New 2009 WSM - Built in thermometer is so "wrong"

[Chris Brines]

Originally posted by j biesinger:
my 2 cents:

its tough to get an accurate cooking temp in the wsm, as air will be hotter on the outside than in the center, and it will vary slightly from bottom to top.

with that said, it doesn't make sense for weber to charge you for a better therm that won't be more accurate (just different).

people use to kill brinkman for putting a therm in the ecb that read: "hot, ideal, cold" rather than actual degrees. So weber put degrees on their therms and people are still grouchy.

I was once there with you all too, at that point when the wsm was new and things weren't going right, trying to follow time and temps. I had wires all over my wsm trying to figure out actual temps. The first eureka came when I realized temps aren't always what they seem, but the second and big one came when I stopped caring about the actual temp.

Be patient friends, good bbq comes from trial and error not by following time and temps. Keep cooking and know that eventually a $5 therm stuck in your vent damper will be all you need.

I'll have to agree here. My WSM loves to coast ~260. I used to fight and fight with it, to get it to run around the 240's. After a year or so, I realized that it didn't make much difference and just let the cooker go.

That being said, it is nice to know what temp your cooker is cooking at. Especially, when you're doing a high heater.


I still contend that the Weber therm's stem is too short. I haven't tested my 4" Tel-Tru in a long time, but, I'd bet it's still spot-on with the top grate.

 

[Darrell O]

I've had my 2009 WSM for almost a year now and I consistently have the same problem-the WSM thermometer reads 30-40 degrees lower than the grill grate. Every month or so I test the thermometer with boiling water and it reads 205. I played around with my thermoworks thermometer in the top vent hole during my last cook and tried to position the probe at the same depth as the WSM thermometer. I was still getting a temperature difference of 30 degrees. It is a mystery. Does tel-tru make a retrofit for the 2009 thermometer?

 

[j biesinger]

I'll have to agree here. My WSM loves to coast ~260. I used to fight and fight with it, to get it to run around the 240's. After a year or so, I realized that it didn't make much difference and just let the cooker go.

exactly!

 

[Jay D.]

I agree with j biesinger. Every wsm is different and once you learn where your temp typically sets, just let it go.

 

[R. Hanson ("Rondo")]

Hey Darrell ......you're measuring the temps in different locations under different conditions.... the temperatures indicate differently because they are different..... not wrong, just different

..and it just doesn't matter much...

 

[euge.lee]

The main point of my thread was to show (mostly newbies like me) that when learning about our new 2009 WSMs... and following directions for something like BRITU... that if we try to get the WSM lid temp to the suggested temp in the recipe... that it would be off... by more than the acceptable "range" of temperatures most would feel comfortable with.

I understand there's no "perfect" smoking temp... but when you're new to bbq, you try to follow directions. I just wanted people to know that when you look at a recipe for BRITU and it says "Cook ribs at 225°F for 3 hours, turn slabs, then increase cooker temp to 250-275°F and cook an additional 1-2 hours until done."... that if you try to get those ideal temp readings on your WSM lid, you'll more than likely be at 260F for three hours and then 320F+ for 1-2 hours instead.

 

[Eric W]

This is why I went with a thermometer in the vent hole. The WSM doesn't cook with radiant heat, it cooks with hot air. It just made sense to me to put the thermometer in the airflow for the most useful readings, putting a thermometer in the lid on the opposite side from the vent never seemed quite right to me.

 

[eric pleus]

Even with the differances in temps I have yet to read even one post on this site of any meal smoked on a WSM that came out less than great. These really are amazing smokers!

 

[j biesinger]

The main point of my thread was to show (mostly newbies like me) that when learning about our new 2009 WSMs... and following directions for something like BRITU... that if we try to get the WSM lid temp to the suggested temp in the recipe... that it would be off... by more than the acceptable "range" of temperatures most would feel comfortable with.

I understand there's no "perfect" smoking temp... but when you're new to bbq, you try to follow directions. I just wanted people to know that when you look at a recipe for BRITU and it says "Cook ribs at 225°F for 3 hours, turn slabs, then increase cooker temp to 250-275°F and cook an additional 1-2 hours until done."... that if you try to get those ideal temp readings on your WSM lid, you'll more than likely be at 260F for three hours and then 320F+ for 1-2 hours instead.

and my point was there is no easy fix. a better therm, more therms, etc will get you only part way home. you still need skills that only come from trial and error.

