No bark/crust on ribs. What went wrong?


 
A

Albert E

New member
Hi!
I finally recieved my wsm and got around to smooking. (was hit by the back-order problem earlier this summmer)
Did my first racks of baby backs last weekend. But was not happy with the end result. There was no bark/crust on the ribs and they were a bit dry and not so tender. I've had much better result on my POS COS...

So what did I do wrong?

6 racks of baby backs on the top grate.
About 4 hours of cooking time.
Adams rib rub
Sweet baby rays honey chipotle

Differences from cooking on the COS:
Ribs had been frozen.
weber roast/rib holder
Water in the pan.
Temp steady at 225. instead of. fluctuating at 250.
No texas crutch (but that should have improved the bark?)
only 10 ounces of wood.

I'm probably going to try a couple of St louis cut racks this weekend. How do I improve my result?
 
Hey Albert,

As far as the ribs being dry, how long had the ribs been frozen? My wife loves a bargin and would stock up on BB when they were on sale and put them in our stand up freezer. I noticed that the last few slabs that had been in the deep freeze for several months were dry (even though they were in the factory sealed cryovac). Just did a few "fresh" from the store racks this weekend and it convinced me that the fresher the better. No more long storage in the freezer.

I also belive that 225 is too low for BB ribs. They take longer to cook at this temp and dry out. I prefer 275 and cook for 2 hours, foil for 1 hour and unfoiled for as long as they need, usually about 45 minutes.

The other factor would be how much rub did you put on?
 
SIX on one rack?? If you got that many on one rack, I would guess they were way overcooked. Really small/thin for that many.

I'm lucky to get three (coiled) on one rack. Those are 2 1/2 - 3 lb each.

I do them 225-275 for about 4 to 4 1/2 hr then put them in a covered roaster wrapped in a blanket (instead of foiling).

Quick and dirty answer: overcooked IMO.

As far as no bark, well I only use mustard and BRITU (a rub found on this site). Always get bark.

QUICK AND DIRTY: were the racks touching each other? Six on one grate tells me they had to have been touching..

Touching means NO bark in those places.
 
If I read your post correctly , you had the ribs in a rib rack contraption to get them all on one rack of the WSM?
It's hard to say why they came out tough and dry with any certainty but since they were frozen that could have contributed and other than that they might have been done in 3 hours.....or maybe even 2 and a half if they were thin racks.....(pictures would help here.)
ribs are tricky , I find. Sometimes they cook up quick and other times they can take forever. In my experience cooking time is the least reliable test of done-ness. The bend test and the probe test are the most reliable.
As far as the bark thing , I have no clue.
I hope your next ribs come out better , but I wouldn't give up on the WSM.
 
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@ Andy in MA
They had been in the freezer since last week of May. (I know, but I did not get my WSM when planned) I used roughly half a bag of Adams rib rub, so maybe 4 oz in total. Have been suspecting that I used too little rub. I used a sifter when applying so they did get coated all over though...

@ Len Dennis
No touching. I used the Weber roast/rib holder. Maybe the rib holder crams them together, too tight? I think they were around 2 lbs each. It´s the large WSM (22.5"), so no need for coiling. When I checked properly at the 3h mark they looked undercooked and did not pass the "bend test".

@FrankH
Unfortunately I don't think I can blame the smoker... So I'll have to blame the cook. I'll try again this Sunday. :wsm:
 
Bark comes from the rub. I apply mustard on my ribs and then apply a generous coating of rubs. While foiling may make the bark a bit softer, you still get bark. I also use a full water pan when doing ribs and don't have any problems. I'd crank the rub application up to 11 and see what happens. :)
 
4oz of rub actually sounds like a lot. IMO, you should still be able to easily see the meat underneath the rub, if you can't you used too much rub. If they weren't tender you probably didn't cook them long enough. At the same time by using a rib rack all the natural juices run off and could leave your ribs a little drier than they should be. I'd try spares with a moderate amount of fat on them, they will come out juicer than BBs. Foiling will make them tender but also soften the crust, adjust your timing and allow for the bark to firm back up. There are lots of ways to tell when the ribs are done, bend test, toothpick through the meat, bones exposed from the sides. I personally like to use a toothpick and check for tenderness. I also agree with smoking them at a higher temp.. 250-275*. Good luck!
 
