marketshare.

it is what it is. i'll be long gone when this whole things blows up from electrical grid overload.

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

so I just got back from a meeting with a local subdivision sales manager for new homes in Sacramento County.

as of Jan 1 2023, no new homes are being built in Sacramento county (plans approved) that have NG. the homes are spec'd at 100% electric.

so this another stab in the gas grill line, at least for NG grills.

charcoal and poopers will continue to advance their sales and gassers or both flavors will decline in marketshare.

it is what it is. i'll be long gone when this whole things blows up from electrical grid overload.

One county in one state does not equate to a death knell for gas grills. It's also not a direction that several dozen other states are heading.

 

[LMichaels]

One county in one state does not equate to a death knell for gas grills. It's also not a direction that several dozen other states are heading.

Sadly it's not just one county in one state. It's the new "green" movement

 

[Brett-EDH]

One county in one state does not equate to a death knell for gas grills. It's also not a direction that several dozen other states are heading.

yet you're wrong. many cities have and are banning small gas engines. lawnmowers, leaf blowers, edge trimmers.

you can live under the rock. that doesn't bother me.

the trend is against fossil fuels. renewables are where its at, hate it or like it.

these are education links. not political banter.

17 states weigh adopting California's electric car mandate

Seventeen states with vehicle emission standards tied to rules established in California face weighty decisions on whether to follow that state's plan to ban sales of new fuel-powered cars by 2035.

www.cbsnews.com

California to ban sale of gas leaf blowers, lawn mowers in small engine ban

California, Vermont, and Washington D.C. have implemented bans or limits on small gas engines. Starting next year, California will no longer allow the sale of new small gas engines.

www.turnto23.com

U.S. Regulators And State Lawmakers Consider Banning Gas Stoves—Here’s Why

One federal official called natural gas appliances a “hidden hazard” due to health concerns and environmental impacts.

www.forbes.com

and before you come back with a terse comment. save your time. i'd prefer you block me from seeing my posts.

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

yet you're wrong. many cities have and are banning small gas engines. lawnmowers, leaf blowers, edge trimmers.

you can live under the rock. that doesn't bother me.

the trend is against fossil fuels. renewables are where its at, hate it or like it.

these are education links. not political banter.

17 states weigh adopting California's electric car mandate

Seventeen states with vehicle emission standards tied to rules established in California face weighty decisions on whether to follow that state's plan to ban sales of new fuel-powered cars by 2035.

www.cbsnews.com

California to ban sale of gas leaf blowers, lawn mowers in small engine ban

California, Vermont, and Washington D.C. have implemented bans or limits on small gas engines. Starting next year, California will no longer allow the sale of new small gas engines.

www.turnto23.com

U.S. Regulators And State Lawmakers Consider Banning Gas Stoves—Here’s Why

One federal official called natural gas appliances a “hidden hazard” due to health concerns and environmental impacts.

www.forbes.com

and before you come back with a terse comment. save your time. i'd prefer you block me from seeing my posts.

Your "education" links are amusing considering the sources.
How can I block you from seeing your posts and why?

 

[Michael Iron]

Sadly it's not just one county in one state. It's the new "green" movement

True but something good has come out of what has happened in that one County and State.

Since it has happened in just a few months 24 States, almost half of the US, has enacted laws to prevent restricting the use of Natural Gas & propane by local communities and municipalities in those States. And it is growing, others have introduced the same bills which haven't passed yet. Still leaves a number of States open for restrictions, but many States are jumping on board fast. Maybe common sense does still exist... In some places.

 

[LMichaels]

True but something good has come out of what has happened in that one County and State.

Since it has happened in just a few months 24 States, almost half of the US, has enacted laws to prevent restricting the use of Natural Gas & propane by local communities and municipalities in those States. And it is growing, others have introduced the same bills which haven't passed yet. Still leaves a number of States open for restrictions, but many States are jumping on board fast. Maybe common sense does still exist... In some places.

You call that good?!

 

[Shane - glitchy]

I looked at a Napoleon before buying my Costco Genesis. I liked the Napoleon build quality, but have not been impressed with the only place locally that sells them. I thought about an online retailer, but when reading reviews decided I’d rather have the support I’ve gotten from Weber versus risk the hassles I’ve read about with Napoleon.