Cooking in bulk


 
Oh and I want to post all advice good or bad is welcome. I do not feel like anyone is being hard on me. You need to be honest in all walks of life whatever you try to do or you won’t succeed.
 
I was told that I don’t need a license and won’t have any issues with authorities. So that is on the organizers of the event if that happens to not be the case. It shouldn’t reflect on me. I was asked to come to this festival.
 
I stressed out just cooking for friends and family for an 80 and 120 person bbq for free, just cause I didn't want anyone to get sick.
I did everything properly pre-cook for food safety, but post cook was one I worried about.
Kudos to you Man, if you can pull this off, but I don't envy you.;)

Tim
 
PaulBz said:
I was told that I don’t need a license and won’t have any issues with authorities. So that is on the organizers of the event if that happens to not be the case. It shouldn’t reflect on me. I was asked to come to this festival.
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Oh, c'mon. Because an organizer says it's ok, you believe them?

Get in touch with your local licensing gov't office and find out from the horse's mouth. Who do you think will get slapped with a fine? Pretty sure it won't be the organizer.

You know, I really believe that no matter what anyone says (ie NOT to do this), you won't listen.

Good luck to ya. I'm done.
 
PaulBz said:
I was told that I don’t need a license and won’t have any issues with authorities. So that is on the organizers of the event if that happens to not be the case. It shouldn’t reflect on me. I was asked to come to this festival.
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If you're selling alcohol or food without a license or proper permits and you get caught be assured it's going to fall on you regardless of what the organizers said, it's your responsibility to know the rules and laws that apply to what you're doing.
 
Said I can sell alcohol with out a license...BS...I wouldn't believe one word from the person who you are communicating with.You really need to do some serious research on this matter.
 
What I'm confused about is you're asking us for our advice and the overwhelming consensus is that you're in over your head (which I completely agree with); yet you still sound as if you're proceeding on with this venture and ignoring the advice of those who understand what you're about to do better than you do. Case in point, lets look at me. I actually have experience vending at a recurring weekly festival over 1,000+ people using WSM's (all three sizes). While the Weber's are portable and can make pretty good food if you know what you're doing, I would never use them for vending ever again. To me, they're meant for the backyard cook who is making food for themselves, family or a small party. They work great for competition BBQ too. There are so many things to think about and you will quickly get very overwhelmed if you have never done this before unless you have significant help. Bringing/setting up all your equipment, firing up the smoker, prepping the meat, assembling your smoker, keeping an eye on the cooking, cooking process itself (spritzing meat/wrapping/checking for proper doneness/saucing), hot holding (which probably means re-wrapping) and into a cambro, potentially slicing, serving customers, handling cash, keeping cash safe, firing up another chimney because you're out of fuel, adding more smoke wood, being sanitary with your hands and different cooking equipment, making sure you can set your lid (and possibly even mid-section down on the ground or a grill mat), clean up (you will make a big mess), etc. Also, vending ribs is not a very cost effective (or easy idea). The margins are lower and you can only cook so many racks. Plus, they don't hold that well after an hour or two max. Think about it, you can probably only fit three rolled (and skewered) racks of the Costco St. Louis spares on each grate of your 18.5"...which comes out to 6 racks of ribs for each 4 hour smoke session. If you do that once (four hours before the event) and then again at the start of it you will have 12 total racks to sell. Selling each rack at $30 per equates to $360 in revenue. Unless you can find another 18.5" to double your capacity that isn't worth all the hassle you'll deal with. You might be able to get a few half racks on your 14.5" but that doesn't do much. I was using a 22.5" for the St. Louis ribs we were doing...laying them out flat on each grate. Also highly doubt you will get that much per rack...even if your ribs are spectacular. The ONLY meat I would vend and sell in the future at public festivals is pulled pork. Everything else is too much trouble, not profitable enough and I found people don't have an appreciation for what goes in to making those other big cuts of meat (brisket and ribs) that people know about.