Tough and dry means you didn't cook them long enough. As the fat that is attached to the muscle fibres breaks down your meat becomes moister and more tender. Never had a problem with cryovaced meet drying out even after 6 months, I don't think I've ever had any go longer than that in my freezer. Up here BB are king so that's almost all we get, never had a problem getting them moist and tender and I never foil. I've cooked them in the 180-190 range for 8-9 hrs all the way to the 325-350 range for 3-4 hrs and never had a moisture or tenderness problem unless I didn't pull them when I should have.
 
Hi Albert,

4 hours at 225 without foiling and no or little bark and meat was dry and did not pass the bend test.... Under cooked.

Many cooks who do foil use what is called the 3-2-1 method or a variation of it. Let's call each time period a phase. Each phase ends in a definable goal and is the key to moving to the next phase. Because those goals may or may be reached in exactly the time given in the method name, it's up to the pitmaster to vary that time in order to reach that goal. Hence you will find variations such as 3-2 1/2-0.75. There needs to be an understanding of what each phase goal is.

The 3 phase is where the ribs are cooked unfoiled with a goal of proper bark formation and color. As Andy has noted, he runs at 275 which seems to render fat better than lower temperatures. During the later portion of this phase the mallard reaction takes place. The mallard reaction is the foundation of why and how bark is formed. Since this phase's goal is proper bark formation and bark color, it is up to the pitmaster to determine when this goal has been reached. One of the best methods used in determining proper bark formation is the fingernail scrape test. Run your fingernail over the bark. If it scrapes off, then the bark has not properly formed and will need to continue cooking and test again. You are also looking for a good color on the ribs. For the pitmasters using chili powder and/or paprika in their rub, a mahogany color at this phase is most desirable. How long will this 3 hour phase last is strictly determined by when the pitmaster feels this phase's goal has been reached.

The 2 phase is the foiling phase where the ribs continue cooking in a braising environment with a goal of tender. When foiling the ribs, you will want to add a little braising liquid. This is strictly up to the pitmaster in what he or she want to achieve flavor wise. Some pitmasters add sugars and additional flavor ingredients at this phase. When wrapping the foil, it is critical that a very tight, sealed wrap be made. All moisture is to captured within the foiled package and not allowed to leak outside the package. During this phase, the braising action will further cooking the meat but in a steam rich environment. As this phase progresses, it will be up to the pitmaster to determine when the goal of tender has been reached. Some pitmasters use a phase goal just short of fully tender so that during the final cooking phase, the 1 phase, tenderness has been reached. The 2 phase is most critical and the most adjusted phase of the 3 phases. It is all too easy to reach FOB, Fall Off the Bone, during this stage. You, the pitmaster, will determine when to proceed.

The 1 phase is the unwrapped phase where the bark, that has been steamed during the 2 phase, is allowed to tighten up. The goal for this phase is multifaceted since it is determined when final tenderness is reached, when final color has been reached, and when any sauce that has been added during this phase has set. This phase, like the others, can and frequently does vary time wise. Again, it is the pitmaster that determines when it is time.

I apologize for the above novel sized post.

Wishing you, the pitmaster, excellence in BBQ.
 
I do mine 3-2-1/2 ,not barked ,smoke ringed and fall off the bone. Maybe 3-2-1 1/2 to bark them (firm)
 
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Thanks for all your input!

Nice breakdown of the 3-2-1. Last time, was the first time I did not do that...

So we have a "winner" they were under cooked. Now that I think about, I did not see any shrinkage either.

Anyhow I have the spareribs on the smoker at 250 deg. St Louis cut on the rib holder, and rib tips on the sides. This time I will foil with a little bit of apple juice, as I've done before. Can't remember if I usually foil for the full two hours, or if I pull early... I like when they pull clean off the bone, but not falling off.
 
Bob Bass said:
Hi Albert,
.

Many cooks who do foil use what is called the 3-2-1 method or a variation of it. Let's call each time period a phase. Each phase ends in a definable goal and is the key to moving to the next phase. Because those goals may or may be reached in exactly the time given in the method name, it's up to the pitmaster to vary that time in order to reach that goal. Hence you will find variations such as 3-2 1/2-0.75. There needs to be an understanding of what each phase goal is.

The 3 phase is where the ribs are cooked unfoiled with a goal of proper bark formation and color. As Andy has noted, he runs at 275 which seems to render fat better than lower temperatures. During the later portion of this phase the mallard reaction takes place. The mallard reaction is the foundation of why and how bark is formed. Since this phase's goal is proper bark formation and bark color, it is up to the pitmaster to determine when this goal has been reached. One of the best methods used in determining proper bark formation is the fingernail scrape test. Run your fingernail over the bark. If it scrapes off, then the bark has not properly formed and will need to continue cooking and test again. You are also looking for a good color on the ribs. For the pitmasters using chili powder and/or paprika in their rub, a mahogany color at this phase is most desirable. How long will this 3 hour phase last is strictly determined by when the pitmaster feels this phase's goal has been reached.

