Genesis ll thoughts


 
Still doesn't make it right and still won't make me part with hard earned $$$$ for anything they make any more. IMO they're no better than any other importer. And I think that there are better ways to spend the money
 
KyleFPoole said:
With the discounts that were going on, I ended up paying about $60 more for the new grill than I did the old in unadjusted dollars. The e410 was on sale for $560 and the Silver was right at $500 if I remember correctly.

I had no issues with the Silver. I'd upgraded the flavorizer bars to nice stainless a few years back, replaced the igniter a few times and the regulator once. The grates were getting close to needing replacement, and the where the grease tray connected to the firebox had cracked. Our family had grown as well, so I started looking at 4 burner Summits to refurb, but they were expensive and prone to rust, and the new ones were on closeout - so easy decision.

I'm not a fan of Weber outsourcing to China, but given the dynamics of the market today, it's hard to fault them. Large retailers like Walmart, Amazon and Home Depot own the customer, and the customer responds to price (just like I do). Most will look at "5 burner, stainless steel, infrared blah blah blah" Nextgrill for $199 that will rust out in 12 months and think it's a much better deal than a Weber Spirit for $300 that will last a decade or more. Same with the charcoal grills. The Kettle for $99 will last 10 times longer than the cheap grills for half the price, but I"m sure they sell a lot more of the cheap ones.

pGI06KM.jpg
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Pretty cool to see old and new side by side like that.
 
Yes, that is a cool picture. I do like the higher stance the new grill has. A 4-burner is a nice compromise between a "regular" size 3-burner and a monster 6-burner.

I think your picture shows that the new grills are pretty stylish, at least in my opinion - and especially in that sharp brick red:). I think the old carts are more rugged, but at least they brought back the open cart concept in the Genesis II. The tank shroud is a nice touch and better than trying to stash it under the grill close to the heat. Weber used to always brag about that but then did a 180 and did that in the last two generations of the Genesis 300 (and some Spirits, too). I am glad they went back to their roots with the side tank and full size wheels on the right. If that new cart was made of good quality stainless, I think it would be an awesome grill. Since it isn't the burden is on the owner to really care for it to prevent rust.
 
LMichaels said:
Still doesn't make it right and still won't make me part with hard earned $$$$ for anything they make any more. IMO they're no better than any other importer. And I think that there are better ways to spend the money
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Larry,

I agree with the "better ways to spend your money" comment, because the same money (or most likely a LOT less) would buy you a perfectly restored, classic, USA Made, real Genesis grill. Better built. Maybe even get one with wood slats and have something with real charm as well.

I wish I could be a mediator for you and Weber. They really stung you very badly and by all means should apologize and make it right to you. I guess that will never happen, and I know that Weber is now owned by private equity :p and having experienced that in my own career, I am not surprised by all the changes we have seen. The "limited" red kettle stands as the most glaring example of getting something with so much potential so VERY wrong.

Still, I don't think Nexgrill, Charbroil, Member's Mark (grillmaker of the week), or even Broil King have anything to brag about regarding the same issues. All but Broil King outsource to China and they are all companies without family ownership or the personal care and touch that this brings. I miss George:george: for certain... So, I feel that these offerings should be compared apple to apple. Maybe, on that basis, Broil King would be appealing. But, I don't think their grills are better or even as good as comparable new Webers. The rest, to me, aren't even close. So comparing profit-oriented, non-family owned companies and their respective offerings I don't see Weber as any worse of a company than the others. And, I still find that their grills seem better than the competition at that level.

That is one thing I really like about Rec-Tec. Although the do import most parts from China, they assemble them in Georgia and most importantly sell and support them as a true family-owned company. The owners are enthusiastic lovers of bbq and seem to care very much about improving quality and making customers feel special. They even give you a cell phone number to the owners themselves!
 
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I agree Jon. It's a good looking grill. My brothers is the version with the stainless hood. I like the enamel hood better.

A stainless cart would be nice. But IMO the genesis II cart looks stout and similar to the old genesis grills carts that also weren't stainless but have lasted very well.
 
Greg M said:
I agree Jon. It's a good looking grill. My brothers is the version with the stainless hood. I like the enamel hood better.

A stainless cart would be nice. But IMO the genesis II cart looks stout and similar to the old genesis grills carts that also weren't stainless but have lasted very well.
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Greg,

I agree with that assessment. The new frame does have some similarities to the older Genesis Platinum/Gold (and first Summit). It seems a lot better than the previous 300 series arrangement, particularly with the open cart option. If you are stuck, like me, with a high humidity, salt-air environment and no indoor storage, I think you have to expect to put some serious extra effort toward rust prevention and probably touch ups. You can't just leave one sitting out facing a ocean breeze and expect nothing bad to happen. That is reasonable. I just wish Weber would consider bringing back a "Platinum" option (like in 2005-6), at whatever higher cost is needed, to allow a buyer in my situation to have a choice.

