SmokeFire issues on YouTube.
- Thread starter Bruno
- Start date
IMO, they are going about it the wrong way. Unless they are going to scrub the internet of all the previous claims, putting out contradictory claims now does nothing but send a mixed message. More importantly, it really makes people wonder why they should buy a SmokeFire instead of another grill that I don't need to use a drip pan. It's crazy, with months of saying they don't need a pan, they say now you do. After months of saying the pan would mess up the air flow, I guess it magically doesn't now.
Come clean, do a BBQ Guys type video saying how to work around the issues while they are working to fix it. They have no intention of making things right. Just change their story and hope no one remembers. Kevin was doing interviews a couple of months back completely contradicting what he is saying in these videos today. Also, not mentioning the pans and wrapping are to prevent fires is bull. Credibility lost.
Jason in CA
TVWBB All-Star
I've seen other (let's just say very large more powerful companies) do exactly that in order to save face. They have even gone as far as atacking their supporters in order to try and be correct. But like you say, people remember. And it's not working out for those companies that have tried to whitewash things.
Given how things are going at the moment, it makes me wonder if Weber's next step will be to come out with something saying that everyone having problems is doing it wrong.
I saw someone with a comment asking what is the point of the flavorizer bars if we are supposed to use the drip pans now. That is a damned good point. They hyped up those bars for months, now I guess they aren't so important. Also, by not mentioning the pans will help prevent grease fires, you are not giving your customers any warning that without them, it might happen. I have worked in corporate comms in crisis situations and this approach NEVER works. Come clean, explain what happened and what you are going to do. Customers can be extremely understanding, especially when you have a legion of fans like Weber does. When you start this revisionist history stuff and insulting people's intelligence, it always comes back to bite you in the ***. BBM has a video explaining exactly why you don't need a drip pan based on what Weber told him to his face. If he felt like he may have been lied to before, I am sure he is livid right now.
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Kelley Brown
TVWBB Fan
In these kinds of situations, lawyers now drive all communications.
Phone scripts, email scripts, video content and messaging. That's why they said 72hrs. Legal review.
They are in damage control now and trying to minimize the payouts the best they can. Their pivot is how they avoid the big 'R' word (recall). Recall means liability for freight/transportation which can include sending carriers to people's homes to load up the equipment. Also the requirement for many years of coverage for those that do not return them.
Yes, I've been through this sort of thing. More than once.
Phone scripts, email scripts, video content and messaging. That's why they said 72hrs. Legal review.
They are in damage control now and trying to minimize the payouts the best they can. Their pivot is how they avoid the big 'R' word (recall). Recall means liability for freight/transportation which can include sending carriers to people's homes to load up the equipment. Also the requirement for many years of coverage for those that do not return them.
Yes, I've been through this sort of thing. More than once.
Sorry for the long post but.....Simple fact is that the smoke fires fan seems two run at two speeds, slow and hurricane which is needed to make 600F. When that fan runs on high it blows ash & ejects embers into the bottom of the pit. I did a lot of non cook testing (just running pellet). If you restrict air flow, it will not blow ash as much but has trouble maintaining temp when you try to go 300F and up.
Their design of the way air travels into the fire pot and ash tray confounds me. There are two holes going to the ash box (before and after a slight restriction), the the fire pot housing itself has holes drilled mostly around the bottom of it but the housing has more than a 1/4” gap all around the bottom of it and doesn’t sit flush on the bottom. Therefore when the fast turns on in fast mode it blows air under the fire pot forcing ash and embers upward, hit the bottom of the heat shield and fall all around it clogging the grease channels. I’ve been able to get ash near 75% in the ash box and 25% in the inside of the pit at best on 2 hours at 200F and 2 hours at 275F. With that said, ash did accumulate under the fire pot on the small ramp leading to the ash box builds up and appears it would eventually clog completely. There just doesn’t seem to be a clear driving force to push the ash down into the ash catch instead of up and out into the insides of the pit. I cannot believe marketing and engineering had much interaction on this project. “Virtually eliminates ash”, “Ash won’t blow into the cookbox and onto food”, “ Low Maintenance bucket free ash and grease removal”....how could any person who tested or demonstrated these units pre-sale possibly have read those statements and no said “***!!!” Those statements are complete lies!!!