The 2 phase is the foiling phase where the ribs continue cooking in a braising environment with a goal of tender. When foiling the ribs, you will want to add a little braising liquid. This is strictly up to the pitmaster in what he or she want to achieve flavor wise. Some pitmasters add sugars and additional flavor ingredients at this phase. When wrapping the foil, it is critical that a very tight, sealed wrap be made. All moisture is to captured within the foiled package and not allowed to leak outside the package. During this phase, the braising action will further cooking the meat but in a steam rich environment. As this phase progresses, it will be up to the pitmaster to determine when the goal of tender has been reached. Some pitmasters use a phase goal just short of fully tender so that during the final cooking phase, the 1 phase, tenderness has been reached. The 2 phase is most critical and the most adjusted phase of the 3 phases. It is all too easy to reach FOB, Fall Off the Bone, during this stage. You, the pitmaster, will determine when to proceed.

The 1 phase is the unwrapped phase where the bark, that has been steamed during the 2 phase, is allowed to tighten up. The goal for this phase is multifaceted since it is determined when final tenderness is reached, when final color has been reached, and when any sauce that has been added during this phase has set. This phase, like the others, can and frequently does vary time wise. Again, it is the pitmaster that determines when it is time.

I apologize for the above novel sized post.

Wishing you, the pitmaster, excellence in BBQ.
Click to expand...

i will suggest to the moderator that this should be a "sticky" under the 3-2-1 method this is the best breakdown of the method that I have seen. If it was a novel , bob , it was a page turner!
 
I thought bark was formed through the carmalzation of the sugar in the rub, not via the mallard reaction? Also, one of the main goals of the initial phase is not just bark, but actual smoke flavoring of the meat, no?

Update: Just read Meatheads explaniation of Bark, and nope. It's not carmalization of the sugars. For those that want to read more check this out...


http://www.amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/bark.html
 
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Epic fail!:(

Got a huge temp spike when I foiled after 3 hours. about 290 deg... I shut all the bottom vents, no effect. I repositioned the temp probe just under the grate just case the foil package was leaking to much steam. Didn't help. I took the lid off to remove the excess heat but it shot up right back to 290! I even checked with second thermometer.

So when I removed the foil after only one hour. They were already, not just done, but way overcooked...:mad:

I don't get it!? I never failed this miserably, before I got the WSM. So far I've managed to undercook bb's on four hours, and overcook spareibs on four hours. What's next...
 
Hi Albert,

I wonder if there are multiple smaller issues that are combining to create a major issue. Would like to examine some of the possible smaller issues in hopes of changing your cooks to more enjoyable cooks.

You indicated you were cooking at 250. Where was your pit temperature probe located before you repositioned it ? ( If the probe was located too close to the meat, you will get an artificial (lower) reading than you are actually cooking at. )

After a cook, if you close all vents, how long do the coals remain lit ?

Did you use a full charcoal basket and the minion method or did you do something else ?

When did you first start checking the ribs during that 3 hour phase ?

A quick note... when opening the lid, you are actually adding additional air for combustion, so the temperatures will rise, not lower.


Bob
 
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And speaking of adding air when you take the lid off , I have learned that when I am foiling ribs , I need to get the meat off and get the lid back on in as short a time as possible. No standing around wondering where I put my oven mitts with the lid off! I also usually close the bottom vents almost all the way just before I take the lid off....then once I get the smoker covered again I leave them like that for a bit. And if you do get a big temp spike don't be afraid to even half close the top vent for a little while to damp down the fire a bit.
Im also curious what you were using for a heat sink....water in the pan? Sand?
anyway , don't give up . You will master that cooker.
 
Albert E said:
Epic fail!:(

Got a huge temp spike when I foiled after 3 hours. about 290 deg... I shut all the bottom vents, no effect. I repositioned the temp probe just under the grate just case the foil package was leaking to much steam. Didn't help. I took the lid off to remove the excess heat but it shot up right back to 290! I even checked with second thermometer.

So when I removed the foil after only one hour. They were already, not just done, but way overcooked...:mad:

I don't get it!? I never failed this miserably, before I got the WSM. So far I've managed to undercook bb's on four hours, and overcook spareibs on four hours. What's next...
Click to expand...

you must not have had water in the water pan? if you didnt stick with the water intil you get more experience with the wsm. it eases the spikes in temp.
 
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