Restoring and Converting a 44" Vieluxe to NG


 
Greg May

Greg May

New member
I came across a functioning LP 44" Vieluxe on CraigsList. My dream is to convert it to NG, replace some worn or rusted parts, and maybe even mount it permanently in an outdoor kitchen island. If this should be split into two or three threads, I would be happy to do so.

The biggest challenge is finding parts. Weber flat out said they have no parts at all. Looking at the schematics on ereplacementparts.com, it appears that I need replace the main manifold assembly (orifices and control valves), infrared burner assembly (orifice, I assume), side burner orifices, side burner base (yellow vs white, different part numbers), and side burner manifold (control valves for side and infrared burners). Any idea of why the side burner bases are different?

The quick and dirty approach is to add a regulator at 7" WC, and install larger orifices for the 4 mains, smoker, 2 sides, and infrared, but I would like to do the best job possible. Is there any way to find out what the NG regulator was set at from Weber? Or maybe the orifice sizes and back calculate?

And then the control valves. They look like the early summit valves, so would it be possible (advisable) to purchase Weber NG manifolds (similar BTU rating) from that era and swap the valves onto my manifold? Or??

I appreciate any ideas and knowledge the community can offer!
 
It sounds like you have a serious project planned. I am interested to see some updates and progress as the rebuild moves on.
Good luck.
 
Hi Greg!
Welcome to the forum. I think your best help on this would come from LMichaels who is definitely the go-to guy here for conversion and control valve challenges. I imagine he will take note of this thread, but you might want to private message him.

For my very tiny two-cents worth, I wouldn't be surprised if your swap-out idea of using a Summit NG manifold as a source for valves would work well. I had briefly tried to help someone from whom I bought a beat-up Summit with the Vieluxe he was buying. He was just trying to replace the igniters and from what I could see, the Summit igniter was at least very similar. That, of course, is NOT the case with a lot of Vieluxe parts. These are definitely the cat's meow but come at a steep price of trying to restore and keep them running due to parts unavailability. It is very, very sad that Weber abandoned helping people who shelled out a ton of $ for these "life-time" grills.

I wish you the best. See what Larry Michaels suggests. If you can, post some pictures! (You can read about how to do that, but basically you need to use a web photo hosting site such as Imgur or TinyPic.)

Jon
 
This should be entirely possible, and I'm not sure what the valves are like on the V, but if they are "continuously variable" then you should be able to get away with just orifice replacements. If they are "low, medium high" then you probably need to replace the valves. Again, please do not take my two cents as solid, just a starting point.

Best of luck!

Tim
 
Greg the proper regulator to use would drop NG line pressure to 3"WC IIRC (I'll need to confirm this). The reason that is done is so if your line pressure fluctuates from on/off loads in the house (furnace, water heater, etc) and you're using the grill on a low and slow you will not have an issue of flame out (which is actually very dangerous). I have not seen a Vieluxe in the flesh in many many years so I am unsure which valves Weber put in them. I am pretty sure the side and IR burners though all that is necessary would be orifice size change and you'd be golden. Main burners are typically the issue. Chris did a video write up on how to disassemble (or photo step by step) and clean/lube the valve assemblies. It was REALLY good. If you follow that and open one main burner valve post a photo here of the insides from it I could walk you through and also post a chart for the proper orifice size at your gas pressure. I have done these both ways BTW with and without regulator. You have to keep safety factors in mind as you are working flammable gas. But it's quite straight forward if you take your time and some care along the way.
If you can get the photos posted I can walk you through the process and you'll have a nice working grill. BTW from what I recall there were 2 versions of that grill. One for mounting and one ONLY for the cart. So I highly recommend for that portion to leave it as you found it. Beside that cart IIRC is all 304 SS just like my Wolf.
Have fun and as Monty Python would say "You lucky Bahstard"
 
Larry,

Thanks for your words of wisdom. I would like to learn as much as possible, so here are some follow-on questions, if you have time. Do you have a way to confirm Webers original pressure setting? Why are the side and IR burners a different situation than the main and smoker burners as far as not needing different valves? My intention was to mount the entire cart in the island. It is a quality structure and very rectangular, so easy to integrate. The only modification I am considering is removing the handle section of the large tube that is the top of the frame, and re-inforcing the frame from front to back on both ends to make up for the tubing I removed. I would make sure that the island is vented. Do you see a danger in imbedding it this way? Thanks again!
 