Hope they do the right thing but sadly don’t see them doing anything but deflecting and not directly addressing those claims made in advertising!!
I have two 22” WSMs, a 14” WSM, a jumbo Joe, a Smokey Joe, a Spirit gas grill, he’ll My wife even had my grooms’s cake at my wedding a custom made WSM cake ( she’s awesome and bought my first wsm while dating). Weber is about to destroy any and all brand loyalty I had for them. I am embarrassed to have bought this ex6 and regret buying it from Weber because they likely won’t refund my money. Only time will tell....
Their design of the way air travels into the fire pot and ash tray confounds me. There are two holes going to the ash box (before and after a slight restriction), the the fire pot housing itself has holes drilled mostly around the bottom of it but the housing has more than a 1/4” gap all around the bottom of it and doesn’t sit flush on the bottom. Therefore when the fast turns on in fast mode it blows air under the fire pot forcing ash and embers upward, hit the bottom of the heat shield and fall all around it clogging the grease channels. I’ve been able to get ash near 75% in the ash box and 25% in the inside of the pit at best on 2 hours at 200F and 2 hours at 275F. With that said, ash did accumulate under the fire pot on the small ramp leading to the ash box builds up and appears it would eventually clog completely. There just doesn’t seem to be a clear driving force to push the ash down into the ash catch instead of up and out into the insides of the pit. I cannot believe marketing and engineering had much interaction on this project. “Virtually eliminates ash”, “Ash won’t blow into the cookbox and onto food”, “ Low Maintenance bucket free ash and grease removal”....how could any person who tested or demonstrated these units pre-sale possibly have read those statements and no said “***!!!” Those statements are complete lies!!!
Hope they do the right thing but sadly don’t see them doing anything but deflecting and not directly addressing those claims made in advertising!!
I have two 22” WSMs, a 14” WSM, a jumbo Joe, a Smokey Joe, a Spirit gas grill, he’ll My wife even had my grooms’s cake at my wedding a custom made WSM cake ( she’s awesome and bought my first wsm while dating). Weber is about to destroy any and all brand loyalty I had for them. I am embarrassed to have bought this ex6 and regret buying it from Weber because they likely won’t refund my money. Only time will tell....
Scott Shimano
TVWBB Member
I'm living in Bizarro World - this morning I watched the Weber CYA video series, and then one from Kevin personally (above). As I anticipate my comments being deleted, this is what I wrote ...
"... seems like I just woke up from a bad dream ... in that dream, the #SmokeFire release was plagued with occasional (yet too common and too similar) issues, Weber was not publicly owning the problems as design flaws (or at a minimum, overselling how the units should be able to operate), and then adding "insult to injury" they had you roll out some videos which give "duct tape" fixes instead of promises of lasting solutions ... heck, in the dream, one of the videos counseled about cooking with the lid open to get social media content (isn't that funny
?) Anyways, great video content about your #SmokeFire"
Lynn Dollar
TVWBB Emerald Member
I've become bored with this until we get some new info, but I'm seeing some things that make me think throwing dirt on the SmokeFire grave , may be a bit premature. There are YT vids made by people not having any serious problems.
Gotta figure into the equation , that Weber might be a victim of their own hype. They created the buzz in how they hyped the launch. And in these days where social media rules, they've paid for it when the product did not meet the hype or had problems. And social media doesn't reflect reality, in a lot of ways. Sometimes its way too small a sample size.