You may remember my posts about Broilmasters. I couldn't believe how I found the leftover pieces I picked up from the guy I bought a bunch of stuff from. They were just left out in the yard uncovered, for who knows how long. No issues other than faded paint on the aluminum firebox and hood. Easily restored to a super nice grill. Any regular steel grill left out like that in coastal South Florida would have disintegrated! While Broilmasters are high-priced and definitely homely, I really respect their rugged simplicity and how well they work. And they do really still make them in the USA. I don't put them in the same competitive class as Weber, because they are higher priced and sold only at limited grill dealers.
 
If a guy lived in a coastal state such as Florida or Alabama or Louisiana or California or the East coast, how far inland would you want to live to not have to deal with the "coastal salt air environment"?
 
Bruce said:
If a guy lived in a coastal state such as Florida or Alabama or Louisiana or California or the East coast, how far inland would you want to live to not have to deal with the "coastal salt air environment"?
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Good question that this CPA doesn't really know the exact answer to. I think it is really only a big deal if you are within a few miles of the ocean as far as salt air. For humidity, Florida has it everywhere (as do some other southern states and the Pacific NW). I live probably less than a mile due west of the ocean. On really windy days you can sometimes hear the ocean surf roar. Plus, I live very, very close to the intracoastal waterway which is basically salt water. The wind blows pretty steady from the east bringing salt and moisture kind of like a box fan blowing with someone spraying mist and dropping powdered salt in front of it:eek:. You can imagine what that does to steel, wood and many other materials. My soffit panels on the east side of my manufactured home completely corroded in a few years (some kind of metal), while the rest on the other three sides were fine. I replaced the east side with plastic soffit which doesn't rust but still catches all that stuff and starts looking dirty in no time.

My grills are all outside, mostly with covers. My deck is on the east, unfortunately, but at least it is elevated which helps on the moisture front a little. Still, on most mornings the covers are drenched in dew. At least the covers help ward off some of the salt air and the hot sunshine which fades out everything:(, especially black plastic and things like thermoset tables. It is a tough environment, but we don't have the winters some of you have to cope with, and I don't ever expect to wake up to a "thermal seismic event!"
 
Broil King would be appealing. But, I don't think their grills are better or even as good as comparable new Webers. The rest, to me, aren't even close. So comparing profit-oriented, non-family owned companies and their respective offerings I don't see Weber as any worse of a company than the others. And, I still find that their grills seem better than the competition at that level.

At least on a comparable level they're only about 1/2 the price of Weber. BTW I am not basing my judgement against them on how they "burned" me with the Summit. Simply on them being imposters. Maybe there is a better word for it but it's how I feel about them. Not saying I would not by an over seas made grill, just that I would spend my $$$ more wisely than parting with nearly $1000 for not much of a step up over another $400 import. They're NOT that good. I have looked at them side by side and I don't see the value anymore I really don't.
 
LMichaels said:
Broil King would be appealing. But, I don't think their grills are better or even as good as comparable new Webers. The rest, to me, aren't even close. So comparing profit-oriented, non-family owned companies and their respective offerings I don't see Weber as any worse of a company than the others. And, I still find that their grills seem better than the competition at that level.

At least on a comparable level they're only about 1/2 the price of Weber. BTW I am not basing my judgement against them on how they "burned" me with the Summit. Simply on them being imposters. Maybe there is a better word for it but it's how I feel about them. Not saying I would not by an over seas made grill, just that I would spend my $$$ more wisely than parting with nearly $1000 for not much of a step up over another $400 import. They're NOT that good. I have looked at them side by side and I don't see the value anymore I really don't.
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I won't keep beating this dead horse, but I think it is worthy of some further group consideration. Here are two ads from the BBQ Guys website. Compare the Weber I have lined up against a similar Broil King. Price identical. To my eye, the Weber looks like a better grill, certainly more stylish (although, for $50 LESS you can have the OPEN CART which I myself would choose).

What do you all think?

https://www.bbqguys.com/weber-grill...edition-propane-gas-grill-black-61016201-2019

https://www.bbqguys.com/broil-king/...anding-propane-gas-grill-black#specifications
 
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I think broil king is a pretty good grill. Certainly better than the plethora of el cheapo char broils and the like. But the guys at my local outdoor center that sell that brand really don't like them that much. They say the stainless is ALL low grade and the burners need fairly frequent replacement. They say weber and especially broilmaster are just better made grills.

If I were buying a new grill i would go with the basic genesis below. It's like a more modern version of the old 1000 and silver B grills. I just don't see what's not to like? Sturdy open cart frame. Quality stainless. 10 year warranty. And at $700 it's the best value by far in a new grill. At least IMHO.