By the way, being a convert from propane to natural gas (my "new" house has NG, old house did not), let me just say that once your conversion is complete, you will have the ultimate grilling machine. A Vieluxe with no tank to change, ever? Built in? Yes, please!
 
Greg May said:
Larry,

Thanks for your words of wisdom. I would like to learn as much as possible, so here are some follow-on questions, if you have time. Do you have a way to confirm Webers original pressure setting? Why are the side and IR burners a different situation than the main and smoker burners as far as not needing different valves? My intention was to mount the entire cart in the island. It is a quality structure and very rectangular, so easy to integrate. The only modification I am considering is removing the handle section of the large tube that is the top of the frame, and re-inforcing the frame from front to back on both ends to make up for the tubing I removed. I would make sure that the island is vented. Do you see a danger in imbedding it this way? Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I'd be wary of ventilation issues. I know you're in CA so you have the luxury of constantly pleasant weather and perhaps the need to maneuver the grill is not as strong as for us who live near the arctic circle (well at least it feels that way high temps only expected to be in the 20's until next week!) so unless we have covered decks or patios fixed in place grills are useless 80% of the time. Frankly though I never liked grills mounted in a cabinet and even if I lived in pleasant places like CA or AZ etc I would never do it. IMO a high quality grill on a great cart is a work of art.
Not sure what your question is about the valves for IR burner and side burner vs main burner.
As for what the original pressure is from Weber it doesn't really matter. What matters is if you buy a regulator (most come set to 3" WC but can be adjusted up to 6" WC) what matters most is that you set orifice size accordingly. The regulator only serves to keep things constant
I forgot to look at mine but I will and post it's setting from factory as I have not changed it. It can make a difference though. When I gave my son in law my old Genesis I could not figure out why it was getting so hot it was binding the valves and burning food. Then I realized when I ran it at my house I ran it "regulated" at 3"WC but his like had no regulator on it and was running at just over 7"WC. I simply changed the orifices to properly sized and he's grillin like a pro now
 
Larry, sorry I wasn't clear. For the main burners, it seems that you would advise changing both orifices and control valves, but for the side and IR burners you would be OK with changing orifices only. I wanted to understand why control valve changes were not as critical for the sides and IR. Thanks!
 
My first attempt at posting an image. Looks like the control valves are continuous, at least to this noob. Does this mean I won't have to change them out, or is it possible that there are two different continuous type valves, one for NG, one for LP?

NtzGP5J.jpg
 
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Hi Greg,

I am sure Larry will answer this question better than I can, but basically the Weber side burners,( and Roti burners on the later models), Genesis 1000-5500 series, Series One Summits (contemporary with your Vielux), Series Two Summits (Silver, Gold, Platinum) and the current series Summits all seem to have continuously variable valves, and just changing the orifices seems to work.

I have been lucky in having access to a senior Gas plumber ( he was responsible for a statewide conversion program for all types of gas devices).

As Larry has pointed out it is essential to have a NG regulator for each NG device. I had purchased a new bayonet feed lead, tried to buy one with a regulator, but the local gas shop told me I did not need it and could just rely on the regulator at the meter.

My Gas man spotted this, and promptly went to the gas store and very strongly told them that the advice they had given me was wrong, and possibly dangerous.

As Larry has pointed out orifice size is a combination of Gas type, feed pressure and BTU rating of each burner.
 