The only real problem I can see at the moment, are the grease fires. And that's serious. But I'd like to see this investigated some more. I wonder how they're starting ? Back in high school, a buddy of mine worked at a gas station. He use to scare everyone to death by putting a lit cigarette into a bucket of gasoline. Embers won't ignite gasoline. It takes an open flame. I don't know why grease would differ ?
And it may be possilble that issues like embers and ash, are common with pellet poopers.
Jury may still be out.
Gotta figure into the equation , that Weber might be a victim of their own hype. They created the buzz in how they hyped the launch. And in these days where social media rules, they've paid for it when the product did not meet the hype or had problems. And social media doesn't reflect reality, in a lot of ways. Sometimes its way too small a sample size.
The only real problem I can see at the moment, are the grease fires. And that's serious. But I'd like to see this investigated some more. I wonder how they're starting ? Back in high school, a buddy of mine worked at a gas station. He use to scare everyone to death by putting a lit cigarette into a bucket of gasoline. Embers won't ignite gasoline. It takes an open flame. I don't know why grease would differ ?
And it may be possilble that issues like embers and ash, are common with pellet poopers.
Jury may still be out.
Here is a picture of the fan and ash system along with my perceived observations.
1. The fan is mounted on the bottom but air enters the fire pot chamber in this direction.
2. The side “baffles” have a gap on the top where air flows over them.
3. The holes on each side extend before and after the “baffels” open to the fire box.
4.the hole below the fire pot grate is a ramp extending to 5 in the pic. Being the fire pot housing that goes around the fire pot grate has a 1/4” or larger gap all the way around it, air flows under the fire pot grate but the ramp is not very steep so ash kind of piles up and sticks below the fire pot grate. The more you use the pit the more I see this being stickier and dirtier worsening this pile up and making it harder for ash to slide down the ramp. This air gap may have been intended to force air to sweep ash down but rapid air flow entering here seems to be a cause if blowing ash an embers up and out of the fire pot.
5. The blue line is the extent of the ramp below the fire pot. The ramp is not very steep( just like the pellet hopper lol). Seems like some air could travel opposite the direction the ash is supposed to be traveling (toward the fire pot but up the ramp).
Anyone out there with thoughts on how you think this was supposed to “virtually eliminate ash and keep ash out of the cooking chamber and off food”? Hope someone out there can provide some insight on what Weber May have been thinking with this design???
1. The fan is mounted on the bottom but air enters the fire pot chamber in this direction.
2. The side “baffles” have a gap on the top where air flows over them.
3. The holes on each side extend before and after the “baffels” open to the fire box.
4.the hole below the fire pot grate is a ramp extending to 5 in the pic. Being the fire pot housing that goes around the fire pot grate has a 1/4” or larger gap all the way around it, air flows under the fire pot grate but the ramp is not very steep so ash kind of piles up and sticks below the fire pot grate. The more you use the pit the more I see this being stickier and dirtier worsening this pile up and making it harder for ash to slide down the ramp. This air gap may have been intended to force air to sweep ash down but rapid air flow entering here seems to be a cause if blowing ash an embers up and out of the fire pot.
5. The blue line is the extent of the ramp below the fire pot. The ramp is not very steep( just like the pellet hopper lol). Seems like some air could travel opposite the direction the ash is supposed to be traveling (toward the fire pot but up the ramp).
Anyone out there with thoughts on how you think this was supposed to “virtually eliminate ash and keep ash out of the cooking chamber and off food”? Hope someone out there can provide some insight on what Weber May have been thinking with this design???
Lynn Dollar
TVWBB Emerald Member
I've seen this complaint of ash on food in pellet poopers, long before the SmokeFire was even thought of, in fact , I mentioned in the very first reply to the 55 page first thread on these smokers
https://tvwbb.com/threads/new-weber-pellet-grills-for-2020.78673/
https://tvwbb.com/threads/new-weber-pellet-grills-for-2020.78673/
Dave - Unixadm
TVWBB Super Fan
Ash is common in pellet smokers. I’d say the Smokefire is quite a bit worse. The amount of ash coming out of the chamber is pretty significant.