Just cook, try different temps and times and look, smell, taste, feel for proper doneness. I know its not what you want to hear, I know I didn't want that to be the case a few years back with my first wsm, but it took me about a year of crummy bbq before I learned to trust the wsm and my instincts.

Its a great cooker, once you stop worrying about how off the therm is.

 

[R. Hanson ("Rondo")]

Great discussion, IMO, guys! Many good points and observations

i.e., Technology can and does compete with simplicity, ... this seems to be the case here. As euge.lee said, the recipe uses suggested WSM lid temps ... keeping it simple. Wireless thermometers allow us to use temps from other places, but perhaps that just "muddies the water" ... I also agree with eric pleus ... the food is great and the WSM is an amazing cooker

 

[eric pleus]

J Biesinger are you saying you had a whole year of "crummy BBQ" on a WSM. It must have been before you found this site as there is just so much great info on here. When I used to smoke on my OTG sometimes pork butts wouldn't be quiet done at 13 hours so I would finish in them in the oven for an hour. Thats the closest to a problem I have ever had on any Weber. I believe the origanal poster started this thread to explain how he is trying to learn how his new WSM cooks and share some of that info along the way. You keep telling him he needs to learn his smoker and thats exactly what he is trying to do. I think he has given great info that will help shorten the learning curve myself and others. Thanks euge.lee and others for the valuable info.

 

[dwayne e]

Before I got the WSM, I grilled/smoked by sight/smell/feel and I learned a lot through trial and error.

I use the probes and the lid therm as tools; I will still rely on my own personal experience and feel to determine if I'm cooking/smoking something at the correct temp/timing.

The other day I was cooking chickens and I was cooking at about 275 (lid temp). I wasn't concerned about low and slow and relied on the internal probe to get me to where I wanted to be.

I always plan to be done cooking well in advance of the "eating time". That way, if weather/wind is effecting the performance of my grill/BBQ, I have time to adjust without rushing anything.

Based on a couple of cooks, I'm confident that the actual temp of the cooker is probably 20-30 degrees cooler than the lid temp is reading. I'll experiment some more, and hope to get to the "set it and forget it" zone soon.

No worries.......just good food, lazin' around, smokin' cigars.

 

[euge.lee]

Originally posted by j biesinger:

and my point was there is no easy fix. a better therm, more therms, etc will get you only part way home. you still need skills that only come from trial and error.

Just cook, try different temps and times and look, smell, taste, feel for proper doneness. I know its not what you want to hear, I know I didn't want that to be the case a few years back with my first wsm, but it took me about a year of crummy bbq before I learned to trust the wsm and my instincts.

Its a great cooker, once you stop worrying about how off the therm is.

I know it's a great cooker, but I think you're forgetting how it was to be a newbie and how you want to make sure you're "doing it right" (as prescribed by the recipe).

And I disagree that there isn't an easy fix... because there is an easy fix. Stick a probe through the vent and measure how "others" measure.

If a recipe by "Bob" suggests a 235F temp as measured by a probe thermometer through the vent damper, then that is the best starting place to begin the cook for a newb... then from there, trial and error comes into play to bbq to your liking.

For example, our home oven always burned stuff... we thought it was a bad oven. After inserting an oven thermometer, we found that 400F on the dial was actually 540F in the oven! I didn't tell my wife to just cook at 540F and "just cook, try different temps and times and look, smell, taste, feel for proper doneness."? How about a more scientific approach? Log dial temps and actual oven temps and write them on a piece of paper for her so she now knows that 250F on the dial is actually 360F, and that 400F is 540F.

When I first posted about temps being off on this forum... I was told I most likely had "damp charcoal" or "bad charcoal" or that WSMs have a break-in period. This was not the case. I have found out why I was unable to get temps similar to the recipes instructions... because of the much lower readings from the WSM lid temps. To get the recommended 250-275F temps for the latter part of the BRITU recipe I had to prop open an inverted door. Turns out that was unnecessary because I was actually at 320F or higher according to "recipe" temps.

