Seeking Handgun Insight


 
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One important concern that was only mentioned in passing above, is "where will your shots end up"? As a wood carver, a critical concern for my personal safety is "where will the blade go next"? Using a weapon isn't a matter of simple point and shoot no matter how much training and experience you have. Real law enforcement or military combat experience exposes the fact that bullets don't stop at the barrier to your sight. Virtually all walls in any home or even the exterior of a home will not stop a bullet. Where will it go next? Even floors are not typically bullet-proof. If you are thinking of home defense, you need to understand your situation -- materials in your home, proximity and materials in neighboring homes. Where are your neighbors or passers-by? Do you have any idea if there is actually a bullet-proof, safe place in your home?

This became very relevant to me when we moved from secluded 10 acres in the woods with some concrete interior barriers (but not the exterior walls) to a townhouse surrounded my many other units with none built from materials that would stop any bullet. In addition to gun safety and training, you need to think about your situation and how an intruder might act even if you think you are in a defensive position. And as said, the laws don't really care if you kill or injure someone with a firearm. You are the one who took the action. Even your intruder or attacker can sue.
 
RichPB (richlife) said:
One important concern that was only mentioned in passing above, is "where will you shots end up"? As a wood carver, a critical concern for my personal safety is "where will the blade go next"? Using a weapon isn't a matter of simple point and shoot no matter how much training and experience you have. Real law enforcement or military combat experience exposes the fact that bullets don't stop at the barrier to you sight. Virtually all walls in any home or even the exterior of a home will not stop a bullet. Where will it go next? Even floors are not typically bullet-proof. If you are thinking of home defense, you need to understand your situation -- materials in your home, proximity and materials in neighboring homes. Where are your neighbors or passers-by? Do you have any idea if there is actually a bullet-proof, safe place in your home?

This became very relevant to me when we moved from secluded 10 acres in the woods with some concrete interior barriers (but not the exterior walls) to a townhouse surrounded my many other units with none built from materials that would stop any bullet. In addition to gun safety and training, you need to think about your situation and how an intruder might act even if you think you are in a defensive position. And as said, the laws don't really care if you kill or injure someone with a firearm. You are the one who took the action. Even your intruder or attacker can sue.
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Another case for a shotgun. Much but not all of the issue you present can be mitigated by #1. Training and practice. #2. Cartridge selection. Modern ammunition has come a long way in the last 40-50 years...high tech Hollow points, composite bullets, even snake loads(shot).
 
russ olin said:
Interesting thread. But, for someone starting out & needing a home defense weapon. Once again I nominate Henry 410 lever action Axe shotgun.
Why? The hogleg shotgun is very short, weighs only 6lbs. And is easy to hit with what you are aiming at. And is easy to learn to shoot for a beginner.
Plus there are several deadly 410 defense rounds currently on the market. It hardly kicks more than a BB gun. Yet with a 14 inch barrel it will shoot much farther that a 410 pistol. I also own a Smith & Wesson Governor. Which also shoots 410 shotgun shells, 45 long colt or 45 ACP. Also a good choice for home defense. But, it kicks like a Missouri mule & is not pleasant to just shoot around. I would not recommend for someone just starting out. On the other hand the Henry Axe is just a joy to shoot. I could plink rounds all day & never get tired of it. If I can find the shotgun shells. LOL
The Henry & Smith/Wesson guns are not cheap guns. Both are USA built & both are top quality. If it was me I would look for a AXE. Although not legal in all states, so check your state.
Cheers,
Russ
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The Henry Axe wouldn’t be on my list of home defense guns for several reasons, including a lack of a stock, the lever action and the .410 gauge. You can shoulder a stocked shotgun or place the stock under your armpit for stability. The Axe cannot be shoulder fired and if you’re ever wounded in a gun fight, you want every option of control available. I practice both right and left handed and shoulder and under arm firing.
I was a competitive shotgun shooter for many years. In that world, the .410 is considered an expert gun. It’s also an expensive round to shoot. You sacrifice both the quantity of shot in the round and the pattern of the gun in a defensive situation. A 12 or 20 gauge full stock shotgun is a better option.
Both the Governor and Judge are fun guns to shoot, but I wouldn’t use the .410 round in it for home defense unless it was the Winchester PDX load specifically designed for the defensive use of these types of handguns. It features 6 plated disc projectiles and 16 plated BB shot. Otherwise, shooting a .410 shotgun shell in a rifled short barrel causes a highly unpredictable pattern.
 