While I admire your ambition to one day start your own barbecue-based business, my advice is to completely ditch this idea of the festival. Instead, try hosting small parties at your place where you cook for 15, 20, or 30 people and learn from those experiences. I wish I had done that first. Then if you master the process and cooking for those, and still are interested in doing this, then try your hand at some small catering gigs or your first festival. Be warned they are LONG days and exhausting to the bone. I personally don't like the festivals because they're usually a one-time gig and you can't predict how much food to make or have on hand...and even if they're recurring the same people don't always show up from week to week. Oh, and I won't even get into the legal/liability of doing this like almost everyone else is mentioning...
 
Thank you all for your advice. I have not yet decided whether to take this on yet. I am listening to each and every one of you. I think I have to stick to pulled pork. It’s cheaper and I have more profit margin on that. As said above one one is going to appreciate the brisket enough. And brisket costs a lot more and isn’t as easy to make. As far as the legal an law enforcement issue. This festival has been going on for many years with no issue with that. I talked to multiple people involved in it and the issue with permits or selling alcohol has not been a problem. I am definitely going to do more research on it though. For now let’s assume that me selling food and alcohol is not an issue as the organizers are telling me. I certainly hope this festival of many years isn’t going to get me in trouble with that. But I am going to so my due dilligence on that. They said three food vendors. But I was told the other one’s aren’t going to be all that big. I’m going to ask people who have been to this and get some advice. If I decide to this this and I can find another 22 inch wsm maybe to rent I can make a ton of pulled pork and go that route. BUt I’ll think about this some. Your guys comments has got me thinking this may not be a good idea. But no one every accomplished anything big without going big. And the organizers told me that they would help promote my business throughout the year through facebook if I promote their festival. So it’s a lot to think about and I appreciate everyone commenting. Keep the criticism coming because I need to know what I am getting into. However any positive comments? Anyone think this can be done?
 
You are just one vendor at the event right? You don't necessarily have to feed eveyone. Do what you think you can pull off and still make money or break even. It's about getting the experience right? Something like this may be the push you need to get started on what you want to do or at least get your feet wet. That just my two cents.
 
That’s what I’m saying. I have beeen assured by multiple people there is no issue with a license for food and alcohol. I wil under no circumstances sell to anyone underage and will card anyone under 40. As far as someone over 21 buying alcohol and bringing it over to someone under age. I can’t believe I am liable for someone walking hundreds of yards away and serving minors. I was told on the phone to make my own hours and make whatever and how much that I want. I am not tasked with feeding a thousand people. There will be other food if I run out. I can go to costco and get pork butts for super cheap. I will make 100% sure there is no issue with license or anything before I do this. So don’t have any worries about that. Make however much I can make and sell until I sell out. I got a square. I’m at a Grateful Dead festival. I doubt I’m getting robbed of my money. I’ll always have the money with someone and never leave it unattendeed. And by the way I have already done parties with 15-30 people on many occasions. I have done last Xmas with the family and the last two thanksgivings. AFC NFC party where I served a lot of food and sides two years in a row. And many other get togethers. And I have hundreds of cooks under my belt with my wsm’s. And if you count all the meals on my kettle then I guess I would estimate into the thousands in my life. Or very close to that. I am getting advice from the local guy that runs the food stand in a bar and started with nothing and is now very successful. You have to start somewhere. I have now until the end of August to plan and figure this out. I have someone who can get me into restaurant depot. I can buy napkins and what not for very cheap. I am already a costco member. I am not seeing too much of a downside here. Now if I completely fail then word will spread like wildfire of course. But given that pork butt is so cheap I’ll make a lot of them before I go to this festival. Smoke a bunch overnight and be ready for service for lunch. I can hold them until lunch. And I can start some later and then hold them so they’re ready for dinner. I am sure I can get some sternos. I do have to figure out how to hold the meat for service and I’ll always use gloves and be super careful to be sanitary. I’ll make sure to get wipes and constantly wash my hands. I am super ocd about that already. I have electric at my site. So I can get a mini fridge to store things if I need to. These are all logistics I think I can plan out and I can do. And I don’t see a reason not to try this. If I fail then maybe this isn’t the right thing for me to get into. But you have to start somewhere. And passing on an opportunity like this seems like I failed and not even trying. I am spending 165 and then everything is profit after that. I am pretty sure with the two days and selling alcohol I can at least break even and get my name out there. Plus once I’m done serving I get to go listen to some awesome music. I don’t have to be open every minute of that festival serving food. I’ll serve until I’m out for dinner friday, then lunch dinner and late night Saturday. I think I can do it with two people. But we’ll see how it goes. But again I am listening to all of you and taking your advice to heart.
 
