Test Run - Crash and Burn

[Brent Berwick]

So I did a test run today (thank God), and it did not go well. I'm running an 18.5 WSM, lump charcoal, apple wood, and an 11.5 pound bird. Because it was a test run I only seasoned the bird and did not brine nor inject it. I let it come to room temp for an hour before I put it on the smoker.

I set my Digi-Q at 335 and stayed pretty close for the most part. The temp spiked a few times to 360 but I bounced it between 320 and 360 for 2.5 hours until the breast reached 161. I started checking temps at about the 2 hour mark with my Thermapen and they were in line with my Digi-Q probe. Pulled it at 161 and let it rest for 25 minutes. The breast looked cooked but was a little pink close to the breast bone. The skin connecting the legs and thighs couldn't be pulled from the bird, my first red flag, and once I cut into them it was clear they were still way under.

What happened here? My assumption is that the temp spikes caused the breasts to cook much faster than the rest of the bird. I followed the recommendations (maybe I read that wrong) from the virtual weber bullet site that said the author didn't worry about the thigh and just went with the breast - big mistake. Anyway, obviously the big day is on Thurs and I'm feeling less that confident about it.

Are my assumptions correct?

 

[Chris Allingham]

Please let me know where I wrote that I didn't worry about the thigh, I'd like to correct that if I wrote that. All the recipes (I think) say to cook the turkey until it measures 160-165°F in the breast, 170-175°F in the thigh, using an instant-read thermometer.

If you hit the breast at 161 and the thigh was not at least 170, it should have stayed in the cooker longer. If the breast is cooking faster than the thigh, you can employ typical oven roasted turkey tricks like tenting the breast area with foil. If you're concerned about pink at the breast bone, make sure to go to 165. At that temp the breast is surely food safe no matter if there's some pink...pink happens.

If you brine or salt, you'll be able to take the whole bird to higher internal temps without it drying out.

And every turkey is different, so you might do the exact same thing again and get a different result. It's part of the challenge with the anatomy of turkey. Butterflying can help promote even cooking but not everyone is into that presentation.

 

[Brent Berwick]

The passage I was referring to is under "Where to Measure Internal Meat Temperature." After re-reading it I'm sure I misinterpreted it:

http://virtualweberbullet.com/turkeyselect.html#timetemp

"Internal temperature should be measured in the deepest part of the breast and thigh. Measuring in the thigh can be tricky, so I just measure in the breast from the front of the turkey, parallel to the breast bone, using an accurate instant-read thermometer."

I read that as you saying its so tricky to get an accurate measurement in the thigh that you only rely on the breast, that's my first mistake. I think the temp spikes also exacerbated the problem. On TG day I'm setting my Digi a little lower to 325 and am going to watch it extra close to try and avoid temp spikes.

Any reason why I shouldn't just put my Digi probe in the thigh to start rather than the breast? I guess that's because the thigh is hard to temp?

 

[JimK]

Hey Brent. A trick I learned several years ago is to ice down the breast for 20-30 minutes before cooking. Just fill a Ziplock with ice and place it on top. This will cool down the breasts and get you much closer to having the dark and white meat done at the same time. I usually shoot for the high 150's and after a 15-20 minute rest, I'm in the low 160's.

As Chris mentioned brining helps you to get to a little higher temp without drying out.

 

[JBooker]

Smoked turkey is pink, and you can still get pink juice from the thigh joints. You have to get the temp up to 180 in order for that to not be pink.

Why are the turkey juices still bloody although the timer popped?
The color of the juices at the leg joints is sometimes pink even though it is cooked and safe to eat. Those joints may only have been heated to 175° F. A temperature of 165° F is required to be safe to eat, but the red color will not disappear until about 180° F. Our turkey timers in whole turkeys pop up when the breast is 170° F.

Is it safe to eat turkey meat that's pink?
The color of cooked meat and poultry isn’t always a good indicator of doneness. Using a meat thermometer is the only accurate way to determine that meat has reached a safe temperature. Turkey, fresh pork, ground beef or veal can remain pink even after cooking to temperatures of 160° F and higher. Smoked turkey meat is always pink.

 

[JayHeyl]

I think the temp spikes also exacerbated the problem. On TG day I'm setting my Digi a little lower to 325 and am going to watch it extra close to try and avoid temp spikes.

I doubt the temp spikes were the problem. From what you said you had temps that were about as stable as you'd see in a typical oven. I just tested my oven and found it varies by +/-20F from the set temp when it's stable. Until the thermocouple acclimated and the body of the stove hit a steady heat state I saw wild swings of as much as 100F above the set temp. All told, a closely watched and controlled WSM will maintain steadier temp than a typical gas oven.

 

[Chris Allingham]

I read that as you saying its so tricky to get an accurate measurement in the thigh that you only rely on the breast, that's my first mistake.

I will try to clarify that in the article.

Any reason why I shouldn't just put my Digi probe in the thigh to start rather than the breast?

Go for it if you feel you've got the probe placed in the right location. The challenge always seems to me knowing exactly where to place it to get a good reading. For me, I like to use the breast because it's a big, easy target to temp, and when it gets into that 160-165°F range, then I will take an instant-read thermometer and poke the thigh in several locations to check it.

 

[Dustin Dorsey]

The pinkness doesn't necessarily mean its not safe. As I understand it, it has something to do with most turkeys these days being young. That said I do wind up with the breast done faster than the thighs if I don't ice or at least shield the breast for part of the cook.

 

[ChadVKealey]

I let it come to room temp for an hour before I put it on the smoker.

While this is standard practice for some meats (beef, in particular), applying it to poultry and pork can be dangerous. Both of these are more prone to harmful bacteria and should be kept at about 40 degrees or less until they go into the cooker.

