Thermometer / Temp difference question


 
B

BLepping

New member
Hey guys....

Super green newbie to the whole smoking world, but I'm learning as I go. Smoked my first pork shoulder (actually, first smoke of any kind) this past Saturday and def had some hiccups.

First and foremost, it was a 9 lb bone-in shoulder and it took waaaay too long. Like 20 hours. I had to leave the house at one point for 2 hours and the temp dropped a bit by the time I had come back home...but whatever. I've done a ton of reading over the past few days and I think I've seen the errors of my ways.

My question is related to the thermometer and the heat differential on the smoker. I have the 18.5 inch version and it read somewhere between 225 and 250 most of the day when I smoked. However, I'm guessing that, like so many other people have suggested, the built-in temp gage is way off. I used this thermostat for meat temps http://www.lowes.com/pd_507286-14488-SBQ-5758-CU_1z0wejo__?productId=50134370&pl=1 and it seemed accurate and reliable. But can I use this for ambient temp readings around the grates?

If I can't rely on the smoker's temp gage, how can I best read what the temp truly is? Do I need a completely different thermometer to stick in the actual smoker (aside from this one that I'm using on the meat itself)?

Any help is greatly appreciated. And sorry if this seems super obvious, I just wanna make sure I understand everything 100%.

- Brent
 
First, welcome to the forum. It is a great place to learn and to help others.
Take a look at this link for a good way to go. A lot of guys here use this and it works well. Never be afraid to ask a question if you don't know the answer. That is how we all learn and then help others. The Maverick gives you both pit temp and meat temp. Good luck.
 
I have both the Maverick and the igrill2, and can recommend them both. I'm not familiar with the Master Forge so I really wouldn't be able to comment on it either way.
 
BLepping said:
Hey guys....

Super green newbie to the whole smoking world, but I'm learning as I go. Smoked my first pork shoulder (actually, first smoke of any kind) this past Saturday and def had some hiccups.

First and foremost, it was a 9 lb bone-in shoulder and it took waaaay too long. Like 20 hours. I had to leave the house at one point for 2 hours and the temp dropped a bit by the time I had come back home...but whatever. I've done a ton of reading over the past few days and I think I've seen the errors of my ways.

My question is related to the thermometer and the heat differential on the smoker. I have the 18.5 inch version and it read somewhere between 225 and 250 most of the day when I smoked. However, I'm guessing that, like so many other people have suggested, the built-in temp gage is way off. I used this thermostat for meat temps http://www.lowes.com/pd_507286-14488-SBQ-5758-CU_1z0wejo__?productId=50134370&pl=1 and it seemed accurate and reliable. But can I use this for ambient temp readings around the grates?

If I can't rely on the smoker's temp gage, how can I best read what the temp truly is? Do I need a completely different thermometer to stick in the actual smoker (aside from this one that I'm using on the meat itself)?

Any help is greatly appreciated. And sorry if this seems super obvious, I just wanna make sure I understand everything 100%.

- Brent
Click to expand...

I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it for the grate temperature. sometimes I accidently swap my maverick probes (i have one for the grates and another for the meat) and I see exactly the same temps when I switch it back.
 
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If you check your thermometer in boiling water adjusting for Alt and Baro Pressure you might be surprised to find it's not that far off. I think you experienced a difference in dome vs grate temp.

There are a few temp probe thermometers out there that work great and are fun to use. ...but they're not really required.

A reg old oven thermometer set on the grate will give you your differential and then use the dome -adding or subtracting the delta- to get your grate temp.

Ck these out:

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/thermotest.html

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/measuretemp.html
 
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the interesting part is that generally the dome temp is LOWER than the grate temp. so it's a little strange that you had a longer than expected cook rather than shorter.
 
Matt H. said:
the interesting part is that generally the dome temp is LOWER than the grate temp. so it's a little strange that you had a longer than expected cook rather than shorter.
Click to expand...

I find it cool that you've had that experience. I've not done it but back in '99 Chris did an experiment. Here's what he said:

"In 1999, I conducted two "experiments" by measuring temperatures in an empty cooker and during a cook of two pork butts. I concluded that the lid temperature averages 12-15°F higher than the top grate temperature, and the top grate averages 4-10°F higher than the bottom grate."

Though he goes on to say "The difference in temperature between the lid and top grate is quite variable regardless of water pan variation used. During the middle two hours of each session, the difference ranged from 0-15°F, then during the last hour the difference lessened and in two cases actually went negative. For the empty water pan cook, a 24°F difference was observed during the last three hours, from a high of 14.6°F to a low of -9.7°F."

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/temptest.html

I guess YMMV truly does apply.
 
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BLepping said:
If I can't rely on the smoker's temp gage, how can I best read what the temp truly is? Do I need a completely different thermometer to stick in the actual smoker (aside from this one that I'm using on the meat itself)
Click to expand...
You really do need a dual thermometer. I have the Maverick ET-732 which comes with a grate probe and a meat probe, and it works well. I don't need to use it all the time, and in fact I've only used the grate probe once to establish the difference between my dial thermometer in the lid of the WSM and my Maverick. Once you know the difference, you just adjust what the dial is telling you to what you know from your Maverick

Here's the difference between my dial and my Maverick (top grate) - just for kicks, I checked it again, roughly two years after first determining the difference, and there's been no change. Welcome to the forum

95133B86-28AD-4AA3-89E6-19E23771B318_zpsu8vn6ujt.jpg
 
ChuckO said:
You really do need a dual thermometer. I have the Maverick ET-732 which comes with a grate probe and a meat probe, and it works well. I don't need to use it all the time, and in fact I've only used the grate probe once to establish the difference between my dial thermometer in the lid of the WSM and my Maverick. Once you know the difference, you just adjust what the dial is telling you to what you know from your Maverick

Here's the difference between my dial and my Maverick (top grate) - just for kicks, I checked it again, roughly two years after first determining the difference, and there's been no change. Welcome to the forum

95133B86-28AD-4AA3-89E6-19E23771B318_zpsu8vn6ujt.jpg
Click to expand...

maybe i'm not crazy!
 