Greg, yes you have CV valves there. So no need to change or modify them. As Bruce pointed out some locales require a regulator at any gas appliance (apparently not so here) as I see many NG grills sold without a regulator on them. Or perhaps it's only dependent on whether or not it's an indoor or outdoor appliance. As example when I set up my sister and BIL'S new Genesis a few years back I looked high and low for a regulator and none was found.
So basically once you figure out if you want to use a regulator between the gas source and the grill then find the BTU rating for each burner and we can figure out what size your orifices need to be. I used a regulator I mounted right at my gas outlet (rather than on the grill) and I decided on a regulator simply because of where in the system my gas was tapped to run out there (furthest end of the run after all heavy draw appliances i.e. furnace, tankless water heater and gas range) so I just figured it (that final gas outlet) would see the most fluctuation in pressure so I just figured it would be better to run the grill at lower pressure and allow the regulator to keep it constant.
However if you run a dedicated line or don't have the huge draw ahead of it (I have a 125k BTU and 200K BTU furnace and water heater respectively) ahead of my tap. And with a manometer on the line I noticed a pretty good fluctuation as these appliances would turn on/off with pressures ranging from 5" to 7" depending on the draw
 
I definitely will use a regulator, just as the original Vieluxe NG units did. The last consideration for me is the flexibility of the control valves. As I understand it, the orifice is the top end limiter for the burner. The control valve is a variable orifice that can undercut the real orifice, allowing for lower BTUs. It appears that the orifice for NG at 7" needs to be 1.4 times the diameter of the LP at 11", or twice the area of opening. At 3.5", the diameter is up to 1.65 times the LP, and the opening area is 2.7 times as large. So how large of a difference can the control valve handle? Can it go low enough to have a very low flame on LP, and still open wide enough to max out the orifice on NG? If so, it would seem that the top would be reached on LP long before the valve is wide open, so that it can open further to max out on NG. Based on this concern, does it make sense to regulate the NG at the highest safe pressure - say 5" to 6"? Would love to get all of your thoughts. Much thanks for what has been provided so far - its given me the confidence that this WILL work.
 
You're making my head spin Greg. Definitely over thinking it. Just get a regulator that can handle the entire gas flow of that grill. I think that would be about 100k BTU if you had the grill going full bore and side burners going. Mount the regulator either on the grill or for convenience simply mount it on the gas outlet as I did. Use this http://andersonforrester.com/conversion-chart/ as a reference. You'll need to know how many BTU each burner requires and set each orifice at or to the next lowest (round down unless you're on the braver side round up) but in my experience when doing your own drilling due to the variances of a regular twist bit and possible chuck run out it's better to round down. Install them and grill away. Many valves with the variable orifice also have a screw in the center of the stem that can be used to adjust the flame at low setting. I never found it necessary to even look for one on the Weber grills I have converted but I have on others.
 
Larry, thanks for all your advice. I will move on to obsessing over cleaning and restoring the metal and finding burners and flavorizer bars :)
 
Are the burners and bars bad? Hope you can find something for them since Weber quit making that product a long time ago and it was such a scarce product may be hard to find parts as aftermarket. However it would not surprise me if there is some commonality to the Summit 400 and 600 series of that (late 90's to early 2000's) generation. From what I recall the Vielux was an upgraded version of those Summit grills
 
I will try RCPlanebuyer. And Larry nailed it - they appear to be the 21 inch burners from the Summit 400/600s, not the 20.625 inch ones from the recent Summits. The cross tube is shorter on the Vieluxe, but I think a hacksaw would make the Summit ones into an OK substitute. I think, in a pinch, the slightly shorter burners from the recent Summits could be pressed into use. The burners are not that bad, but I would want to be able to repair the grill in the future, if I build it in.

Next up is understanding the ignition. It is the spring loaded button on top of an AA battery connected to a black box that sends a spark to 4 (?) ignitors. Time for some googling.

Thanks to Larry and everyone else for the help. I will try to post some starting pics this weekend, if I get time to work on the grill.
 
I think I can speak for a lot of people here:

Pictures would be GREAT!

And yes, if I were in your situation, I would definitely get a set of backup burner tubes. I have a genesis 2000 and have two sets of burners and flavorizers for it. I'm happy that way, so one set is in and the other set gets cleaned.

Best of luck, pictures will electrify this crowd for sure!
 
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