Measuring Weber Gas Grill Parts Thickness: A move from anecdotal speculation to factual investigation

[Jon Tofte]

We (self included) frequently lament the thinner, cheaper materials we believe Weber has been moving towards as they have rolled out new versions of the Genesis over the years. Admittedly, this is based entirely on casual observations and a certain amount of bias. It is time to move to a more factual investigation.

A while back, I purchased a caliper with longer extension points making it possible to get measurements of the thickness of fireboxes, hood sides, and, where applicable, stainless tables. I have parts from most of the historical progression of Weber Genesis grills, and my friendly Ace took it in stride when "Jon the Grill Guy" brought his caliper inside to examine a new "Tech" Genesis on their sales floor. They did not have any Genesis II grills left, and I don't have any.

First, I have to make some important observations:

• I did these measurements as honestly as I could, but I did not invest a substantial amount of time. My accuracy would probably have been better had I more time to spend. Also, I don't think variations of .1mm are meaningful as they are probably within my caliper's error threshold.
• Most of the grills I measured had variations, sometimes as much as .3mm, as I tested along one section. There were also some larger differences between the sides vs. the front and back of most of the fireboxes I looked at.
• The older grills I looked at included some very old parts that have been out in the elements for some time. I am not sure how their long-term use and storage affected my measurements compared to the brand new "Tech" Genesis. I also looked at a couple parts that have been sand blasted. That could conceivably reduce the parts thickness.

Here is a chart I came up with:



In general, I would say that these results indicate that there has been a reduction in the thickness of a number of components. These findings do confirm that my personal observations that the newest Genesis has very thin stainless shelves and firebox are not without basis. On the other hand, the differences I came up with do not support that the firebox is as thin as it seemed to me when just looking at it in isolation.

As a wild card, I threw in the measurements of a Broilmaster grill I have in my pile of unfinished projects. Perhaps not at all surprising, Broilmaster takes the prize for overall thickest cast aluminum. I don't know that I have ever seen or heard of a Broilmaster that had burn-through. On the other extreme, not listed in my schedule, a Spirit II I also looked at on my Ace store's sales floor turned in the thinnest results for firebox and end caps and basically tied the "Tech" Genesis for the thinnest "stainless" side tables.

Lastly, I included the 1st generation Summit that I am struggling to push over the finish line. The results for it do confirm a very solid build to go along with the substantial amount of real 304 stainless used for many parts. With a reinforced firebox, these are just wonderful grills. I hope to update the thread on that restoration soon. It's a race to get it done before tax season hits full speed.

I don't consider this quick study to be a final statement. More work is needed. Also, if anyone has a Genesis II and a caliper that can measure these components, I am sure we would be interested in what you come up with.

 

[Michael Chen]

Thank you for doing this. Very curious to see what people come up with.

When putting together our latest Genesis (brand new one from summer 2022), the stainless shelves – despite being larger – felt notably lighter than those from our 300 front controls model from 2011.

Unfortunately, I cannot presently put them side by side because the 2022 Genesis lives on a condo balcony in Cupertino.

My cousin has a Genesis II, but I need to locate our missing calipers and convince my cousin to let me poke around his grill with them….

 

[Bruce]

Thanks Jon.

 

[A Lee]

I've been cleaning up my new 2008 Gen 2 Performer and I'm amazed Weber used 304SS on the burner tube, front panel, and also on the screws that hold the table and kettle to the frame. The current gen Performer Deluxe still uses a very similar design, but I can see the front panel and top screws are no longer stainless. I'm curious whether the burner tube has also been switched to 400 series stainless to save costs.

 

[Ed P]

I tried my best not to come to Weber's defense on this. In terms of today's dollars, an $800 Genesis in 1998 would sell for $1464 today. Put that alongside a flood of $500 Chinesium grills and who will buy it?

Basically, the older grills were made better and the new models are made more cheaply. That comparison doesn't bode well for today's financially troubled Weber. I hope they survive.

 

[Steve Hoch]

I tried my best not to come to Weber's defense on this. In terms of today's dollars, an $800 Genesis in 1998 would sell for $1464 today. Put that alongside a flood of $500 Chinesium grills and who will buy it?

Basically, the older grills were made better and the new models are made more cheaply. That comparison doesn't bode well for today's financially troubled Weber. I hope they survive.

