Napoleon vs Weber


 
and then there is this:

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Gas Grills are America's Favorite - Can They Be Overtaken? - CookOut News

When it comes to fuel sources for grills, every type has it's pros and cons. While technology is advancing, charcoal grills give great flavor but traditionally aren't very convenient, pellet grills are very convenient but lack a little on flavor and are slow to heat up. That brings us to gas...
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Brett-EDH said:
i don't think the argument is Weber or Napoleon anymore.

i am going to take a big stab here and say that pellet poopers have and are already outselling gassers, both LP and NG.

the gas game is in decline, and probably steep decline.

anyone seeking flavor on their food will buy a pooper because they're just too easy for the masses to make food.

then you have to coal heads. and they're a different beast and price entry point.

weber sell a boatload of 18's and 22's charcoal grills. they're pure profit for weber too.

then you have the WSK, which does sell, but not nearly in the same numbers as a kettle, but i am betting WSK sales are growing and at a consistent rate. i don't see the WSK becoming mainstream and a mass sales unit but it will remain due to its performance and price. hands down it's less expensive than any ceramic kamado and cooks better, IMO.

the SF has to really expand and grow if weber is to take market share in the poopers game.

the value proposition of a $500 pooper vs a gasser, the average person is going to choose that pooper. set it, forget it, smoke it, taste it, and is delivers a better product than any gasser. again IMO.

the weber summit gasser is dead, just waiting to be replaced. but weber hasn't replaced it because it'll die in its current format.

the R&D is in the SF/pooper line. that's where the future sales are.

better to do a few things really well and be profitable than to try and be everything to everyone. we saw where that got weber in the IPO and then take-private.

maybe its best to not want to date every person that looks like a potential date. being selective and really good at something is required for economic success. weber needs to get back to being successful.

i'll get back to work now. i have no horse in this race. i cook with real charcoal and real fire. i don't pay my utilities for anything to cook outside anymore. pure bliss. pass me a cold coors light, please. (don't judge me)
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I agree with everything you have stated! I too, have nothing to gain or lose here. IMO, pellet poopers are the new niche, they are geared for the "plug & play" individual that doesn't want to try & maintain temps via coal, wood or gas, yet still get some pretty tasty results. I actually enjoy a long low & slow cook as it is a way of unwinding from the day to day stress & BS of the world we live in, coupled with some libations & a fine cigar, I am good to go!
 
EricV. said:
I agree with everything you have stated! I too, have nothing to gain or lose here. IMO, pellet poopers are the new niche, they are geared for the "plug & play" individual that doesn't want to try & maintain temps via coal, wood or gas, yet still get some pretty tasty results. I actually enjoy a long low & slow cook as it is a way of unwinding from the day to day stress & BS of the world we live in, coupled with some libations & a fine cigar, I am good to go!
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this is exactly what happening in backyards across the land and world.

costco only sells what's going to sell. they do multiple traeger roadhows in a year, all year. they'll floor 4 traegers in a show and sell all models at the various price points. costco offers 1 or 2 gassers for the novelty of it.

all my neighbors are pooper burners. i'm the only charcoal that i can smell or sense. no one is gassing on my block or backyard.

heck, i have a NG stub off my home and it's going to feed the firetable!

people are just too busy these days. a pooper enables them to slow down and smell the roses, as you are doing, and enjoy the process.
 
There is another reason for pellet. Safety. Not wanting to run a stick burner or kettle of any kind on a wood deck. Out in the yard? Sure. But, don't want to be climbing stairs doing a cook to maintain my cook. So it gives me the ability to have the flavor of wood fueled cooking appliance without the worry. If I had a concrete patio in place of my deck, my choice(s) may well have been different. And yes I DO like the ease of use. And why should I or anyone else apologize for that? Or let's take some of the highly insulated kettle type grills. Again I don't see them labeled as doing it "too easy" or not having skills to cook well.
But also judging from that chart it appears outdoor cooking is taking a little shift away from gas and charcoal to flat top griddles and pellet
 
Guess I’m old school. The Kamado E6 may be the easiest grill I’ve ever used.
‘I’ve never cooked on PP, so I cannot comment but at the end of the day I am not sure I see the reason to get one.
I guess it’s to each his own.
 
