Crutching ONLY through the stall???


 
Rusty Breaux

Rusty Breaux

TVWBB Fan
So in the never ending attempt to make my brisket better, I was looking at MickHLR's most recent brisket on his new WSM. The bark on his brisket looked eerily like the one i had on my last porkbutt. Both were cooked uncrutched.

My issue being, I prefer to not use a Guru type device and am not willing to babysit the Weber for 17 hours to fight though a 6 hour stall, BUT i still want that crust.

HERE IS THE QUESTION: Does anyone crutch a brisket at 160 to get it through the stall, THEN unwrap it and let it cook for the next 4 or so hours unwrapped?

It seems this would fight us though the stall AND still get that fabulous crust that we all love so much. I dont know if this is a novel idea or not, but just curious of thoughts on it.

20160313_232318_zpsf51mgmcd.jpg

OOO THAT CRUST!!

thanks
rb
 
Interesting concept Rusty...and thanks for the kind words. What I used to do on my old stick burners, and may be one reason I never worried about stalls, is automatically after about 4 hours (I got this time back before instant read thermometers would tell you the internal temp in a second) I'd just crank up my temp to 300*-325* for about an hour, then bring her back down...and normally that would get me past it. But, I can't imagine trying to do that with a WSM, as it would take so much longer for the temp to get back to normal. But, your idea sounds logical. Surely, someone has tried it. I'm still playing with mine...and I really don't like to wrap at all, except occasionally in butcher paper. But, I'm still working on learning the WSM, and I think my next brisket I'm going to run about 250*, and hopefully finish in 12-14 hours. You're right...17 hours at 230* was too long for me. That's the longest I've ever smoked anything in my life. I know Wayne Mueller at Louie Mueller Barbecue, and Aaron Franklin at Franklin's both do their briskets about 275* for about 12 hours, they say. So, I'll just keep going up until I find something that works for me.

Hey, that looks like my pork butt too!! LOL!!

IMG_7423_zpswglcax3u.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
I'd thought about that myself. The current wisdom on the stall is that it's caused by evaporative cooling of the meat -- as surface moisture evaporates, it has a cooling effect, so the internal temp stalls until the surface of the meat stops giving off moisture.

So if you crutch through the stall and then unwrap, will the meat cool down as the surface moisture of the unwrapped meat starts to evaporate? I have never tried it and would be interested in knowing if it works. I suppose a big question would be, "At what temperature do you unwrap?"

I'm a no-wrap cook myself, but I had a butt stall at 170 last week for about 6 hours. If I could avoid the wait and still get a nice bark, I might go out and buy some foil.

Jeff
 
I think if you unwrap you'll just get a 2nd stall at that point. The stall is caused by evaporative cooling of the meat, which I imagine is when that crust is forming. So, some advocate waiting until your bark is set and then wrapping. If you simply wrap at 150 to avoid the stall you'll have no bark whatsoever.
 
That surface moisture comes from the meat fiber as it is tightening. Water is being forced out. If you wait until this process ends, or lessens considerably, you should be ok.
 
Interesting thoughts. I came across the thought by accident while doing my last pork butt. I wrapped it around 160 and it climbed to about 195 very quickly. So I unwrapped it to get the last 10 is degrees unwrapped to dry the outside out a little. WELLLLLL apparently i put the probe in the wrong part of the meat because after I unwrapped it, i was much closer to 180* and it ended up rolling for another 3 or so hours. My 5lb butt took 12 hours. I wouldnt say it got caught in another stall, but it definitely cooks slower unwrapped extending the cook time id say.

hhmmmmmm.. SO this is what im thinking: start it off unwrapped running at about 260 until i have a lovely crust and get caught at about 160ish.. . wrap this bad boy for a couple hours which should hopefully get me to 175ish IT, then unwrap and toss it back on. With a slightly slower cooking pace do to the unwrapping, i could expect a 12 hour brisket cook???

My logic is sound, the smoker will prove me an a**hole :).. but the fun I will have testing it.

rb
 
Rusty Breaux said:
Interesting thoughts. I came across the thought by accident while doing my last pork butt. I wrapped it around 160 and it climbed to about 195 very quickly. So I unwrapped it to get the last 10 is degrees unwrapped to dry the outside out a little. WELLLLLL apparently i put the probe in the wrong part of the meat because after I unwrapped it, i was much closer to 180* and it ended up rolling for another 3 or so hours. My 5lb butt took 12 hours. I wouldnt say it got caught in another stall, but it definitely cooks slower unwrapped extending the cook time id say.

hhmmmmmm.. SO this is what im thinking: start it off unwrapped running at about 260 until i have a lovely crust and get caught at about 160ish.. . wrap this bad boy for a couple hours which should hopefully get me to 175ish IT, then unwrap and toss it back on. With a slightly slower cooking pace do to the unwrapping, i could expect a 12 hour brisket cook???