I saw this post from Kevin Kolman on Instagram and I have to say that it in my opinion it is patronising to Weber consumer base and dismissive of the problems that numerous purchasers have experienced.
I'm living in Bizarro World - this morning I watched the Weber CYA video series, and then one from Kevin personally (above). As I anticipate my comments being deleted, this is what I wrote ...
"... seems like I just woke up from a bad dream ... in that dream, the #SmokeFire release was plagued with occasional (yet too common and too similar) issues, Weber was not publicly owning the problems as design flaws (or at a minimum, overselling how the units should be able to operate), and then adding "insult to injury" they had you roll out some videos which give "duct tape" fixes instead of promises of lasting solutions ... heck, in the dream, one of the videos counseled about cooking with the lid open to get social media content (isn't that funny
Re Item 4, is the area below the fire pot grate cleaned without removing the burn pot and pellet pot grate? I'm guessing not since steps 6 & 7 of the Annual Engine Cleaning from the user manual are about cleaning this area and do require removal. If not, this does seem like ash build up could be a problem over the course of the year.
Larry,
You either have to remove the pellet slide and fire pot housing or remove the glow plug element to remove the fire pot grate. Guess you could use a shop vac to suck out any build up also. The angle of the ash slide directly below the fire pot doesn’t leave much room there. And after burning pellets for 4 hrs yesterday I opened it up and had to push the ash down, it seemed kind of sticky. Seems to me there should be some small amount of air flow hitting the ash slide from directed from the top of it (where I wrote the 4 in the pic ) back towards the ash box and away from the fire pot. If Weber wont take this back and refund me I am going to start drilling, cutting and trying to make the ash catching system work better.
As an old coworker used to say “The only way to ruin a rotten egg is to break it open and $&@! In it.” Lol
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I agree with that. My Rec Tec does make a very small amount of ash, but I have never had a problem with it getting on food or the thick layers billowing around that some people are showing. I attribute that, in part, to my effort to clean the grill after every 2nd or 3rd cook.
Jon Tofte
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
A cheap, little Shop Vac with cheap refill bags is almost a must-have in my mind for using a pellet grill - Weber or otherwise. I previously cleaned my Rec Tec without one, just using a small hand-held broom and a rag. The Shop Vac makes it a breeze in comparison. It is pretty clear that at the least, you will HAVE to very regularly clean a SmokeFire just like any other pellet grill. That isn't so bad except that they hyped to the contrary in their pre-release marketing. It seems they should have known better if they tested it thoroughly like they claimed.
Tony-Chicago
TVWBB Wizard
It is not that embers won't start a fire. Embers will start a fire
please do not test this
In the example you stated the concept is:
The gas component above the liquid is what ignites not so much the liquid. That is why you quickly toss it in not lay it lazily next to. Put the ember next to the gasoline and well like I said do not test that.
While there are many issues with using the grill as expected, I think the worst thing is the embers leaving the grill. Starting a deck or house or worse on fire. Using during fire restrictions...
Rich Dahl
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
That's one of the reasons I wanted a pellet grill was for use during the fire restrictions we have in the summer, but if they are not allowed I have my two gassers so we'll get by. Already just being able to set and forget it in the winter I wish I had done this earlier.
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Tony-Chicago
TVWBB Wizard
[QUOTE="Tony-Chicago,
While there are many issues with using the grill as expected, I think the worst thing is the embers leaving the grill. Starting a deck or house or worse on fire. Using during fire restrictions...
Most appliances use electric starters/pilots instead of open flame
One bad fire and Weber is gone. However why am I giving them advice
While there are many issues with using the grill as expected, I think the worst thing is the embers leaving the grill. Starting a deck or house or worse on fire. Using during fire restrictions...
Most appliances use electric starters/pilots instead of open flame
One bad fire and Weber is gone. However why am I giving them advice