A few preparation questions before my first cook.


 
Arun L. said:
I ended up getting both a 5 gallon food grade bucket, with a gamma lid, and a 48 qt cooler.

I'd been wanting a plastic cooler for a few years now. I only had a Styrofoam one.

Right now, I like the idea of the bucket better.

Question, though. Would it take more brine to cover the turkey in the bucket, because the turkey is upright, then it would in a cooler with the turkey laying down?
Click to expand...

It shouldn't take any more liquid in the bucket because it's a much smaller volume than the cooler. A 5 gallon bucket will hold 5 gallons of liquid, while a 48 quart cooler will hold 12 gallons (4 quarts in a gallon > 48 quarts = 12 gallons). If you use a plastic bag inside of either, you can minimize the amount of brine needed by minimizing the space around the turkey. You might want to watch this video, too. I might answer some of your other questions on the brining aspects.

http://www.weber.com/weber-nation/v...weekapple-brined-turkey-with-big-time-gravy-1
 
Arun L. said:


Here's the brine recipe from Virtual Weber Bullet.

++++++++++++++

http://virtualweberbullet.com/turkey6.html

[TABLE="width: 720"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%, colspan: 2"]Apple Brine For Turkey
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]2 quarts apple juice
1 pound brown sugar (light or dark)
1 cup Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt
3 quarts cold water
3 oranges, quartered[/FONT][/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]4 ounces fresh ginger, unpeeled and thinly sliced
15 whole cloves
6 bay leaves
6 large garlic cloves, peeled and crushed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%, colspan: 2"]Substitute 3/4 cup Morton Kosher Salt or 1/2 cup table salt for Diamond Crystal.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

A few updates.

* This recipe for brining, it had you heat the apple juice, brown sugar, and salt to boiling, then cool it down.

After it boiled, I let it sit at room temperature for a while. Then I put it in the freezer to try and bring the temp down.

2 hours after I removed it from heat, the temp was still in the high 80s.

I ended up going to sleep. After I woke up, it was finally down to a good temperature (49 degrees).

Was it necessary to heat it that much? This added a lot of unexpected time.

I understand some heat may be necessary, to dissolve the brown sugar and salt. But wouldn't just heating it until it was a little warm and dissolved, be sufficient? Then I could cool it to the proper temperature easier, so it would be at the right temperature for brining. Don't want to put hot or warm liquid around the turkey.

* As for the wood chunks, here's what I ended up doing.

I went with one hickory chunk, because those were huge. And 2 apple chunks.

I'll post pics later.

* The vertical roaster seems to be holding up, even though it was only specified for up to 8 lbs.

* I had wanted to put a drip tray underneath the vertical roaster, so I could catch more drippings. But the tray I have, I can't fit on on the middle rack of the WSM. It's just a bit too hard to fit.

Maybe I could have tried putting the drip tray first, then putting the turkey with the vertical roaster on the drip pan afterwards. But I wasn't comfortable with that, as it was a little hard to handle, and I think I would have had to slightly "drop" the turkey with the roaster on the drip pan. Maybe only an inch or two, but I didn't want to risk the turkey falling over on its side if I missed, as I attempted that.

I didn't have this issue of putting the vertical roaster on the drip pan when I was in the kitchen, because the had a lot of open space, and was on a counter, so it was easier to align the roaster with the exact open area of the drip pan. There wasn't much room left over width wise after putting the roaster on the drip pan, so it was a a restricted fit.

The turkey on the roaster with the drip pan did fit on the top rack, but I couldn't close the lid on the turkey then.

Now, I just hope the turkey doesn't taste like ash or something nasty, when it's done.

- - - Updated - - -

It's definitely nice being able to monitor the pit temp, and meat temp, remotely, using the Flame Boss.
 
Also, it was a little more difficult to start the fire in the chimney starter than I realized. The fire kept going out. That was only the top level coals were staying lit.

I distributed more lighter fluid across other layers in the chimney, and then the fire stayed.

Is there any way to avoid the scorch mark the charcoals leave on the patio, when using the chimney starter?
 
The charcoals also don't have that classic smell that I had remember them having. It just smells a little different. Maybe that's why I started thinking of the "ash" comment.

It's not because of the wood either, because the smell seemed a little different when they were in the chimney starter too. Just a variation of the smell that I think about when compared to the classic charcoal smell.
 
It's been 1 hour, the meat temperature is already at 97 degrees and the pit temperature is at 233 degrees.

