Napoleon vs Weber


 
I had an afternoon job during high school at the local gas station.

Around 1979 there were gas shortages, odd even days to purchase $5 worth of gas, around 5 gallons.

I so clearly remember on of the regular customers rolling in one day with his newly purchased Japanese car. A lot of grumbling about him buying a “foreign”car, but when he reported what mpg’s he was getting, it quieted down a little.

That was a turning point from what I remember. People were swayed by fuel economy, and were kept on board with reliability.

Not everyone of course, but the tides were turning.
 
Joe Anshien said:
That is one nice setup and some great looking steaks! You are looking pretty happy being grill master there!
Brand loyalty is great up to a point. Sometimes going over to a better brand product is the only way to make that brand better, or relinquish it to history, as the Oldsmobile's I was raised on. My sister was the first in our family by getting a VW Golf. My mom was the second to buy 82 Toyota Supra. They when we were amazed that the cars did not have be in the shop every few months, we never looked back.
I just watched the movie Blackberry. I ran mobile communications for government agencies. 2007 they had 49% of the cell phone market. Today 0%
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My company issued me a Blackberry somewhere around 2007. While I love the name - as I grow and pick blackberries whenever possible - I HATED that thing. Our auditor would come to my office flashing her iPhone, while I tried to suppress my envy.

My office opened up to a bullpen kind of office with our billing and accounting staff. I would regularly entertain them with my rants about my Blackberry saying “I hate you! I hate you! I am going to turn you into a coaster or go to the ocean and skip you across the water like a flat stone!”

My company finally let me have a deal where they partially underwrote my first iPhone. Other than a short dalliance with a Nokia Windows phone (that I actually really liked) it’s been iPhones ever since.
 
DanHoo said:
Did I forget to mention, that was the day I bought the weber summit kamado?

I was not / am not in the market for a gas grill and certainly am not planning to drop $2K on one.
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You did forget to mention that was the day you bought that grill and I forgot to mention I was just kidding you. I'm not so sure I would want a Summit gas grill either at those prices and given what I know about them.
 
All I really know is Weber that's all I've had most of my adult life. Of my eight grills seven are Weber's and one Camp Chef. The youngest Weber is 12 years old the oldest working grill is 25 years old and the gen 2 is 38 years old.
I'm not in the market for a new grill as I'm quite comfortable keeping my fleet of Weber's going and it's nice that I still can get almost any serviceable parts for them.
Yes, I do agree that Weber is not the company it used to be. But in this world, they certainty aren't alone which is sad.
 
I had hopes of reading a unanimous vote in favor of Weber over Napoleon.

Just kidding, lol; I knew this would be a debate. I bought an S-670 in March 2021 after comparing it to the Prestige Pro (I had no available option aside from doing an online comparison). I am nervous about the longevity of the cook box and perhaps I should have placed that component higher on my list of concerns but I am well pleased with it.

This probably isn't accurate, but it seems like it would be more cumbersome to run a grill brush along the curved grates vs straight grates and I, personally, don't like the idea of moving food from the main cooker over to a sear plate.

I do feel fortunate that I bought it before the huge price hikes occurred with both brands.
 
Steve Hoch said:
You did forget to mention that was the day you bought that grill and I forgot to mention I was just kidding you. I'm not so sure I would want a Summit gas grill either at those prices and given what I know about them.
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Oh I knew you were kidding.

But, if last spring I won an in-store contest for any grill up to $2500, I likely would have taken home a Napoleon gasser and not a Summit gasser.

It was hard enough to justify ( to myself ) spending $800 on a "fancy kettle" but since it was $450 off list I just went with it.
 
DanHoo said:
Oh I knew you were kidding.

But, if last spring I won an in-store contest for any grill up to $2500, I likely would have taken home a Napoleon gasser and not a Summit gasser.

It was hard enough to justify ( to myself ) spending $800 on a "fancy kettle" but since it was $450 off list I just went with it.
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Yeah, I hear you. I haven't seen a Napoleon grill in person so I don't know which one I would pick.
 
BFletcher said:
This probably isn't accurate, but it seems like it would be more cumbersome to run a grill brush along the curved grates vs straight grates and I, personally, don't like the idea of moving food from the main cooker over to a sear plate.

I do feel fortunate that I bought it before the huge price hikes occurred with both brands.
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You are lucky on the inflated prices. The curved grates maybe make a little difference with food not falling through, but not enough one way or the other. I use a Weber triangle grill brush and it cleans just as easy as strait grates. The wavy grates do make a Napoleon easy to identify in pictures and videos.
 