Point well taken Ed. However, a Genesis grill didn't cost $800 back in '98. They were in the $500 range, and while not cheap they still managed to sell an awful lot of them compared to the competition of the day due to their obvious quality advantage. Fast forward to today when there doesn't seem to be that apparent quality gap and Weber may have a problem moving forward.

 

[Ed P]

Point well taken Ed. However, a Genesis grill didn't cost $800 back in '98. They were in the $500 range, and while not cheap they still managed to sell an awful lot of them compared to the competition of the day due to their obvious quality advantage. Fast forward to today when there doesn't seem to be that apparent quality gap and Weber may have a problem moving forward.

Taken a bit further, there are essentially 3 options for somebody in the market for a grill these days...a new Weber, a new other-brand, and a rehabbed grill. I include rehabbing one yourself DIY in the rehabbed category..

$500 in 1998 would be $914 today, about twice as much as an other-brand or rehabbed grill. It's hard to compete without cutting costs somewhere is all I'm saying, and I hate it when yet another American manufacturer goes under.

EDIT: Maybe Weber made a fatal mistake by making such a high quality and highly sought after grill back in the day. Who knew then that that would be the standard of measure decades later?

 

[Steve Hoch]

I would gladly pay $900 for a Weber grill that I knew would last for twenty years. I don't really want to screw around with these old grills if I didn't feel like I needed to and no American company should feel bad about making high quality products that last a lifetime. I would still buy another one just because it would be nice to have a new one, but not these overpriced, made overseas junks.

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

Taken a bit further, there are essentially 3 options for somebody in the market for a grill these days...a new Weber, a new other-brand, and a rehabbed grill. I include rehabbing one yourself DIY in the rehabbed category..

$500 in 1998 would be $914 today, about twice as much as an other-brand or rehabbed grill. It's hard to compete without cutting costs somewhere is all I'm saying, and I hate it when yet another American manufacturer goes under.

EDIT: Maybe Weber made a fatal mistake by making such a high quality and highly sought after grill back in the day. Who knew then that that would be the standard of measure decades later?

True.....However, there are and were better made grills than Weber. Broilmaster is one but not a mass market, big box product like Weber and certainly not a similar price point range as Weber. Pretty much just expensive and more expensive as compared to Weber making something for everyone including a wide range of charcoal grills and accessories.

 

[Dave in KC]

I would gladly pay $900 for a Weber grill that I knew would last for twenty years. I don't really want to screw around with these old grills if I didn't feel like I needed to and no American company should feel bad about making high quality products that last a lifetime. I would still buy another one just because it would be nice to have a new one, but not these overpriced, made overseas junks.

Always store it indoors when not in use and you may have a shot.

 

[Ed P]

I would gladly pay $900 for a Weber grill that I knew would last for twenty years. I don't really want to screw around with these old grills if I didn't feel like I needed to and no American company should feel bad about making high quality products that last a lifetime. I would still buy another one just because it would be nice to have a new one, but not these overpriced, made overseas junks.

Did you know in 1998 that your grill would last for 20+ years? The vintage Webers have withstood the test of time, and you are looking back in retrospect. And is it in the best interests of a company to make (and support) a grill that lasts a lifetime? Where are future sales to come from? Replacement parts? Show me anyone that chooses genuine Weber replacement parts in lieu of a lower priced alternative.

I suggest that no American manufacturer, that has been in business for as long as Weber has, would willingly produce a product that is generally perceived to be cheaply made and of low quality. I think market forces are such that there are compromises that must be made to remain profitable...unless one thinks that Weber is cashing in and making money hand over fist.

 

[Scott Smith]

I give you a ton of credit for your efforts to quantify this.

 

[LMichaels]

Point well taken Ed. However, a Genesis grill didn't cost $800 back in '98. They were in the $500 range, and while not cheap they still managed to sell an awful lot of them compared to the competition of the day due to their obvious quality advantage. Fast forward to today when there doesn't seem to be that apparent quality gap and Weber may have a problem moving forward.