Dwain Pannell said:
I find it cool that you've had that experience. I've not done it but back in '99 Chris did an experiment. Here's what he said:

"In 1999, I conducted two "experiments" by measuring temperatures in an empty cooker and during a cook of two pork butts. I concluded that the lid temperature averages 12-15°F higher than the top grate temperature, and the top grate averages 4-10°F higher than the bottom grate."

Though he goes on to say "The difference in temperature between the lid and top grate is quite variable regardless of water pan variation used. During the middle two hours of each session, the difference ranged from 0-15°F, then during the last hour the difference lessened and in two cases actually went negative. For the empty water pan cook, a 24°F difference was observed during the last three hours, from a high of 14.6°F to a low of -9.7°F."

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/temptest.html

I guess YMMV truly does apply.
Click to expand...

It really does. My 18.5 can read up to 30F high OR low. Like, I was hitting 270F on the end of a burnt ends cook (readout via my HeaterMeter w/ Thermoworks air probe) and the dome showed roughly 240ish. Other times it's read 225 on the dome and the grate registered 200.
 
BLepping said:
If I can't rely on the smoker's temp gage, how can I best read what the temp truly is?
Click to expand...
If you feel more comfortable measuring temp at the cooking surface with a Maverick dual-probe or similar thermometer, that's great. But you can also just learn to use the lid thermometer. That's what I do, and I use a Thermapen to measure internal meat temp occasionally as I cook.

Here's what I often tell people. When you bake in your kitchen oven, do you really know how hot your oven is? Probably not. Do you measure oven temperature at the rack where the food cooks? Probably not. Do you know how far off your oven is from actual temp? +/- 25*F? +/- 50*F? Most ovens measure temp at the top center or top corner of the oven and the element cycles on/off, the temp goes up/down...we just trust that the temp we set is actually happening...and we learn the quirks of our oven and use it to successfully bake cakes and casseroles and roast chickens and turkeys and you name it.

So why do we get hung up on having to know the exact temp of our cooker, at the cooking surface where the meat is?

If you cook enough pork butts and ribs and chicken using just the lid thermometer, and take notes of how stuff turns out, you'll learn to make great barbecue without lots of fancy dual-probe gadgets.

There. That's my contrarian statement on measuring temp in the WSM. :)

BLepping said:
I just wanna make sure I understand everything 100%.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as understanding everything 100% when it comes to temperature in the WSM or about barbecue in general. I've been at it for 18 years and I've still just scratched the surface. :wsm:
 
Chris Allingham said:
There is no such thing as understanding everything 100% when it comes to temperature in the WSM or about barbecue in general. I've been at it for 18 years and I've still just scratched the surface. :wsm:
Click to expand...

Right on, Chris. “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.” -Aristotle
 
Chris Allingham said:
If you feel more comfortable measuring temp at the cooking surface with a Maverick dual-probe or similar thermometer, that's great. But you can also just learn to use the lid thermometer. That's what I do, and I use a Thermapen to measure internal meat temp occasionally as I cook.

Here's what I often tell people. When you bake in your kitchen oven, do you really know how hot your oven is? Probably not. Do you measure oven temperature at the rack where the food cooks? Probably not. Do you know how far off your oven is from actual temp? +/- 25*F? +/- 50*F? Most ovens measure temp at the top center or top corner of the oven and the element cycles on/off, the temp goes up/down...we just trust that the temp we set is actually happening...and we learn the quirks of our oven and use it to successfully bake cakes and casseroles and roast chickens and turkeys and you name it.

So why do we get hung up on having to know the exact temp of our cooker, at the cooking surface where the meat is?

If you cook enough pork butts and ribs and chicken using just the lid thermometer, and take notes of how stuff turns out, you'll learn to make great barbecue without lots of fancy dual-probe gadgets.

There. That's my contrarian statement on measuring temp in the WSM. :)


There is no such thing as understanding everything 100% when it comes to temperature in the WSM or about barbecue in general. I've been at it for 18 years and I've still just scratched the surface. :wsm:
Click to expand...

I like being able to not go outside to know what the temp is! Otherwise I would probably use the lid temp too.
 
Chris Allingham said:
Here's what I often tell people. When you bake in your kitchen oven, do you really know how hot your oven is? Probably not. Do you measure oven temperature at the rack where the food cooks? Probably not. Do you know how far off your oven is from actual temp? +/- 25*F? +/- 50*F? Most ovens measure temp at the top center or top corner of the oven and the element cycles on/off, the temp goes up/down...we just trust that the temp we set is actually happening...and we learn the quirks of our oven and use it to successfully bake cakes and casseroles and roast chickens and turkeys and you name it.
Click to expand...


best piece of advice I've read in a long time.
 
Chris nailed the fact that you really don't need to know the precise temp when cooking. As long as you have a consistent temp you will turn out good results. With that being said I have a maverick 733 and watch it like a hawk... so do as chris says and not as I do...

The biggest pro to the maverick is that it is wireless and you know what your temps are while inside and don't have to get up and look all the time.
 
I just recently started checking the temperature. I've seen as much as 40 degrees and other times it's just a few degrees different. I remember in the past thinking my heat was way too low and now I realize it was probably fine all along.
 
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