Before I "just cook, try different temps and times and look, smell, taste, feel for proper doneness"... I want to follow the intended recipe first as properly as possible... then go from there. I admittedly have little skills since I'm new to smokin' bbq... but I'm learning and I'd rather learn from a good foundational starting point than "blindly" learning with relatively expensive cuts of meat.

That said, I absolutely appreciate your responses in this thread (along with everyone elses)... love this site! Thank you!

 

[Dave Russell]

Originally posted by Eric W:
This is why I went with a thermometer in the vent hole. The WSM doesn't cook with radiant heat, it cooks with hot air. It just made sense to me to put the thermometer in the airflow for the most useful readings, putting a thermometer in the lid on the opposite side from the vent never seemed quite right to me.

Right on, and it works for me as well. Not only is my factory gauge off by 30 or more degrees, but it seems to be affected more by the meat placement/temperature than measuring in the vent.

 

[R. Hanson ("Rondo")]

FWIW, For 18yrs, from 1981-2009, the WSM was manufactured with no thermometer at all. The WSM got rave reviews as a stable, set-it & forget it, simple cooker that produces great BBQ. This was accomplished by simply using known vent settings....get the coals going, set the bottom vents 25-35% open, top vent 100% open, have a beer

Some still cook that way,.. many later installed lid therms as a reference. As a result, most "recipes" have originated using an installed lid thermometer and good ol' timing as the base reference, with doneness checks being the final arbitar

Conclusion: We might be over-thinking this a little; seeking precision where none exists...but each should operate as they see fit.. again, FWIW

 

[Jim Quinn]

Originally posted by ron "Rondo" hanson:
FWIW, For 18yrs, from 1981-2009, the WSM was manufactured with no thermometer at all. The WSM got rave reviews as a stable, set-it & forget it, simple cooker that produces great BBQ. This was accomplished by simply using known vent settings....get the coals going, set the bottom vents 25-35% open, top vent 100% open, have a beer

Some still cook that way,..

well put Rondo,

 

[Bob Correll]

"A person with one thermometer knows what the temperature is, a person with two thermometers is never sure."

Please read that as intended, in good humor

 

[Alexander]

I also agree that this is a great discussion. When I first heard about the difference, I purchased the maverick 73. It has a probe for the meat and one for the smoker temp. It is awesome! I can stick the smoker probe through the top vent or use the grate clip provided.
Interestingly, the Weber lid temp was reading 25-30 degrees LESS than the Maverick smoker probe. This occurred whether i placed it through the top vent of used the grate clip. I spent hours moving it around and away from the outer area of the grate and the fluctuation continued.
I am also very new at this and respect and tip my hat to the pros out there.
I can tell you that as long as the temps hover between 225 and 250, I am happy. If this means that the lid is at 220 and the Maverick is at 250, I will not be too concerned since I will be testing for doneness when it gets closer to the end times. I also plan my cooks in case that I need to keep it in there a bit longer. I always thought that the whole BBQ experience is kicking back and having a good time with friends and of course a beer or three.
Since I invested in the Maverick, I will always set my temps so they are anywhere between 225-250 knowing that the lid will be reading 225 and the Mav. 250. This should ensure that I am not under or overcooking. I will also pay great attention to the bottom vents.
Note: When I made the BRITU, I only had the Weber lid temp. and I followed the instructions keeping it at the temps suggested. The results were outstanding and that was my first time ever smoking ribs! The WSM will never let you down in my opinion which is all that I am stating. I can tell you that for the brisket I used the Mav. meat probe and watched that baby cook low and slow at low temps 225-255. It was outstanding!!
Check out the pics!

 

[dwayne e]

thanks a lot.......now I gotta go buy some ribs!!

that is an excellent point, I would rely on my meat probe more than anything else, if you're reasonably sure your cooker is somewhere in the ballpark. I'm sure my Maverick is dead-on......I have a couple of old standard, non-digital probes and they're all within a couple of degrees.

 

[Alexander]

Yep! That's what i aim for. I'm going to try to do a butt this weekend. I will let you all know what happens. I still monitor both temps (lid and Maverick probe) but I will certainly go by the internal temp. Hey do those ribs look good or what?? LOL I gotta be proud, they were my first!