My logic is sound, the smoker will prove me an a**hole :).. but the fun I will have testing it.

rb
Click to expand...

I like Rusty's idea. It is worth a try. I think by the time it gets to 160ish, most of the crust will be set but since you are from Texas, the crust won't be as dark as you like, which is okay. Once you've gotten through the wrap, I'd use paper if I were you, make sure you spray with water to enhance bark formation, and lessen the effects of drying out your brisket. This is will help develop your crust, keep your brisket moist and enhance your smoke ring. I think. The possible downside of this is that you may not be able to compensate enough and your brisket will be a little dry. If you live in a humid area, it might work. If you live in LA or Arizona, maybe not. Go for it!!!
 
Donna Fong said:
I like Rusty's idea. It is worth a try. I think by the time it gets to 160ish, most of the crust will be set but since you are from Texas, the crust won't be as dark as you like, which is okay. Once you've gotten through the wrap, I'd use paper if I were you, make sure you spray with water to enhance bark formation, and lessen the effects of drying out your brisket. This is will help develop your crust, keep your brisket moist and enhance your smoke ring. I think. The possible downside of this is that you may not be able to compensate enough and your brisket will be a little dry. If you live in a humid area, it might work. If you live in LA or Arizona, maybe not. Go for it!!!
Click to expand...

Donna, thanks for the thoughts, if its one thing i have covered, its the humidity. By the time I fire up my next brisket (probably a month or so) we should be sitting at 80% humidity.

When i first posted this thread I really didnt think it was much of a novel idea. Now im kinda excited to make fire.

rb
 
Donna Fong said:
I like Rusty's idea. It is worth a try. I think by the time it gets to 160ish, most of the crust will be set but since you are from Texas, the crust won't be as dark as you like, which is okay. Once you've gotten through the wrap, I'd use paper if I were you, make sure you spray with water to enhance bark formation, and lessen the effects of drying out your brisket. This is will help develop your crust, keep your brisket moist and enhance your smoke ring. I think. The possible downside of this is that you may not be able to compensate enough and your brisket will be a little dry. If you live in a humid area, it might work. If you live in LA or Arizona, maybe not. Go for it!!!
Click to expand...
I think it is definitely worth a try too, Donna. Thanks for weighing in on this. It's good to hear advice from someone with your expertise and knowledge of the subject...makes me want to try it as well. But, I think I'll wait and see what Rusty finds out about it. ;) And, you're right, being from Texas, I know my crust is never as dark as I want it at 160* internal. So, I've never been a fan of wrapping anything, except maybe occasionally in butcher paper...if I was in a stall. But, I know a lot of people use the 3-2-1 method for spare ribs. So, if we don't unwrap the brisket until it is well out of the stall, wouldn't it basically be like the last hour on spare ribs...except for a longer period? Rusty, I think you should do another brisket sooner, rather than later. :)
 
Rusty is on to something regarding humidity. I stumbled on this a while ago, trying to find out if "water in the pan" smoking is better/worse/the same than no water.

http://www.scienceofcooking.com/why_is_humidity_important_in_cooking.htm

Even Aaron Franklin recommends the introduction of humidity into the cooking chamber. The linked story has a small section on barbecue and the scientific discussion is interesting.

I usually cook at around 250 with water in the pan and I don't wrap. So far, my results with pork and beef have been better with water. Poultry seems to be fine with higher heat and a dry pit.
 
J Hasselberger said:
Rusty is on to something regarding humidity. I stumbled on this a while ago, trying to find out if "water in the pan" smoking is better/worse/the same than no water.

http://www.scienceofcooking.com/why_is_humidity_important_in_cooking.htm

Even Aaron Franklin recommends the introduction of humidity into the cooking chamber. The linked story has a small section on barbecue and the scientific discussion is interesting.

I usually cook at around 250 with water in the pan and I don't wrap. So far, my results with pork and beef have been better with water. Poultry seems to be fine with higher heat and a dry pit.
Click to expand...