Is the meat cooking too fast? The hickory hasn't even started burning, even though I placed it near the middle.

Do I have to stop it once the meat gets to 165?

Should I do something to get the wood burning?

Should I open the cooker, get to the bottom portion, and make it start burning?
 
Hi Arun.

I'm glad you posted these updates. It gives everyone a good idea of your process, so we can help.

Please don't take this wrong, but never ever use lighter fluid. Even if you think it's all burned, it can still leave residue. Lighter fluid is almost as bad as using match-light charcoal. In fact, the chimney starter is not meant to be used with lighter fluid. Chimneys were invented so we can avoid using that nasty stuff.

All you need to do is put a couple of crumpled sheets of newspaper under the chimney, light it, and wait for 15 to 20 minutes and you'll have a chimney filled with lit coals. Personally, I use three wadded up paper towels with ~about~ a tablespoon of vegetable oil drizzled on. Works like a charm and very little ash! And don't worry about seeing "fire" after the newspaper burns out. The charcoal briquettes will light each other.

To avoid the scorch mark, just buy a 12" x 12" paving stone for $1.20 at Home Depot or Lowes. Use that as a base for starting the chimney.

Unless the charcoal smell is BAD, or acrid, I wouldn't worry about it smelling different than what you remember. If you have been using match-light charcoal for grilling, the WSM will definitely smell different.

If your temperature is accurate, the meat is not cooking too fast. It may be done before you are ready, but that's BBQ. It's done when it's done. Keep monitoring it, and if necessary, close the vents a little to bring the temp down to 210 or 215.

Do not do anything special to try and get the wood burning. Definitely do not squirt lighter fluid in there!! The most I would do would be to open the door and push it gently on the hot coals. But I probably wouldn't even do that. I tend to just let things play out.

You do not have to stop the cook when the breast meat of the turkey gets to 165, but I sure would. Much hotter than 165, and you'll be drying it out.

Can you post any photos? It's hard to know why things might not be going right without seeing.
 
Mark Barton said:
Hi Arun.

I'm glad you posted these updates. It gives everyone a good idea of your process, so we can help.

Please don't take this wrong, but never ever use lighter fluid. Even if you think it's all burned, it can still leave residue. Lighter fluid is almost as bad as using match-light charcoal. In fact, the chimney starter is not meant to be used with lighter fluid. Chimneys were invented so we can avoid using that nasty stuff.

All you need to do is put a couple of crumpled sheets of newspaper under the chimney, light it, and wait for 15 to 20 minutes and you'll have a chimney filled with lit coals. Personally, I use three wadded up paper towels with ~about~ a tablespoon of vegetable oil drizzled on. Works like a charm and very little ash! And don't worry about seeing "fire" after the newspaper burns out. The charcoal briquettes will light each other.

To avoid the scorch mark, just buy a 12" x 12" paving stone for $1.20 at Home Depot or Lowes. Use that as a base for starting the chimney.

Unless the charcoal smell is BAD, or acrid, I wouldn't worry about it smelling different than what you remember. If you have been using match-light charcoal for grilling, the WSM will definitely smell different.

If your temperature is accurate, the meat is not cooking too fast. It may be done before you are ready, but that's BBQ. It's done when it's done. Keep monitoring it, and if necessary, close the vents a little to bring the temp down to 210 or 215.

Do not do anything special to try and get the wood burning. Definitely do not squirt lighter fluid in there!! The most I would do would be to open the door and push it gently on the hot coals. But I probably wouldn't even do that. I tend to just let things play out.

You do not have to stop the cook when the breast meat of the turkey gets to 165, but I sure would. Much hotter than 165, and you'll be drying it out.

Can you post any photos? It's hard to know why things might not be going right without seeing.
Click to expand...

I did not know this.

Thanks.

Earlier in this thread, I commented on how a video I was watching didn't actually show the guy lighting the charcoals. I felt that I would miss something important, and it looks like this was it. That you're NOT supposed to use lighter fluid with charcoals.

Your vegetable oil + paper towels sounds like a great way to do it.
 
Mark Barton said:
Hi Arun.

I'm glad you posted these updates. It gives everyone a good idea of your process, so we can help.

Please don't take this wrong, but never ever use lighter fluid. Even if you think it's all burned, it can still leave residue. Lighter fluid is almost as bad as using match-light charcoal. In fact, the chimney starter is not meant to be used with lighter fluid. Chimneys were invented so we can avoid using that nasty stuff.