Mark Foreman said:
Guess I’m old school. The Kamado E6 may be the easiest grill I’ve ever used.
‘I’ve never cooked on PP, so I cannot comment but at the end of the day I am not sure I see the reason to get one.
I guess it’s to each his own.
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No doubt. Again if I had a concrete patio I'd likely have chosen differently. But, it's hard to know since I like many am in the position I am in and a PP was the easiest and safest appliance for my application.
 
LMichaels said:
No doubt. Again if I had a concrete patio I'd likely have chosen differently. But, it's hard to know since I like many am in the position I am in and a PP was the easiest and safest appliance for my application.
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I certainly wouldn’t argue with your reasoning. Didn’t stop to think that all the choices allow many more people to grill and smoke because of their circumstances. Now that’s cool.
 
Joe Anshien said:
I do not have any numbers to contradict what you say but my gut says gas here to stay and the next evolution in gas will be thermostatic temp control. At least I hope so. Gas is cleanest, least expensive, and most convenient grilling available. Temp control will make it more so, and on par with pellets and gravity feeds.
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Gas grills aren't going away anytime soon. I too believe "Smart" technology will become somewhat mainstream with gas grills...Alexa, Siri, hey Google and Nest, Ecobee and Honeywell thermostats. Already doing it with 95% efficient furnaces and Wifi gas ovens.
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
Gas grills aren't going away anytime soon. I too believe "Smart" technology will become somewhat mainstream with gas grills...Alexa, Siri, hey Google and Nest, Ecobee and Honeywell thermostats. Already doing it with 95% efficient furnaces and Wifi gas ovens.
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I don't think gas grills are going anywhere either. I'm also sure you're right about the connectivity becoming ubiquitous among nearly everything. I personally try to keep that to a minimum because I already spend too much time staring at my phone. I have a good friend that connects everything that he has, lights, fans, thermostat, garage door opener, I just can't get that into it. I also find it quite relaxing to sit out on my patio and stare at the grill while I cook something and just enjoy being outside when the weather is nice.
 
Steve Hoch said:
I don't think gas grills are going anywhere either. I'm also sure you're right about the connectivity becoming ubiquitous among nearly everything. I personally try to keep that to a minimum because I already spend too much time staring at my phone. I have a good friend that connects everything that he has, lights, fans, thermostat, garage door opener, I just can't get that into it. I also find it quite relaxing to sit out on my patio and stare at the grill while I cook something and just enjoy being outside when the weather is nice.
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The connectivity stops with the alarm, cameras and WiFi thermostats for me. The ability to turn the heat or AC on or off from 100 miles away in both homes is brilliant. Same with the alarms ...although probably not a 100% necessity. However, I'm with you. I like sitting on a deck and grilling hands on. So far the only thing I use my phone for grilling is a meat temperature app.
 
While there is no doubt from any market survey that pellet poopers are increasing in sales gas is not going away, yet. One of the greatest weaknesses of pellet poopers to me is the lack of actual smoke flavor. And I'm not the only one. On the other hand that is also a strength for them many womenfolk don't care for the real smoke flavor and prefer the lighter flavor of pellets. There are other drawbacks with pellets and why I gave mine away. But sales are doing well for them. And gas grills yet according to those same market reports.

I'm not a big fan of convergence, it is OK up to a point. I do have an ATC for the WSM and even a gateway for it. But I do not leave a burning fire unattended, period. That is crazy talk as far as I am concerned.

I have a wood deck and use charcoal kettles and smokers. With multiple forms of fire suppression available to me. And never turn my back on a fire of any type not even gas. Not optimal but have been in worse situations. During Desert Storm once every 6 days wore this hat.

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Tens of thousands pounds of live ordnance bombs going on and off board every day. Millions of gallons of both jet fuel and diesel fuel marine. And 5,000 shipmates any one of which had the potential to turn us into the world's largest floating bomb.

It is just too dry now here to burn charcoal. First time in almost 25 years living here that I have felt that way. With the Genesis torn down to parade rest kind of puts me in a bind. Especially seeing how I am basically on an Atkins lifestyle diet for years. After I ordered parts found it would take a couple of months to get some of them in from Weber. Didn't have a portable gas grill so I started looking.