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01IF1GV4E/tvwb-20
 
Oh yea, Greg, that is definitely a better value.

I was trying to find a closely matched pair of Weber vs. Broil King grills. I actually think Broil King is worth a look. But you can’t say that they are half the price or even significantly less than Weber. Price-wise the two competitively similar grills are the same.

If someone fronted me a grand and said I had to buy one of those two $999 grills, the Weber would be my choice by a long ways. That is a subjective opinion, but I would like to hear if others agree.
 
So I was able to flip both a Broil King 4 burner with side burner (Baron) and Weber Genesis II E-310 because I was able to get them at dirt cheap prices (Lowes and Walmart clearances. I posted them both on OfferUp and CL and the Weber was the easy sell because of the brand name and I was able to sell it at almost 3 times the cost I got it for. It took about 2 weeks to sell it. The Broil King took about 2 months and I was only able to sell it for almost twice for what I paid so I made a little profit. Yah, the Broil King is still made in North America but I think the masses already know the Weber name and would go for that one even though they're offshore made...it is what it is I guess.
 
Sam,
I think that it is for sure that the Weber name still carries a lot more clout in the resale market. I am just trying to think through about Larry’s contention that Weber is now completely riding on its past reputation when in fact their grills are now no better than similar competitors and, if anything, overpriced. I believe, at least, that is a fair summary of what he has said.

Thinking as a buyer rather than a restorer, my feeling is that Webers are still better than their similarly-marketed competitors. The two grills I posted I believe give a clear and fair comparison at least between identically priced, similar offerings from both Weber and Broil King.

What is your take if you had to choose one of them for your own use?
 
Jon Tofte said:
Sam,
I think that it is for sure that the Weber name still carries a lot more clout in the resale market. I am just trying to think through about Larry’s contention that Weber is now completely riding on its past reputation when in fact their grills are now no better than similar competitors and, if anything, overpriced. I believe, at least, that is a fair summary of what he has said.

Thinking as a buyer rather than a restorer, my feeling is that Webers are still better than their similarly-marketed competitors. The two grills I posted I believe give a clear and fair comparison at least between identically priced, similar offerings from both Weber and Broil King.

What is your take if you had to choose one of them for your own use?
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Well, I do have a Genesis II so I kept a Weber. And that was based on research, word of mouth, customer service and aftermarket support. I do kind of agree with Larry though, Weber's are overpriced (since they are made in China nowadays like almost everything else) and they are kind of riding on their past reputation but it does look like they can back up their rep with the good customer service they provide (to most of us anyways) and the aftermarket support.
 
I was at Home Depot today. (No cool sales at my store:(.) I had time to kill while I waiting for one of our donors to call me to clarify what he was looking for us to get in a project we are doing. So I had time to peruse the grill section.

They had the usual assortment of Nexgrill, Dynasomethingorother, and a couple other makes of similar construction. These grills were all priced well below the Weber grills of similar size. This, presumably, would be supporting evidence in an argument that Weber charges too much for Chinese manufactured grills in comparison to these brands. However, all of these grills were clearly of significantly inferior construction. I can't really agree that there is no difference. None had aluminum fireboxes. Underneath the low-grade stainless was just painted steel. I wouldn't give any of them more than two years safe use in our environment.

They also had KitchenAid which were priced higher but still below Weber. These looked somewhat better, but still had very dubious fireboxes and construction. Our Home Depot didn't have Broil King grills. I have seen one or two at Lowes and agree that they are also better than the low-end brands I mentioned before. Broil King is a worthy competitor to Weber in my view. But, I would point anyone back to the comparison I posted above. Look at the Weber $999 grill vs. the Broil King $999 equivalent. I still think Weber wins. I would love to hear what others think.

Now, sure, their are $1,800 and even $4K or $5K grills that are in a whole different league above Weber. But looking at the crop in Home Depot, at that level of competition, my money would be on Weber.

Of course, my real money would be spent on a nicely restored classic Weber that I still think is much better. But, for those wanting a brand-new grill and who can afford it, I honestly don't feel they would be getting a poor quality grill. Much to the contrary, especially with an open cart and stainless inside upgrades.
 
Honestly for all the looking I have done at the Chinese stuff I don't see the big differences you folks all talk about. Yeah the cast fire box but IMO it's not worth $500 or more in cost difference. In the 10 year "warranty period" of the Genesis (which given the fast design changes and so on I doubt will be of much use like the warranty on my Summit not worth the paper it's printed on) as they (Weber) will always find a way out if they don't want to support the model anymore. So in 10 years I could buy 2 or 3 NEW grills and still be money ahead. Face it. Weber is not the same benevolent company you all believe them to be anymore :(
 
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