All you need to do is put a couple of crumpled sheets of newspaper under the chimney, light it, and wait for 15 to 20 minutes and you'll have a chimney filled with lit coals. Personally, I use three wadded up paper towels with ~about~ a tablespoon of vegetable oil drizzled on. Works like a charm and very little ash! And don't worry about seeing "fire" after the newspaper burns out. The charcoal briquettes will light each other.

To avoid the scorch mark, just buy a 12" x 12" paving stone for $1.20 at Home Depot or Lowes. Use that as a base for starting the chimney.

Unless the charcoal smell is BAD, or acrid, I wouldn't worry about it smelling different than what you remember. If you have been using match-light charcoal for grilling, the WSM will definitely smell different.

If your temperature is accurate, the meat is not cooking too fast. It may be done before you are ready, but that's BBQ. It's done when it's done. Keep monitoring it, and if necessary, close the vents a little to bring the temp down to 210 or 215.

Do not do anything special to try and get the wood burning. Definitely do not squirt lighter fluid in there!! The most I would do would be to open the door and push it gently on the hot coals. But I probably wouldn't even do that. I tend to just let things play out.

You do not have to stop the cook when the breast meat of the turkey gets to 165, but I sure would. Much hotter than 165, and you'll be drying it out.

Can you post any photos? It's hard to know why things might not be going right without seeing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll post some photos.

It's just that I anticipated this cook taking 6 - 8 hours, so I told people to come at 4pm.

At this rate, it might only be 3 hours, and be done before 2pm.
 
Is that all wood down there ? Normally, I use only a couple baseball sized chunks of wood for flavoring.
 
Arun L. said:
It's just that I anticipated this cook taking 6 - 8 hours, so I told people to come at 4pm.

At this rate, it might only be 3 hours, and be done before 2pm.
Click to expand...

Chalk one up to the learning curve of BBQ. It's a pain, but at least you will have a good baseline of what to expect if you smoke a similar-sized turkey again.

Try to get the temp down to about 200, if you can. Then watch and wait. Hopefully that will slow down the cook at least a half hour or so. Once the bird gets up to about 150, then I would open all the vents WIDE, and maybe eve the door for a few minutes. Get the temp up to 300+ to crisp up that skin.
 
Bob Bass said:
Is that all wood down there ? Normally, I use only a couple baseball sized chunks of wood for flavoring.
Click to expand...

No, it's on top of the rest of the charcoal.

That's just the size the hickory chunk came in. I used that one hickory chunk (near the door), and 2 baseball sized apple chunks (near the back).
 
Is that a split you are using for the wood? For turkey, you should only use a couple of fist size chunks of wood as to much smoke can ruin a turkey. In your original post you mentioned wood chunks and not splits. That big a piece of wood is way to much in my opinion. Good Luck.
 
Arun L. said:
Pics within the past few mins:

http://imgur.com/a/dwjuo/layout/horizontal#0

The state of that hickory wood, which looks mostly unburned, is why I'm concerned about not getting smoke flavor.
Click to expand...

Ooooohhhhh! Thanks for posting that pic. Now I understand what is happening. The WSM is not really designed to use big splits of wood like that. Like Bob said, you only need a few baseball, or fist-sized chunks.

I wouldn't worry about it at this point. I see plenty of smoke in the photo. I would guess that one side of the wood is probably charring, which is giving off some good thin blue smoke. Maybe you could push some more coals against it, but it seems OK to me. It does not have to be burning with flames like it would in a big offset smoker.

The turkey itself is looking great! Keep at it.
 
Mark Barton said:
Chalk one up to the learning curve of BBQ. It's a pain, but at least you will have a good baseline of what to expect if you smoke a similar-sized turkey again.

Try to get the temp down to about 200, if you can. Then watch and wait. Hopefully that will slow down the cook at least a half hour or so. Once the bird gets up to about 150, then I would open all the vents WIDE, and maybe eve the door for a few minutes. Get the temp up to 300+ to crisp up that skin.
Click to expand...

The vents are already closed?

What else can I do to drop the temp? Only other options I can think of would be to open the door, or open the lid, and neither seem like good options.
 
<< EDIT: In the time it took me to write this, these other guys awesomely answered most of your questions...sorry for the repetition! >>

So many questions here...I'll take a stab at a few of them.

Regarding the preparation of the brine, I agree that bringing the apple juice to a boil in order to dissolve the brown sugar and salt is unnecessary. Warming it slightly should be sufficient, then let cool to room temperature before proceeding.