One of the things I ran across in my research for portable gas grills is that Weber largest sales is in portable grills. Don't recall if the largest meant revenue or number of grills sold. But giving the number of Q grills sold annually I have a feeling it is both.

Even though I am a huge fan of Weber I did my due diligence. For my needs and requirements I did not end up with a Weber. Just got the pizza oven cart yesterday and put it together last night.

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Joe Anshien said:
Rotisserie Burner with enough rotisserie bar clearance so you do not have to take off the grates and you can cook on both at the same time.
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Joe, Weber improved that on the new model. Genesis II measured about 2.5in from grate to spit. 2022+ measures about 5.5in. How does the Napoleon compare?
 
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Michael Iron said:
While there is no doubt from any market survey that pellet poopers are increasing in sales gas is not going away, yet. One of the greatest weaknesses of pellet poopers to me is the lack of actual smoke flavor. And I'm not the only one. On the other hand that is also a strength for them many womenfolk don't care for the real smoke flavor and prefer the lighter flavor of pellets. There are other drawbacks with pellets and why I gave mine away. But sales are doing well for them. And gas grills yet according to those same market reports.

I'm not a big fan of convergence, it is OK up to a point. I do have an ATC for the WSM and even a gateway for it. But I do not leave a burning fire unattended, period. That is crazy talk as far as I am concerned.

I have a wood deck and use charcoal kettles and smokers. With multiple forms of fire suppression available to me. And never turn my back on a fire of any type not even gas. Not optimal but have been in worse situations. During Desert Storm once every 6 days wore this hat.

22826364526_d60e5c7267_c.jpg


22838835582_78cebdb511_c.jpg


Tens of thousands pounds of live ordnance bombs going on and off board every day. Millions of gallons of both jet fuel and diesel fuel marine. And 5,000 shipmates any one of which had the potential to turn us into the world's largest floating bomb.

It is just too dry now here to burn charcoal. First time in almost 25 years living here that I have felt that way. With the Genesis torn down to parade rest kind of puts me in a bind. Especially seeing how I am basically on an Atkins lifestyle diet for years. After I ordered parts found it would take a couple of months to get some of them in from Weber. Didn't have a portable gas grill so I started looking.

One of the things I ran across in my research for portable gas grills is that Weber largest sales is in portable grills. Don't recall if the largest meant revenue or number of grills sold. But giving the number of Q grills sold annually I have a feeling it is both.

Even though I am a huge fan of Weber I did my due diligence. For my needs and requirements I did not end up with a Weber. Just got the pizza oven cart yesterday and put it together last night.

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True. There's plenty of places that won't allow charcoal or wood fueled grills of any sort but will allow gas. Apartment balconies, HOAs for townhomes and condos, even the upper or second story decks of single family homes in many municipalities. However, gas fueled grills are allowed.
 
Mack Manning said:
Joe, Weber improved that on the new model. Genesis II measured about 2.5in from grate to spit. 2022+ measures about 5.5in. How does the Napoleon compare?
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But the new Weber's (save for Summits) are pretty lame rotisserie machines. When I got the Summit that was my HUGE disappointment in it. And why I ended up taking the "For Sale" sign off my Genesis. The Summit (with front control vs side on the Genesis) was MEH only "OK" at doing spinning. While the Genesis excelled at it.
 
Joe Anshien said:
About time they got to it. Removing grates to use the rotisserie is a design error to me. My Napoleon is at 6" so it can still handle a 1" larger diameter.
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I don't have too much experience with rotisserie cooking but i know one thing for certain, an infrared ceramic burner beats the daylights out of standard gas grill burners for spinning anything.
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
I don't have too much experience with rotisserie cooking but i know one thing for certain, an infrared ceramic burner beats the daylights out of standard gas grill burners for spinning anything.
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Depends on placement. While I was able to use both (Wolf and the Genesis) Wolf has an IR burner, I never noticed one doing "better" rotisserie than the other. The Wolf is definitely EASIER as there is absolutely no threat of an errant flare up. But, better? No. Another good thing is the power and size. I can do 2 turkey on it while the Genesis spinner was barely powerful enough to do one. But, again in a dead even comparison there was no quality of cook difference.
 
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