You could buy a Genesis for even less if you didn't opt for the larger model(s). IIRC the small cart versions were under $400 (at least when I began looking at them). Also in my case I did not buy it for any perceived "quality advantage" I bought one because it was DIFFERENT than every other grill on the market. Even way back then I knew I wanted something different. Heck I don't think the "quality" of my Genesis was any better than the quality of the Sunbeam I had. But even then. Every grill (even multiple burner ones) had the same arrangement all front to back. Only Weber had the unique arrangement of burners running across the grill. Even as a grill novice I KNEW that was different and BETTER than anything else on the market. THAT is why I spent the $$$ for my Genesis 2.
Now? They are simply copies of everything else. They are not anything "new or different" so why buy one? At least this is how I would view it and viewed it back then. I didn't want same ol same ol. I actually did buy a rotisserie kit for my Sunbeam. Love rotisserie. But even then I could see why I wanted a Genesis. NOT because it was a Weber. It could have been ANY brand. I bought it because of the cooking system. Nothing else

 

[Jon Tofte]

Always store it indoors when not in use and you may have a shot

That's definitely the ticket for prolonging a grill's life!

 

[Jon Tofte]

True.....However, there are and were better made grills than Weber. Broilmaster is one but not a mass market, big box product like Weber and certainly not a similar price point range as Weber. Pretty much just expensive and more expensive as compared to Weber making something for everyone including a wide range of charcoal grills and accessories.

I think Broilmaster makes an incredibly durable grill (other than the bow-tie burner). They are also versatile, excellent cookers. Where Weber came in strong was offering a solid grill but one with STYLE as well! That may sound superfluous, but let's face it: part of the joy of owning a nice grill is for it to look cool on your deck! While everyone else was offering matte black boxes on a pole, Weber came out with an entirely new shape and with flashy porcelain colors to boot. (We might wonder about the light brown they originally offered, but back in the mid-80s that was stylish!) Something as simple as the sloping front hood and utilizing their experience with porcelain coating, may sound simple now, but they were innovative. Weber's style along with a solid, quality build gave them the ability to sell at a relatively high price.

I think if Broilmaster had the resources to better market their grills, they would be in a good position to promote the longevity and quality when everyone else (sadly, Weber, too, to some extent) is just pushing cheap flash. Still, to make that work, I think Broilmaster would have to invest in making some style improvements. They already offer an all-stainless grill that uses the same burner and "waterfall" grates. It looks like everyone else's grill. I would like to see them come up with a more stylish cart and try again with some color as they did years ago. Maybe with a big enough marketing budget they could actually get some market share.

 

[Rich Dahl]

On 5/23/99 I purchased a new green 1998 LX1000 at Crown Hardware in Lake Forest Calif. for $479.97 + $38.36 for tax for a total of $518.35. Yes, I still have the original owner's manual and sales receipt. I also still have the grill. As far as durability goes, I have replaced the original porcelain coated grates with cast iron, the favorizer bars with SS ones and the ignitor. After 24 years I would say that's a pretty good durability record and how many other grills can you still get parts for after 24 years.
I like Larry was drawn to the E/W burners as one of my main goals was to have the ability to use a rotisserie. Even today I have two gassers the LX and the E320 both of which are E/W burners.
I hope Weber survives for another 24 years, unfortunately I think the launch of the smokefire really hurt their reputation.

 

[Jay D in Jersey]

I think Broilmaster makes an incredibly durable grill (other than the bow-tie burner). They are also versatile, excellent cookers. Where Weber came in strong was offering a solid grill but one with STYLE as well! That may sound superfluous, but let's face it: part of the joy of owning a nice grill is for it to look cool on your deck! While everyone else was offering matte black boxes on a pole, Weber came out with an entirely new shape and with flashy porcelain colors to boot. (We might wonder about the light brown they originally offered, but back in the mid-80s that was stylish!) Something as simple as the sloping front hood and utilizing their experience with porcelain coating, may sound simple now, but they were innovative. Weber's style along with a solid, quality build gave them the ability to sell at a relatively high price.

I think if Broilmaster had the resources to better market their grills, they would be in a good position to promote the longevity and quality when everyone else (sadly, Weber, too, to some extent) is just pushing cheap flash. Still, to make that work, I think Broilmaster would have to invest in making some style improvements. They already to offer an all-stainless grill that uses the same burner and "waterfall" grates. It looks like everyone else's grill. I would like to see them come up with a more stylish cart and try again with some color as they did years ago. Maybe with a big enough marketing budget they could actually get some market share.

I agree 100%. Broilmaster makes a great grill but every model they've ever produced looks pretty much the same, hasn't changed and none would win any style awards nor be considered a backyard focal point... you can get whatever color you'd like as long as it's black or dark green.
Also, Broilmaster is a division of Empire Comfort Systems which also is a big player in the gas log, wood stove and gas heater/furnace sectors.
Weber has cornered the market on the outdoor cooking market.