Good stuff J Hasselberger! Being from Wimberley, you're close to a lot of great barbecue joints...and what some beautiful country down there, when it's not flooding. I've watched a lot of Aaron Franklin's videos, and he always put a water pan in his backyard smoker. Of course, he always makes it look so easy, when we know it's not. ;) I copied him with my stick burner by using a water pan, and the extra humidity did seem to make my temps easier to control. And since I got the WSM, I too have used it with water every time. I don't wrap either...but have tried it a few times with butcher paper. I just never saw any real difference that would warrant it. But, then again, all my experimenting was with a stick burner...so, I can't speak for the WSM.

But, the article seems to say the more humidity, the juicier the meat...did you get that? I also read one of the links at the bottom, The Chemistry of the Barbecue Stall. And, I found it interesting when he said, " In this test, we left the brisket dry, but if we had slathered it with sauce periodically as many barbecue chefs do, we could prolong the stall by keeping the surface wet." Who wants to do that? :confused:

BTW...I'm planning a trip down to College Station in a couple of weeks, and am stopping by Kirby's Barbecue in Mexia. That'll give me all the top-25 rated joints by Texas Monthly, and 32 of the top 50 overall. Anyway, I was reading about Kirby's Texas Monthly rating today, and it reminded me of this conversation. They said, "The smoking process for their briskets is unique - Kirby starts them during the day, removes them from the smoker when he leaves for the evening, then puts them back on the smoker to finish them when he arrives again at 4:00am. The result is stunning: the meat was deeply flavored, and each slice was moist and perfectly cooked." Now, they never talked about how long they smoke them the first time, nor anything about internal temps, so I have no idea about any of that. But, this tells me if they take theirs totally off the smoker overnight, and then put them back on the next morning, there shouldn't be a second stall?

We're gonna get this figured out. We've got 4 Texas boys weighing in on it, along with two competition cookers, Bob Bass and Donna Fong.
 
Mick,
Yes, I'm blessed to be down here -- beautiful country and great barbecue. My sons were here from back east and I had to ferry them to Lockhart just about every day (not that I minded). I've had a WSM for about 10 years and have tried pretty much all the ideas proposed on this forum. As you mention about Kirby's, they have a technique that might seem strange to some, but produces spectacular results. That's part of the fun of this hobby/activity -- you can try different things and use your experience to get a great result.

The concept of "wet bulb temperature" makes sense to me and I believe in the water pan. I will say, however, that USDA Prime is the biggest single factor in cooking a great brisket.

We're only about 20 minutes from The Salt Lick, and while they are not as highly regarded as some joints, they deliver a great meal to what seems like thousands of people on a weekend day. I've had some excellent brisket there (but not always) and I think their sausage is about the best in the area. They smoke their briskets to almost done, wrap them in plastic wrap, refrigerate them and then reheat them on those open pits inside the restaurant. You salivate as soon as you walk in and see that huge mountain of smoky meat.

They have an event pavilion just across Onion Creek from the restaurant and next week they're doing a big food, wine and beer event, with Aaron Franklin as one of the top chefs. We have our tickets and will be there as soon as the gate opens.

Jeff
 
Wow. Thanks for all of the information. My next cook will definitely be a brisket (going to try to get this done this coming weekend if possible) and we shall see if it works out the way I am thinking.

Ill keep you guys posted.

rb
 
Sounds good Jeff. We really love that part of country, and always plan a vacation down there every year. We start off coming through Llano and eating at Cooper's. Stay a few days in Fredericksburg, enjoy some German food and beer, get some barbecue at Cranky Frank's, and see whoever is in Luckenbach performing under the shade trees. Then, we always like to stay a few days in Gruene, stay at the Gruend Mansion overlooking the river, and see whoever is performing at Gruene Hall at that time. And, we used to like to spend a few days in Austin, eating more barbecue and enjoying the country music there. But, it's just gotten too crowded for me. Last year, we said if we ever think we want to go back to Austin, we'd stay in Buda and go in via Uber. LOL!! When I lived in Austin back in the 80's, it was great...about 200K people, with a small town atmosphere. And, before it became as they proudly describe nowadays, "weird". Now, at 2 million people, and not having the roads to support it, it takes an hour to get anywhere...and then when you get there, there is not a park in site. It's always a great trip down to the Hill Country though.

- - - Updated - - -

Rusty Breaux said:
Wow. Thanks for all of the information. My next cook will definitely be a brisket (going to try to get this done this coming weekend if possible) and we shall see if it works out the way I am thinking.

Ill keep you guys posted.

rb
Click to expand...

I'll be anxiously awaiting the outcome Rusty!
 