Oh sorry I didn’t mention. This festival is not in the city of St. Louis. I’ll be out in eureka at a park with campgrounds there. It’s a dead show that has been operating for years with many vendors without permits. I’m trusting these people that i’m ok. But trust me in that I’ll be doing all my homework to make sure I won’t have an issue. I think we’re focusing too much on this. I don’t have a concern that this will be an issue since it’s been going on for years. But I will do my homework.
 
I think on a 22 I can fit at least 3 pork butts if not four on a rack. And I can cook in waves by putting other butts on the rack. And as I have mentioned in previous posts in the hot weather I can get weber charcoal to go at 225 for 24 hours. I did a test one weekend and it was at 225 for even longer. Now am I not getting the full charcoal flavor by letting the coals go that long is my question that hasn’t been answered yet. I do need to figure that out. I have two atc’s already so I think I’m good on that assuming my older one still works which I think it does. But if not I’ll just have the one that may not work going during the day for the higher shift and I can monitor the temp. And I can just have someone collect money and sit and enjoy the music and drink and eat for free while I check the meat.
 
Paul…yes, knowing what I know now, I would absolutely only sell pulled pork sandwiches at my first festival (or really any festival for that matter). And Dustin is correct in that not everyone who is there will buy from you…usually not even close. Having limited vendors helps but it’s a total crap shoot. I’ve both done well and had to throw away some really good food because of the inconsistencies of them. I’ll stick to light catering to build my brand going forward if I decide I really want to pursue this. Three things you need to think more about if you’re still trying to make a decision:

1) What will the entire process look like from start to finish? Pork butts even cooked hot and fast (what I’d recommend) will take you about 5-6 hours and maybe a lot more depending upon how many you try to cram into each WSM. What time does this festival go from? If it starts early (like 11am) are you going to get there at 3am to set up and smoke your first batch so you can have it all ready to go by 11? If not until later in the day (let’s say 5ish) you will still be there early in the morning. You will need some type of approved Cambro to hold the meat (seriously doubt the local health department will let you hot hold in coolers with towels) and you will have to keep pulling the finished butts you’re holding as needed…that takes time too (like 15 minutes to do it right). I used Avantco food warmers to keep the pulled meat in and serve out of. I also spritzed the meat with apple juice every 20-30 minutes and kept tossing the meat over to keep it moist. Thinking about capacity, you could probably get a max of 6 butts on your 18” (3 on each grate), but that would considerably pushing things and a hot and fast cook might not work with all that mass of meat in such a small cooking device with limited airflow. I’ve never done nearly that many on my 18” and would be very hesitant to try for the first time at my first festival. You could easily get 2 butts on your 14” (1 on each grate). If you decide to pull 3 butts to start that will take up a ton of time as mentioned unless you have a lot of other people you trust helping out.