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Mark Silver said:
The Henry Axe wouldn’t be on my list of home defense guns for several reasons, including a lack of a stock, the lever action and the .410 gauge. You can shoulder a stocked shotgun or place the stock under your armpit for stability. The Axe cannot be shoulder fired and if you’re ever wounded in a gun fight, you want every option of control available. I practice both right and left handed and shoulder and under arm firing.
I was a competitive shotgun shooter for many years. In that world, the .410 is considered an expert gun. It’s also an expensive round to shoot. You sacrifice both the quantity of shot in the round and the pattern of the gun in a defensive situation. A 12 or 20 gauge is a better option.
Both the Governor and Judge are fun guns to shoot, but I wouldn’t use the .410 round in it for home defense unless it was the Winchester PDX load specifically designed for the defensive use of these types of handguns. It features 6 plated disc projectiles and 16 plated BB shot. Otherwise, shooting a .410 shotgun shell in a rifled short barrel causes a highly unpredictable pattern.
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I agree with some of this, but not a lot of it. Yes, the 410 round is a expensive round to shoot these days. If you can even find any. As far as not having the rear stock that makes it faster to shoot not slower. The time it takes to get the stock to your shoulder I will already have fired a round & beaten you to the draw. For the record right here in my kitchen I have a long barrel 410 Stevens double barrel shotgun 3in Magnum. My first gun at age 12. I was born in 57 the gun was made in 51. With the double barrel 2 rounds & you are done. Have to reload. With the Henry Axe 5 in the pipe & one in the chamber. 6 rounds. Plus you can add rounds thru the side gate. Like it or not the Axe is very popular. Some love it for home defense, some say it's worthless. But for older people arthritis, weakening hands & what not its a great weapon. Once again low recoil. Not everyone is young & overly strong. As always opinions vary. For the record in our state if some one comes thru your windows or doors with a knife or weapon legally you are in your right to protect yourself & property. Love me some Colorado. Its actually a Clint Eastwood Make my day law.
 
BFletcher said:
Thanks everyone for your feedback; there is informative detail here for me to consider.

I'll utilize local resources to determine my path for training. When I was a kid and into my teenage years Dad took us to an open range where I shot a pistol for target shooting and various shotguns for clay shooting. A handful of times, we went hunting. But I never took any of those firearms with me when I moved out and had my own family and I've never used one in my adult life. So I view myself as a new user.

I won't engage here on the topic of decisions for and against force but I recognize that life is precious and the thought is definitely on my mind.
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Fletch,
It sounds to me that you have a handle on this and I'm confident that you will make the right decision.

Here's another idea. How about purchasing a handgun to just have fun with? Plinking and target shooting is a ton of fun and a .22 caliber auto loader is hard to beat.
 
If you're seeking to plink and just want range time or outdoor time, I really enjoy this S&W 22 Victory. It has a few different configs and is a very reliable and inexpensive to own. I've used it to intro my kids to handguns and they've enjoyed learning and honing skills with it. And my wife learned on this too before going to 9mm. https://www.smith-wesson.com/products/sw22-victory
 
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russ olin said:
I agree with some of this, but not a lot of it. Yes, the 410 round is a expensive round to shoot these days. If you can even find any. As far as not having the rear stock that makes it faster to shoot not slower. The time it takes to get the stock to your shoulder I will already have fired a round & beaten you to the draw. For the record right here in my kitchen I have a long barrel 410 Stevens double barrel shotgun 3in Magnum. My first gun at age 12. I was born in 57 the gun was made in 51. With the double barrel 2 rounds & you are done. Have to reload. With the Henry Axe 5 in the pipe & one in the chamber. 6 rounds. Plus you can add rounds thru the side gate. Like it or not the Axe is very popular. Some love it for home defense, some say it's worthless. But for older people arthritis, weakening hands & what not its a great weapon. Once again low recoil. Not everyone is young & overly strong. As always opinions vary. For the record in our state if some one comes thru your windows or doors with a knife or weapon legally you are in your right to protect yourself & property. Love me some Colorado. Its actually a Clint Eastwood Make my day law.
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This is why they make both chocolate and vanilla ice cream. My big concern—suppose you get shot or otherwise injured in your shooting arm or hand. Can you switch hands and still rack the lever with one hand? I’ve not seen one with the “Rifleman” loop lever. I know you can rack a pump shogun one handed, either hand, especially a full stocked one. BTW, my home defense shotgun only has an 18” barrel so it’s pretty darn quick to get into firing position, including from the shoulder, under the arm or from the hip. Lastly, I’m five years older than you. I’m both slower and weaker than I once was, but I still practice to keep my skills up. Training counts for everything in a highly stressful situation like a home invasion robbery and potential firefight.
 
