Dual Fuel Ovens.


 
On the burner? usually breaded fried chicken or chops/steaks.
In the oven? Deep dish pizza, corn bread or a whole chicken over veggies.
 
BillSmith said:
Ceiling exposed means that you can see the joists (wood) because there's no sheetrock covering the ceiling. Since you don't have a basement, I guess they would run the pipe from the garage through your attic. Or they could run it on the outside of the house. Personally I would go with the attic. I guess when you meet with the plumber to get quote, you should ask them questions on how they propose to do the work. 110 ft it a lot of piping but the materials are cheap. The amount of time and the cost per hour is what will be the largest cost.
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Arun L. said:
Thanks for sharing your experience.

I don't have a basement.

The gas pipe coming from the meter is diagonally from where the kitchen is. So if I am looking at the house, the gas meter is on the front right.

The kitchen is in the back left.

One of the estimates that I just got said it would be for about 110 feet.

There is no pipe at all near the kitchen. The only gas I've had so far was to the furnace, which is in the garage, near the gas meter.

What did you mean by "ceiling exposed"?

I am also asking these contractors for estimates to run a water line to the fridge, so I can finally use the water and ice from the fridge.

However, the fridge is on the opposite side of the sink. The sink is near an exterior wall. The fridge is not near an exterior wall, it is adjacent to an interior wall. So this isn't looking like something that can be done cleanly either.

One of the plumbers suggested moving the fridge so it's near an exterior wall.

I could do that, but it would block 5 - 6 inches of a window. Maybe more, depending on how tightly next to the counter, they put the fridge. I have to think about it.
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Arun L. said:
Yes, the two plumbers that came looked at my attic but said it can't be done that way, since there is no access from there to the kitchen. I have 2 attic entrances. One upstairs. One downstairs in the garage.

I've only received an estimate from one of them so far.

The one that gave the estimate said it would have to go around the front of the house.

I still have a few more scheduled.
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I still have a few more estimates scheduled.

But Estimate # 1 is having the gas line go through walls, so it's not as exposed. I did just ask them for a visual illustration, so I can see how exactly they're routing it, since they've now had a few days to think about it, since the estimate appointment.

They did provide a little bit of a description, but if they can provide a visual, it would also be good.

I also asked them if they could run it along the side of the house, and they said they could do that too, it's just it would be exposed.

Estimate # 2 is having it go along the front of the house, from the front right, to the back left.

I guess the question I have now is that is it better to have a gas line thought the walls, or have it exposed?
 
Arun L. said:
I guess the question I have now is that is it better to have a gas line thought the walls, or have it exposed?
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Pros and cons to both, I guess. If you ever have to get to them, easier if they're exposed. But if they're exposed, you have to see them.
 
Had a 3rd appointment.

He was contemplating going through the attic, down the back of the house, then through the back of the kitchen cabinets.

I have some storm drain pipes so he can't go down the back, then to the side, directly.

But then after thinking about it, he doesn't think it would pass a permit inspection. So he suggested going underground.

I think I like this, but will have to think about it. And see the written estimate.
 
If it's going to be a lot of work, maybe it's better to stick with electric stoves? I would seriously consider having an induction cooktop if I were you.

I also don't understand your comment about the kitchen not being accessible from the attic. Is it a cathedral ceiling? There's always the possibility of opening up the ceiling/walls as sheetrock can always be replaced but it does make the project more complicated. Still, I think sticking with electric might be the best option for you.
 
BillSmith said:
If it's going to be a lot of work, maybe it's better to stick with electric stoves? I would seriously consider having an induction cooktop if I were you.

I also don't understand your comment about the kitchen not being accessible from the attic. Is it a cathedral ceiling? There's always the possibility of opening up the ceiling/walls as sheetrock can always be replaced but it does make the project more complicated. Still, I think sticking with electric might be the best option for you.
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One of the contractors wants to route the gas line through the attic. But because the attic is above the garage, and doesn't extend to the kitchen, they have to go through walls, or route it through the attic, to the back of the house, then around the side.

Yes, as you mentioned, this contractor wanted to open up the ceiling and walls, but as you said, it also makes it more complicated.

The 3rd contractor wants to route the gas line underground. That seems less invasive, and also cleaner, right now. I'm still getting more details from the different contractors so I can fully understand their plan.

It seems like a lot of my cookware has become demagnetized to the point where magnets don't stick to it. I tried several different magnets on a lot of them. Magnets seem to stick to the sides, better than the bottom.

I think if someone made a dual induction and gas stove, that would provide a lot different options.

I don't think an induction stove works that well on ceramic cookware either?
 
There are lots of cookware that a magnet will not stick to but has enough content to work just fine on induction. Case in point. All Clad stainless will not stick to a magnet. (at least mine doesn't) but is labeled as induction compatible. Even most aluminum cookware made today is made to be compatible (though results vary). I would not let a magnet not sticking be your driving point. And yes ceramic cookware is not compatible at all
 
LMichaels said:
There are lots of cookware that a magnet will not stick to but has enough content to work just fine on induction. Case in point. All Clad stainless will not stick to a magnet. (at least mine doesn't) but is labeled as induction compatible. Even most aluminum cookware made today is made to be compatible (though results vary). I would not let a magnet not sticking be your driving point. And yes ceramic cookware is not compatible at all
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Thank you. I am new to the idea of induction ovens, and didn't know anything about them until a few days ago. I had read that using a magnet was supposed to be the test, so that's what I had gone by, until your post.
 