 

[Jon Tofte]

You could buy a Genesis for even less if you didn't opt for the larger model(s). IIRC the small cart versions were under $400 (at least when I began looking at them). Also in my case I did not buy it for any perceived "quality advantage" I bought one because it was DIFFERENT than every other grill on the market. Even way back then I knew I wanted something different. Heck I don't think the "quality" of my Genesis was any better than the quality of the Sunbeam I had. But even then. Every grill (even multiple burner ones) had the same arrangement all front to back. Only Weber had the unique arrangement of burners running across the grill. Even as a grill novice I KNEW that was different and BETTER than anything else on the market. THAT is why I spent the $$$ for my Genesis 2.
Now? They are simply copies of everything else. They are not anything "new or different" so why buy one? At least this is how I would view it and viewed it back then. I didn't want same ol same ol. I actually did buy a rotisserie kit for my Sunbeam. Love rotisserie. But even then I could see why I wanted a Genesis. NOT because it was a Weber. It could have been ANY brand. I bought it because of the cooking system. Nothing else

Larry, I have to share your lament about Weber losing more and more differentiation from their competitors. I do, however, think that the first Genesis was a big jump in quality compared to the mainstream of gas grills at that time. Sunbeam was definitely one of those big players when the Genesis was introduced. You probably remember the old Sunbeam "The Judge" that I rehabbed. Not sure what year it was from, but mid-80s isn't a bad guess. At any rate, while I liked the cast aluminum firebox, the rest of the grill was not nearly as well built as the first Genesis, at least in my view. I do think Sunbeam made better grills than the little one I restored, but what I remember of any of those from that time period - that I or friends had - was much less stout frames and, of course, lava rocks on a fast to rust out grate. The cooking grates were mostly piano wire, thin chrome-plated mild steel. I guess I am saying that I think Weber did stand out as a higher quality alternative back in 1986 and for some years to come. I know I always looked at them wistfully as I tried to make do with probably a Charbroil and later a Coleman both built much like Sunbeams.

When we moved back to Florida, I picked up an old Weber redhead trashed on the side of the road after it took a hit from a tree branch in one of our hurricanes. To my wife's great embarrassment, I stopped in our van and loaded up the remains piled there for the taking. Two revelations came from that decision:

Number one was the satisfaction of restoring an old grill. This was a challenge back then with few applicable tools and zero experience. I spent hours in the hot Florida summer patiently sanding and filing the old cast iron grates. Sandpaper and an old file are not the best choices! I had never even used a grinder at that point, and I had no other useful power tools. It was also trial and error replacing parts, although in 2004 you could still get many parts from Weber for x000 Genesis grills. I have learned a lot about grills and tools since then, a major portion of the credit for which goes to you and others here on TVWBB, where so many great ideas, information, and recommendations are shared.

Number two was the joy of grilling on a Weber grill. Even though I have yet to do rotisserie cooking, like you, I quickly saw the benefit of having THREE E-W burners. I don't think any other mainstream grill maker was offering that back then. There was just no comparison between grilling with my old, restored Weber compared with the various 80s/90s big box store grills I had used up until then. I have never looked back, my "The Judge" humor grill notwithstanding.

I still hope that just maybe possible management changes at Weber will bring back at least some of the commitment to genuine quality. But, if not, I am glad there are still plenty of restorable classics from the days George Stephen was at the helm!

 

[LMichaels]

I honestly gotta say that old Sunbeam I had (IIRCC it was the model 850) was every bit as well made as the Genesis I bought in 92. But, I saw that burner arrangement and all I could see was roasts spinning and slabs of ribs cooking

 

[Bruce]

Larry, I have cooked ribs on my Genesis both on the grates and on the roto. The #9891 roto works well for a slab of ribs. In fact, I did my first rib cook with the roto and was amazed at how well they came out. After that, I did several on the grates just because it seemed easier. I did not think that those ribs came out as good as the first roto cook. I thought maybe it was just me, but then I did another cook on the roto and bingo, very tender and juicy ribs that reminded me of that first cook. I think the constant basting from the juices dripping and recoating the ribs as they cook is the key. On the grates, they just drip off and into the cook box even though I flip them several times.

I do not do the wrap method, I cook them in the open straight through so that might account for the dryer than expected ribs. But the roto seems to counter that problem.