There is brand loyalty and there is what I call "blind" brand loyalty. I am loyal to a brand IF the product and the company behind it serve me well. If they don't. Well, I move on. (other than a couple forays into other brands simply because I found deals I could not pass up) I "was" a Weber loyalist. They let me down, they changed the premise of their product, so I moved on. Not to say I would never own one again (as I still own one). Witness I came VERY close to buying a SmokeFire. But as far as medium to large gas grills. Nope. Done. Until if/when they begin to bring back the innovation and quality that made me a loyalist in the first place.
 
Haha. The only available form of communication I had as a cop was Motorola...dominated law enforcement communications then and now. Their cell phones aren't that bad currently either.
 
i don't think the argument is Weber or Napoleon anymore.

i am going to take a big stab here and say that pellet poopers have and are already outselling gassers, both LP and NG.

the gas game is in decline, and probably steep decline.

anyone seeking flavor on their food will buy a pooper because they're just too easy for the masses to make food.

then you have to coal heads. and they're a different beast and price entry point.

weber sell a boatload of 18's and 22's charcoal grills. they're pure profit for weber too.

then you have the WSK, which does sell, but not nearly in the same numbers as a kettle, but i am betting WSK sales are growing and at a consistent rate. i don't see the WSK becoming mainstream and a mass sales unit but it will remain due to its performance and price. hands down it's less expensive than any ceramic kamado and cooks better, IMO.

the SF has to really expand and grow if weber is to take market share in the poopers game.

the value proposition of a $500 pooper vs a gasser, the average person is going to choose that pooper. set it, forget it, smoke it, taste it, and is delivers a better product than any gasser. again IMO.

the weber summit gasser is dead, just waiting to be replaced. but weber hasn't replaced it because it'll die in its current format.

the R&D is in the SF/pooper line. that's where the future sales are.

better to do a few things really well and be profitable than to try and be everything to everyone. we saw where that got weber in the IPO and then take-private.

maybe its best to not want to date every person that looks like a potential date. being selective and really good at something is required for economic success. weber needs to get back to being successful.

i'll get back to work now. i have no horse in this race. i cook with real charcoal and real fire. i don't pay my utilities for anything to cook outside anymore. pure bliss. pass me a cold coors light, please. (don't judge me)
 
Joe Anshien said:
That is one nice setup and some great looking steaks! You are looking pretty happy being grill master there!
Brand loyalty is great up to a point. Sometimes going over to a better brand product is the only way to make that brand better, or relinquish it to history, as the Oldsmobile's I was raised on. My sister was the first in our family by getting a VW Golf. My mom was the second to buy 82 Toyota Supra. They when we were amazed that the cars did not have be in the shop every few months, we never looked back.
I just watched the movie Blackberry. I ran mobile communications for government agencies. 2007 they had 49% of the cell phone market. Today 0%
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Well you made me go look and just rented it. Took me awhile to find it because out of habit typed in Crapberry.

My first programing language in college was APL, a programing language. In 1976. Taught my oldest son both Apple and Windows Systems along with Nix. He is a SysAdmin in Boston now at a BioTech company.

The analogy to vehicles is fair IMO. With part of my first reenlistment bonus I bought a FJ55 Landcruiser Iron Pig ~1981 in Washington State. It was a fantastic vehicle and I went everywhere with it. And I mean everywhere.

23444438242_b2e56ef7bd.jpg


Got married and it was the first thing the now Ex wanted to go. After that had GM, Ford and Dodge for rigs and family vehicles. Major issues with all of them. So 10 years ago in 2013 went back to Toyota and a Taco this time

49512514222_0b8abc1d7c_b.jpg


Daily driver and got the Polaris to take the off road duty away from it. But it still runs like a top.

Bought my Genesis in 2015 so is 2 years newer and the cookbox rotted (burned) out. Cart rotted out. Manifold rusted and fell off. I don't think it is too much to ask for a gas grill to last as long as my truck is it?!
 
Totally agree with you that Weber needs to keep pushing ahead in pellet grills. They have made the SmokeFIre a better grill than many believe. (I base that on feedback here since I have never owned one.) But I can't see Lowes taking them back let alone any of the other big box stores that chose not to put them on the floor in the first place.

If I were Weber I would first strike first with a "Pellet Performer" which would be an easy trick for them. Lots of kettle goodies could be easily adapted to give Recteq a run for the money on the kettle shaped pellet grill market. Then keep working on a new model with better materials and features honed by past experience. Try really hard to get that one in stores along with the online push.
 