2) Have you thought about this economically yet? Are you doing this because you simply want to get your name out there? To also make money? If somehow you were able to make and sell out of the aforementioned 8 total butts that had a pre-cook weight of 8 pounds each, figure on roughly a 50% yield for each one post cook. 8 butts x 4 lbs of useable meat from each is 32 lbs to sell. We sold 1/3 lb sandwiches for $7 apiece. If you did the same, 32 lbs should yield about 96 1/3 lb sandwiches. 96 sandwiches x $7 apiece = $672 in revenue which is much better than the ribs. But selling near 100 sandwiches might be very ambitious and you may not be able to sell them for more than $5 or $6 depending upon your market. You need to look at all your costs such as the meat, rub, charcoal, smoke wood, apple juice, heavy duty foil, chips (to sell as an easy/cheap side along with the sandwich), plates, napkins, plastic forks, barbecue sauce, food service permit/certification, event fee, etc. to get an idea of what you could really make form this.

3) You need to make sure you understand exactly what the local health department requires in order to legally operate and there is NO way I would put my financial status at risk without proper liability insurance.

Again, you are obviously very inexperienced and I would definitely pass until you’ve better planned for something like this on ALL aspects. The kinds of questions you’re asking make me very nervous right now. Maybe take a year to practice/learn and develop a process, and then try something like this?

Good luck and I hope all this info helped as I’ve lived what you’re thinking about doing.
 
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OK, first point. There's absolutely no way that you should be doing this. Way too big and you are way too inexperienced at it.
Second point. Even though the organizer has said otherwise, there probably are some legal/permitting issues here.
Third point. As someone else stated, even if there aren't any legal/permitting issues, there's still some "safe handling" guidelines that have to be followed.


With all that said, there's absolutely no way I'd try to smoke and pull butts on site. Again as Michael pointed out, there's too much else going on. Start smoking and pulling the butts a week before the event. Immediately bag the pulled pork, crash cool it then put in a freezer. Move from the freezer to the fridge a day or so before the event so the pork can defrost. The night before the event, put the bags of pork in a cooler and ice it down. At the event, fire up every smoker that you can. Get the temp up to about 300 if possible. Dump the pork from the bags into disposable aluminum half pans. Spend the extra money and get the lids for them as well. Fill the pans to level, spritz liberally with a "finishing sauce" or some apple juice. Stack as many pans as you can into your smokers and give them at least an hour or so to reheat. If you have access to electricity, "roaster pans/ovens" would be ideal. Once heated, you could take the pans of pork out and dump them into the roasters to hold/serve.

If you don't have roasters, get some of the disposable chafing pan wire racks and some full sized disposable aluminum pans to go in them. Add water into the full pans, put one lit sterno can under each one (be sure to get the 6 hour sternos, not the 2 hour ones.) When the half pans have reheated sufficiently, pull them from the smoker and put 2 in each of the chafing pan setups. Then, reload the smokers with more half pans of pork. Get refillable squeeze bottles and a gallon or two of BBQ sauce. You can decide if you want to add the sauce yourself (when making their sandwhich, ask if they want naked or sauced) or just set them out and let people do it themselves. Better cost control if you do it, but takes less time if you let the customer do it.

You'll definitely want to buy a box of nitrile gloves, maybe even a twin pack from Sams. You might also want to figure out some method of portion control, other than just using pair of tongs. Get a scale from Walmart and practice at home. Make a pan of pulled pork, figure out how many ounces you want to put on a sandwich, put that much on a scale, then find some container that holds exactly that amount when full. Process would then be, get bun, open and put on plate, use tongs to fill container with the pulled pork, then turn container over onto the bottom bun.

OK, point number 4(or 6, or 7 or whatever). Would be really great if you had at least one or two other people to help you with this as even streamlined to some degree like this, you'll probably need it. There's just so much to do.

Last point, again, nothing personal, but you probably shouldn't be doing this. At least not thinking that you're going to be serving hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Now, if you just want to smoke 4 or 5 butts and sell 50 - 70 sandwiches, that's a different story. I'd still smoke and pull before I got there though.
 
Also, have to ask, do you know much about "safe food handling" ? Familiar with the "danger zone" or the "40-140" rule ?
 
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