Last edited:
All my favorite haunts, Mick. Cooper's pork chop stands alone -- an amazing hunk o' meat. There's a Cooper's down in New Braunfels, but you can take a pass. You'll be disappointed after the Llano joint. We love Fredericksburg -- being German and all that. Cranky's is great. The ribs are very good and the brisket, delicious. I took the family out to Luckenbach last weekend. Asleep at the Wheel were at the dance hall. We go out there whenever Dale Watson is playing as well. Nothing more Texas. We saw Walt Wilkins and the Mystiqueros at Gruene Hall about a week ago. The great thing about that place is that there's good music every night of the week. Mozie's bar on the corner across from the hall has great sliders and the onion rings are super. We love it down here -- I feel like we live on vacation. Have a good trip and eat well!

Jeff

Note to Rusty: Keep it simple -- salt, pepper and smoke.



Jeff
 
Note to Rusty: Keep it simple -- salt said:
Jeff, My last brisket I used the Meat Church's Holy Cow and I really liked it. Previously i was using a rub that i constructed from some random internet reading. Turns out that rub was MUCH better for pork than beef (eventhough it turned out really good on the brisket as well).

The next brisket trip I am not completely sure what kinda rub im going with. But im really debating going with the Salt/Pepper/garlic powder.

rb
Click to expand...
 
Rusty, I've eaten Meat Church brisket and beef ribs...and those guys know what they're doing, for sure. And, I know they sell that Holy Cow rub on their website for $9.00 for a little 10 1/2 oz container. But, if you look further on their site, they actually tell you what's in it, and the rub they make up when they actually smoke a brisket:

1 Cup - Coarse Ground Black Pepper
1 Cup - Kosher Salt
1/4 Cup - Granulated Garlic
1/4 Cup - Onion Powder
1/4 Cup - Paprika

Pretty simple. ;) Sometimes, I'll add the garlic and onion powder to mine...I've never added the paprika, as I really just don't like that orange color. And, that is what gives it the pretty color in the container they sell. If it was just black and white, who'd buy it? LOL! But, mostly I'll just use a Wayne Mueller, from Louie Mueller's Barbecue, concoction of 2-3 parts pepper to 1 part salt. Wayne will tell you it's 9 parts pepper, but I think he's just joking about that...even though he's been quoted many times about it. It is peppery, but not THAT peppery. And, Aaron Franklin, as well as a lot of other Texas pitmasters say 1 part pepper to 1 part salt. But, I do like the taste the garlic and onion powder adds. You sure can't go wrong with the Holy Cow...but, why pay for it?

Looking forward to hearing about your next brisket!

Jeff, I love your statement, "I feel like we live on vacation." I can certainly understand that...definitely God's country down there.
 
Heading to Costco later, there will be smoke tomorrow. brisket, probably sausage, and im thinking either baked MacNcheese and/or ColeSlaw.

Ill let u guys know how the Uncrutching goes.

rb
 
MickHLR said:
Rusty, I've eaten Meat Church brisket and beef ribs...and those guys know what they're doing, for sure. And, I know they sell that Holy Cow rub on their website for $9.00 for a little 10 1/2 oz container. But, if you look further on their site, they actually tell you what's in it, and the rub they make up when they actually smoke a brisket:

1 Cup - Coarse Ground Black Pepper
1 Cup - Kosher Salt
1/4 Cup - Granulated Garlic
1/4 Cup - Onion Powder
1/4 Cup - Paprika

Pretty simple. ;) Sometimes, I'll add the garlic and onion powder to mine...I've never added the paprika, as I really just don't like that orange color. And, that is what gives it the pretty color in the container they sell. If it was just black and white, who'd buy it? LOL! But, mostly I'll just use a Wayne Mueller, from Louie Mueller's Barbecue, concoction of 2-3 parts pepper to 1 part salt. Wayne will tell you it's 9 parts pepper, but I think he's just joking about that...even though he's been quoted many times about it. It is peppery, but not THAT peppery. And, Aaron Franklin, as well as a lot of other Texas pitmasters say 1 part pepper to 1 part salt. But, I do like the taste the garlic and onion powder adds. You sure can't go wrong with the Holy Cow...but, why pay for it?

Looking forward to hearing about your next brisket!

Jeff, I love your statement, "I feel like we live on vacation." I can certainly understand that...definitely God's country down there.
Click to expand...

Ive just bought 2 Holy Cow! I love that stuff on my brisket and beef ribs!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top