The 4th contractor made things sound easy.

Run the gas line from the front right, clamping it along the lower part of the outside wall. Clamp it across the bottom of the outside chimney. Clamp it on the lower part of the back. Then enter the back left, where the kitchen is.

He measured it as 60 feet.

So just clamping the pipe along the outside, sounds like one of the easier solutions.
 
Yeah especially if the use one of the more modern type piping i.e. CSST, plastic, and such. No corrosion, fewer joints to have possible leaks and so on. And WAY easier/faster install than black iron
 
It’s always about finding the right contractor! I had several very snotty and dismissive conversations about some electrical upgrades during the kitchen remodel. I was lucky, I’ve known the guy I eventually booked, and even through the Covid pandemic concerns, the job was done properly and respectfully with regard to the project and safety.
This firm will continue to be my “Go to” until one or the other of us dies!
My electrician Rocks!!
Same kind of thing with a leaking water supply line, the older guy looked at it and said “If we get lucky...” then we proceeded to pull ten feet of old pipe and replaced with PEX, while he was working he told me about why he liked it, I’m sold! When the “old guy” plumber tells you he used it in his place, it was fairly clear to me. We got lucky!
 
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Induction is faster than gas, safer, doesn’t heat up the kitchen, emits no combustion fumes, more energy efficient, you get a nice flat surface which is easy to keep clean ...
Since we went induction, more than 15 years ago, we’ve never looked back, still have a gas stove in our caravan but even there we added a portable induction single cooker.
You might have to replace some pans but most stainless and all cast iron will work and I can’t imagine that it’s cheaper to install gas than to replace some cookware.
The only benefit I see is with gas is that the gas stove will work if you have a power outage, other than that I really don’t see any reason to even consider gas. Even if gas is cheaper the total bill per month wont be much higher, maybe even lower if you don’t have to run the ac to cool down your kitchen.
So, for me, there is no real question.
Mikael
 
MikaelB said:
Induction is faster than gas, safer, doesn’t heat up the kitchen, emits no combustion fumes, more energy efficient, you get a nice flat surface which is easy to keep clean ...
Since we went induction, more than 15 years ago, we’ve never looked back, still have a gas stove in our caravan but even there we added a portable induction single cooker.
You might have to replace some pans but most stainless and all cast iron will work and I can’t imagine that it’s cheaper to install gas than to replace some cookware.
The only benefit I see is with gas is that the gas stove will work if you have a power outage, other than that I really don’t see any reason to even consider gas. Even if gas is cheaper the total bill per month wont be much higher, maybe even lower if you don’t have to run the ac to cool down your kitchen.
So, for me, there is no real question.
Mikael
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Thanks.

Does anyone else want to share their experience, of having an induction range?
 
If it was 10-20 years from now I would probably say we are all ready for induction. Or if you have really not much existing cookware, and are just starting a collection, sure. But if you have a ton of stuff you love that you accumulated thru the years I would go gas all the way!

I took culinary courses and all my chefs recommended to always make sure you find a house or living situation with gas.
 
My wife and I have had 2 dual fuel ranges and have shopped across multiple brands for both.

Currently we have the JennAir version of the KitchenAid. Overall would not recommend the Whirlpool brand unless you get an extended warranty. Service has been out 3 times and we were actually given a NEW range after the 2nd failure. but after a year of no issues I still don't trust it. Our neighbor has the exact model you listed and they have had service out once. Maybe it was a bad year for the units, but just keep that in mind.

Despite the manual saying otherwise, our breaker had to be upgraded from a 30 to a 40 amp to keep from blowing when the range ran for more than about an hour. The control panel gets over 100 degrees when you are running the oven. Whirlpool says that is "by design," but I don't like the digital control panel to get that hot.

The GE's and LG's we looked at just seemed... cheap. plastic knobs just asking to melt and overall didn't give us a good feeling. The cast iron grates also were junky on the other brands, so we ended up going with last-years-model of the JennAir for 70% off. We had a Bosch unit at our old house and it was fantastic. High quality and had some neat features like fast preheat and built in gap filler to give it a "built in" look.

The oval shaped burner is fine. You'll use it more than you think if you have a dutch oven. Our unit included a "griddle" insert, but it went straight in the junk drawer, never to be seen again.

My issue with induction is that you are dealing with glass. IF you cook with cast iron or similar, you are gonna scratch the hell out of it and a dropped pot could be an expensive mistake. If you are careful and have pans that use it (magnetic) then it is definitely the best technology out there.
 
Does the brand Creda still exist? Or is it now part of Hotpoint, for cooking ranges? Or is Hotpoint now part of GE?
 
@Chris Allingham

I'm considering getting a stub out riser line installed near my gas grill.

However, I currently have a Weber Skyline Genesis Propane grill.

From reading this post:

tvwbb.com

HOW TO: Gas Conversion

Over the past few years, we have seen more and more people refurbishing vintage Weber gas grills, and along with this comes an increasing number of questions about gas conversion between liquid propane (LP) and natural gas (NG). In the old days, Weber would sell you the parts needed to convert...
tvwbb.com tvwbb.com

It sounds like the manifold on the propane grill would have to be replaced, and it's not recommended, due to the complexity.

So I guess the stub out will be useful if I ever get another grill, this time natural gas.

Is this correct?

Also, most of the pictures in that thread won't open.
 
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