Brett-EDH said:
If you're seeking to plink and just want range time or outdoor time, I really enjoy this S&W 22 Victory. It has a few different configs and is a very reliable and inexpensive to to own. I've used it to intro my kids to handguns and they've enjoyed learning and honing skills with it. And my wife learned on this too before going to 9mm. https://www.smith-wesson.com/products/sw22-victory
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I also like that pistol alot. I was torn between the Victory and the Ruger Mark 4 (the only Ruger Mark series to own becase of ease of cleaning, unlike previous Mark series). For that reason only, I chose the Mark 4, which can be disassembled without tools. IIRC, the Victory needs an allen wrench to disassemble. Both are great guns and great shooters.
 
Jay D in Jersey said:
You are clueless. Stick to insurance...and as such, have someone that knows true, comprehensive risk management answer such internet questions...thank me later.
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Yeah, he might be the best cook on these threads. If you had posted a comment that showed little knowledge of cooking, he would school you without needing to call you "Clueless".

Please read Chris's response and at least give him the courtesy of a response. Brett was giving a response to a poster.

And that is what the private messaging feature is for on these boards.

No disrespect intended at all. But calling someone "clueless" about your own, personal knowledge is just sophomoric. For the record, my cousin was NJ State Trooper for twenty years. He agrees.

Bottom line is absolutely no one should take firearm advice from a bbq site. We get it. But that was a cheap shot.
 
Tim Campbell said:
Bottom line is absolutely no one should take firearm advice from a bbq site. We get it. But that was a cheap shot.
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I'm confident it is appreciated that you come to the defense of our members but please allow me to respond to this: my request was to seek some recommendations from our users on handguns and safe storage measures. I've spoken with some family members on this but I want to expand my base so that I can give consideration to a wider breadth of options. I did that here on this prestigious site, exclusively, because I view many members here as genuine, helpful friends :)
 
BFletcher said:
I'm confident it is appreciated that you come to the defense of our members but please allow me to respond to this: my request was to seek some recommendations from our users on handguns and safe storage measures. I've spoken with some family members on this but I want to expand my base so that I can give consideration to a wider breadth of options. I did that here on this prestigious site, exclusively, because I view many members here as genuine, helpful friends :)
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You definitely got good advice. My issue isn't the message, but the way it is expressed.
 
Tim Campbell said:
Yeah, he might be the best cook on these threads. If you had posted a comment that showed little knowledge of cooking, he would school you without needing to call you "Clueless".

Please read Chris's response and at least give him the courtesy of a response. Brett was giving a response to a poster.

And that is what the private messaging feature is for on these boards.

No disrespect intended at all. But calling someone "clueless" about your own, personal knowledge is just sophomoric. For the record, my cousin was NJ State Trooper for twenty years. He agrees.

Bottom line is absolutely no one should take firearm advice from a bbq site. We get it. But that was a cheap shot.
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Tim, thank you. I'm okay with Jay and his response. I have him on IGNORE and only saw this after Chris made his post.

It's an internet forum and some people like to flex. It's all okay. Jay has his perspective and I have mine.

I grew up in a LE family, with over 75 years combined LE experience, and I have been around guns, pistols and long, since I was very young. My experience is just my experience.

I have diverse experience on many different handguns and only a few long guns.

I am not LE and do not portend to be LE. My experience is my own real world experience.

If Jay likes to boast and use blustery language, that's on him. I've reached a point in life that I don't give 1,000 you-know-what what someone says or thinks about me. I have plenty of self-confidence.

I appreciate the defense. But let's just let this die in the background. Jay will be Jay and life moves on.

Now let's talk about manual transmissions, race cars, bbq's, recipes, vacations, beer/wines/sparkling drinks and what not.

Mr. Fletch is loaded with plenty of good info to get to next-steps.

Life is good. Live a good life. Again, thank you. Carry on fellow members. We're all good here.
 
Brett-EDH said:
I appreciate the defense. But let's just let this die in the background. Jay will be Jay and life moves on.

Now let's talk about manual transmissions, race cars, bbq's, recipes, vacations, beer/wines/sparkling drinks and what not.

Mr. Fletch is loaded with plenty of good info to get to next-steps.

Life is good. Live a good life. Again, thank you. Carry on fellow members. We're all good here.
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Now you're starting to tick me off. The best cook and overwhelming self-confidence. Screw something up, for crying out loud.
 
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