Regarding the chimney starter, you mentioned using lighter fluid. Lighter fluid is not meant for use in a chimney starter. You're supposed to place crumpled pieces of newspaper or paraffin lighter cubes (see photo) under the chimney so that when lit, the heat passes up through the chimney, lighting the charcoal from bottom to top. See How To Use A Chimney Starter for details.

chimney_cutaway_zpsxpfflisd.jpg


Regarding protecting your patio, see Protecting Patios & Wooden Decks.

Regarding the hickory, make sure it's touching or on top of hot charcoal so it burns.

Regarding the 233*F pit temp, this is fine for "low & slow" smoking, if that's your goal. However, the recipe you're following (http://virtualweberbullet.com/turkey6.html) recommends 325-350*F. If you want to cook at this higher temp range, don't put any water in the water pan, make sure the top vent is fully open, and open all bottom vents fully to increase the cooker temp. If the cooker temp does not come up, you don't have enough hot charcoal in the cooker.

Regarding the 165*F internal meat temp, this temp guarantees moist meat. You can cook a little bit beyond this point, e.g. 170*F, but when you get to 180*F the turkey starts to get tough and dry.
 
Mark Barton said:
Ooooohhhhh! Thanks for posting that pic. Now I understand what is happening. The WSM is not really designed to use big splits of wood like that. Like Bob said, you only need a few baseball, or fist-sized chunks.

I wouldn't worry about it at this point. I see plenty of smoke in the photo. I would guess that one side of the wood is probably charring, which is giving off some good thin blue smoke. Maybe you could push some more coals against it, but it seems OK to me. It does not have to be burning with flames like it would in a big offset smoker.

The turkey itself is looking great! Keep at it.
Click to expand...


Lol, I should have posted pics of the bag I was going to buy from Lowes, before I actually bought it. Then someone could have warned me that those chunks were too big.

I bought the 21 lb bag because I thought it would be a good value, and because I anticipated using a greater ratio of hickory than apple.

Then when I went to the pick up counter, I had some reservations after actually seeing the size of the hickory in front of me, with the bag right there. But, they said they didn't have any other sized hickory bags.

After doing a lot of shopping for the food itself during those days, I didn't think it would be that big of a problem, so I stuck with those hickory chunks.

Does blue smoke actually look blue?
 
Chris Allingham said:
<< EDIT: In the time it took me to write this, these other guys awesomely answered most of your questions...sorry for the repetition! >>

So many questions here...I'll take a stab at a few of them.

Regarding the preparation of the brine, I agree that bringing the apple juice to a boil in order to dissolve the brown sugar and salt is unnecessary. Warming it slightly should be sufficient, then let cool to room temperature before proceeding.

Regarding the chimney starter, you mentioned using lighter fluid. Lighter fluid is not meant for use in a chimney starter. You're supposed to place crumpled pieces of newspaper or paraffin lighter cubes (see photo) under the chimney so that when lit, the heat passes up through the chimney, lighting the charcoal from bottom to top. See How To Use A Chimney Starter for details.

chimney_cutaway_zpsxpfflisd.jpg


Regarding protecting your patio, see Protecting Patios & Wooden Decks.

Regarding the hickory, make sure it's touching or on top of hot charcoal so it burns.

Regarding the 233*F pit temp, this is fine for "low & slow" smoking, if that's your goal. However, the recipe you're following (http://virtualweberbullet.com/turkey6.html) recommends 325-350*F. If you want to cook at this higher temp range, don't put any water in the water pan, make sure the top vent is fully open, and open all bottom vents fully to increase the cooker temp. If the cooker temp does not come up, you don't have enough hot charcoal in the cooker.

Regarding the 165*F internal meat temp, this temp guarantees moist meat. You can cook a little bit beyond this point, e.g. 170*F, but when you get to 180*F the turkey starts to get tough and dry.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of the answers.

I was following that recipe for brine, but wanted to do a low and slow smoke, with water in the pan, for the actual cook.
 
What smoker are you using Arun? In the pic it didn't look like a WSM. Also, if you remove the lid or open the door, the temp will increase not decrease.
 
Arun L. said:
Does blue smoke actually look blue?
Click to expand...

It's hard to tell without actually being there, but the smoke in your photo does look OK.

Regarding the vents, don't shut them all the way. You still need some airflow to keep it burning. Even if the temp is a little higher than what you would like to see, you don't want to choke the fire. That will extinguish it, and will give you some not so great smoke.

The good news about your big chunks is that you can cut them into smaller pieces. At least you won't have wasted the money.
 
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