 

[Brent Berwick]

Hey Brent. A trick I learned several years ago is to ice down the breast for 20-30 minutes before cooking. Just fill a Ziplock with ice and place it on top. This will cool down the breasts and get you much closer to having the dark and white meat done at the same time. I usually shoot for the high 150's and after a 15-20 minute rest, I'm in the low 160's.

As Chris mentioned brining helps you to get to a little higher temp without drying out.

I'm going to try this, thanks.

 

[Brent Berwick]

While this is standard practice for some meats (beef, in particular), applying it to poultry and pork can be dangerous. Both of these are more prone to harmful bacteria and should be kept at about 40 degrees or less until they go into the cooker.

So you go straight from the fridge to the smoker?

 

[Brent Berwick]

I will try to clarify that in the article.


Go for it if you feel you've got the probe placed in the right location. The challenge always seems to me knowing exactly where to place it to get a good reading. For me, I like to use the breast because it's a big, easy target to temp, and when it gets into that 160-165°F range, then I will take an instant-read thermometer and poke the thigh in several locations to check it.

I see what you're saying now, thanks.

 

[ChadVKealey]

So you go straight from the fridge to the smoker?

From a food safety perspective, you don't want it hanging around at (typical indoor) room temp. A short amount of time (15-20 minutes) isn't going to hurt anything, but letting it sit for, say, an hour in a 70-80 degree kitchen isn't a great idea.

I'm fortunate enough to have an enclosed (but not insulated) back patio. It provides protection from the wind, but the temp is marginally above outdoor temp. I have a small fridge out there and that's where I keep the bird until it's time to cook. I do all of the prep (apply an herb butter under and over the skin, truss & spit it up for the rotisserie) out there as well, so it never gets above ~50 degrees until it's in the cooker.

 

[Brent Berwick]

From a food safety perspective, you don't want it hanging around at (typical indoor) room temp. A short amount of time (15-20 minutes) isn't going to hurt anything, but letting it sit for, say, an hour in a 70-80 degree kitchen isn't a great idea.

I'm fortunate enough to have an enclosed (but not insulated) back patio. It provides protection from the wind, but the temp is marginally above outdoor temp. I have a small fridge out there and that's where I keep the bird until it's time to cook. I do all of the prep (apply an herb butter under and over the skin, truss & spit it up for the rotisserie) out there as well, so it never gets above ~50 degrees until it's in the cooker.

Gotcha, I'll reduce my prep time to about 30, thanks.

 

[Dwain Pannell]

I’m just happy you’re learning all this now vs on the big day. You’re going to do very well because of the failure. That’s why we test: to find the kinks in our plan. Well done sir!

From a food safety perspective, you don't want it hanging around at (typical indoor) room temp. A short amount of time (15-20 minutes) isn't going to hurt anything, but letting it sit for, say, an hour in a 70-80 degree kitchen isn't a great idea.

I’ve heard most all the Chef shows on TV say to let it rest at room temp prior to slicing. In fact, I just heard Bobby Flay say to let it rest 1 hour. I heard someone say 2 hours the other day. The Butterball site agrees with your 15 min rest though Alton says rest 1 hour: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/honey-brined-smoked-turkey-recipe2-2203632

 

[Brent Berwick]

I’m just happy you’re learning all this now vs on the big day. You’re going to do very well because of the failure. That’s why we test: to find the kinks in our plan. Well done sir!



I’ve heard most all the Chef shows on TV say to let it rest at room temp prior to slicing. In fact, I just heard Bobby Flay say to let it rest 1 hour. I heard someone say 2 hours the other day. The Butterball site agrees with your 15 min rest though Alton says rest 1 hour: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/honey-brined-smoked-turkey-recipe2-2203632

Me and you both.

As for the resting, we're referring here to before the bird goes on the smoker not after.

 

[JayHeyl]

I’ve heard most all the Chef shows on TV say to let it rest at room temp prior to slicing. In fact, I just heard Bobby Flay say to let it rest 1 hour. I heard someone say 2 hours the other day. The Butterball site agrees with your 15 min rest though Alton says rest 1 hour: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/honey-brined-smoked-turkey-recipe2-2203632

I recall one time years ago when Flay was doing the show with Jacqui Malouf, he made a big thing out of basting the turkey every 15 minutes. An hour later I watched Alton Brown say to put the turkey in the oven and leave it alone until you thought it was nearly done. He specifically said basting did nothing for the moisture level of the meat and just made the skin soggy, not to mention extending the cook time due to all the heat leaving the oven every time you opened the door.

As for resting, it's my experience that at 15 minutes the turkey is still going to be so hot it will be difficult to work with unless wearing some kind of heat shield gloves. I would take 15 minutes as an absolute minimum and 1 hour as the probable maximum, varying with the size of the bird. If you put it in some kind of insulated container it will probably hold for several hours and not require reheating.

 

[Timothy F. Lewis]

The bacteria issues that are coming up here I find fascinating, an hour standing before cooking, is not going to be an issue, you need to get it too 160-165 anyway, all dangerous bacteria die at just over 140. The rest time, is where things can get dicey, I’m not wild about long rest times, generally not longer than half an hour, then dispatch the whole thing and get the carcass under water for “stock development” quickly! Unless it’s a packed house where I end up standing in the kitchen snagging treats for myself!
Keeping it cooler won’t hurt anything but, I don’t see the danger there as much as some of the other things I’ve seen chatted about around the forum. If I had your set up Chad, I’d be right there with you, little house, small kitchen. Working area, very limited. I have been known to store things in the “extra” car! That is more often for things like desserts (1 fridge now) it works pretty well.