I would like to think I am not blindly loyal to Weber. I have called them out a number of times for things like thin fireboxes, cheap stainless or worse yet painted steel, and for the "Limited Edition" red kettle fiasco. However, I do love Weber's history and the many stylish grills they have made and continue to make. While my heart is in the older, rugged Genesis gas grills, I have come t accept that most buyers of gas grills aren't looking for that anymore. So, you can't blame Weber for adjusting to what the majority of people want. I might one day even own the current model - despite its flaws, but like most of my grills it will be a used one that I fix up. I am also still on the hunt for an open cart crimson Genesis II with the sear burner. I would have a hard time turning down the opportunity to restore one of those.
 
Brett-EDH said:
i don't think the argument is Weber or Napoleon anymore.

i am going to take a big stab here and say that pellet poopers have and are already outselling gassers, both LP and NG.

the gas game is in decline, and probably steep decline.

anyone seeking flavor on their food will buy a pooper because they're just too easy for the masses to make food.

then you have to coal heads. and they're a different beast and price entry point.

weber sell a boatload of 18's and 22's charcoal grills. they're pure profit for weber too.

then you have the WSK, which does sell, but not nearly in the same numbers as a kettle, but i am betting WSK sales are growing and at a consistent rate. i don't see the WSK becoming mainstream and a mass sales unit but it will remain due to its performance and price. hands down it's less expensive than any ceramic kamado and cooks better, IMO.

the SF has to really expand and grow if weber is to take market share in the poopers game.

the value proposition of a $500 pooper vs a gasser, the average person is going to choose that pooper. set it, forget it, smoke it, taste it, and is delivers a better product than any gasser. again IMO.

the weber summit gasser is dead, just waiting to be replaced. but weber hasn't replaced it because it'll die in its current format.

the R&D is in the SF/pooper line. that's where the future sales are.

better to do a few things really well and be profitable than to try and be everything to everyone. we saw where that got weber in the IPO and then take-private.

maybe its best to not want to date every person that looks like a potential date. being selective and really good at something is required for economic success. weber needs to get back to being successful.

i'll get back to work now. i have no horse in this race. i cook with real charcoal and real fire. i don't pay my utilities for anything to cook outside anymore. pure bliss. pass me a cold coors light, please. (don't judge me)
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I do not have any numbers to contradict what you say but my gut says gas here to stay and the next evolution in gas will be thermostatic temp control. At least I hope so. Gas is cleanest, least expensive, and most convenient grilling available. Temp control will make it more so, and on par with pellets and gravity feeds.
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
Haha. The only available form of communication I had as a cop was Motorola...dominated law enforcement communications then and now. Their cell phones aren't that bad currently either.
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Dad and his oldest brother worked for many years there. Dad starting in early 50s and his oldest brother right after he was discharged from the Navy after WWII. Spent his entire life there until retirement. Both he and my dad worked in the communications division dealing mostly with police and fire radios. Even my first factory job was partly responsible for Motorola Communications Equipment. I helped make the speaker housing surrounds
 
Joe Anshien said:
I do not have any numbers to contradict what you say but my gut says gas here to stay and the next evolution in gas will be thermostatic temp control. At least I hope so. Gas is cleanest, least expensive, and most convenient grilling available. Temp control will make it more so, and on par with pellets and gravity feeds.
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i challenge that statement with what's happening here in CA and other places. fossil fuels will be regulated out of business over time. renewable and cleaner fuels are the trend.

and the market shows that poopers hold the consumer's eye and wallet. go to any store, Costco, Sams, Orange or Blue box and it's poopers everywhere with a singular to dual sampling of gassers.

i gladly moved off of gas to due a substantially improved cooking experience (no need to sell it here as you already know).

grilling or smoking today is a glorious time. we have more choices than ever and the coals/briqs/pellets and proteins to choose from is more diverse than ever. just look. my costco routinely has 20 packer briskets in their case at any time. it wasn't like this 5 years ago.

no arguments from me here. i'm only sharing what i'm seeing around me.
 
( I italicize things I copy and paste and include a reference link)

Charcoal Strikes Back

According to the study, much of the growth came from charcoal grill purchases. In 2019, they represented 49% of ownership. In 2021, they jumped to 65%. Gas maintained the high position it’s held for many years at 63%.

“Gas grills remain the most consistently popular type of grill, but the data indicate that, as consumers added more grills to their backyard patios, charcoal was their top choice,” Goldman noted. “In addition, we see wood pellet ownership increasing three-fold in the past two years, from 3% of all grill owners to a considerable 9%. These huge gains in both charcoal and pellet grills indicate that consumers, for the first time in a while, had more time at home and turned to slower, more leisurely cooking techniques.”
 
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