I am stumped!!!! Genesis II 310 3 burner ......calling all pro's.....the score so far is grill 1 Jim 0


 
J

JimV

TVWBB All-Star
Hello pro's! Well I have met my match. I am working on a relatively new Gen II 310 3 burner propane gas grill. This grill looks like it has been used about 5 times. I dont know much about the grills backstory so lets just focus on the grill itself. On this forum we mostly know the old stuff inside and out.....but I think someone will understand the issue from previous experience and it will apply here.
So the issue is that the grill will not ignite via the starter but burns perfectly vis a lighter. Now for the process of elimination. Note I have an identical grill sitting right next to it in my shop and I have been swapping parts over one at a time to see if I can find the culprit.
1. Burner number 1 will ignite via the starter but only if the knob is turned towards low while clicking.
2. Burners 2 and 3 wont start at all via the starter
3. The starter clicks fast and furious.....sparks have been adjusted to white hot via probe adjustments.
4. Gas is flowing like a champ and diff regulators have been tried with same results...
5. Again....the burners are like new and burn perfectly via a lighter...no air adjustment needed although I did try already
6. For grins ,,,the starter from the other grill and the regulator and one of the burners and one of the porcelain ignitors were all tried
7. Now here is the best clue I can give you. I have not tried this yet but my friend tried this and said it worked. He said he moved the porcelain ignitor forward on the tube and the grill fired right up...which is in line with it working perfectly via a lighter.
8. The first hole and all of the holes on the burners are clean like new
9. I kind of noticed the burners being a bit tight against the valve body

So all that said....I was going to swap the manifold over from the twin grill just to get a " win " but then I cam across the modern manifold nut that I have never seen before and likely you guys havent wrestled with one either. Its brand new but it will not turn. I assume I need to force it to break it free but I would like clearance on that before I do....I will include a pic of the nut. So currently I cannot remove the manifold......but the set up is the same as a modern Spirit if that helps.....two studs through the front of the cook box attached with these mystery nuts and also two screws from the front frame to the manifold support. Have you guys ever come across a grill that was igniting from a spark that had to be farther down the tube? This seems to be too strong of a gas flow to me but the regulator is OEM and correct and we have tried 3 at this point.

Please let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
 

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JimV said:
Now here is the best clue I can give you. I have not tried this yet but my friend tried this and said it worked. He said he moved the porcelain ignitor forward on the tube and the grill fired right up...which is in line with it working perfectly via a lighter
Click to expand...
This was going to be my suggestion. It seems to me most of the ignition problems on these models end up being related to the placement of each individual igniter.
 
Hmmmmm ....this is the first for me and I have cleaned up and sold many. These are so easy to clean and flip. I love the newer burner style. I guess that since burner number one will light if the knob is on low that the gas is pushing into the burner tube possibly too aggressively thus maybe it blows right past hole number one. The burners burn perfectly so maybe on this one we will just get the spark out to burner hole number two. I mean if getting the spark further out resolves the issue for this grill........ehhhhhhhhhhh it might keep me up at night not having the " correct " fix though......hmmmm woops forgot to post a pick of the cook box nuts that I cant remove....see pic
 

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This cook box nut has me baffled as well........on the other side there is no through bolt.....I guess it is just a stud that goes through the cook box held on by this whacky nut???
 
It is interesting that you have come in possession of a newish grill that has hardly any use. The fact that it doesn't light properly may have contributed to it's owner parting with it. The first thing I always think is that somehow it wasn't assembled properly to begin with, either by the owner or selling dealer. Since you plan on cleaning it up to flip it, the minor disassembly and reassembly of it will hopefully solve the issue.
 
Some thoughts in no particular order.

swap the battery and clean the connectors in the battery box.
adjust the igniter on the burner a little and see if it helps.
turn out the lights and with the gas off look at the sparks and see where they are landing on the tube.
sand or file the tip of the igniter so it is shiny clean and do the same on the burner across the top. Just slightly. Emery cloth will work too.
try a different propane tank.
 
Thanks guys I appreciate all of you stopping in and trying to help. Yes this one is unique for sure. Another clue is that the center ceramic igniter cover was broken/ cracked. Maybe this grill was blown over in the wind or took a hit of some kind. It looks to be assembled correctly as I have removed the control panel...burners...starter....regulator....etc
 
If the burners burn correctly when lit, and they are not clogged near the ignition area, then I would start by looking towards the igniter electrodes. You need to ensure the electrode has gas surrounding it when you push the button. That means adjusting forward and back. The other issue is distance from the electrode to the burner. If it is too big of a gap, you won't get spark to arc good enough. But, you can also have too small of a gap. I learned this by trial and error. I had the same problem and kept adjusting the electrode gap smaller until it was tiny. Still no fire. I finally decided that can't be the problem and bent it back up....actually a bit further than I thought I should. I tried it any way and bam, it lit every time. I guess the spark needs to be big enough to ignite the propane.
 
Compare each piece to see if your theory about being blown over is the problem. Something is not lining up as it should.
 
JimV said:
Hmmmmm ....this is the first for me and I have cleaned up and sold many. These are so easy to clean and flip. I love the newer burner style. I guess that since burner number one will light if the knob is on low that the gas is pushing into the burner tube possibly too aggressively thus maybe it blows right past hole number one. The burners burn perfectly so maybe on this one we will just get the spark out to burner hole number two. I mean if getting the spark further out resolves the issue for this grill........ehhhhhhhhhhh it might keep me up at night not having the " correct " fix though......hmmmm woops forgot to post a pick of the cook box nuts that I cant remove....see pic
Click to expand...
It's a Flexloc-style lock nut. According to product info, should be easy to remove (ha!).
Castellated nuts have large slots to accept cotter pins as a locking device.
nut.JPG
 
Thanks again for the replies. Ya the nut might be easy to remove but initial feel is that I am about to break something :) you know that feeling....... In this case the nut looks brand new with no corrosion so I guess I just need to break it free of its " locking " technology. Thanks for the link on that.
Yes Bruce and Tony......something is not lined up correctly. It feels to me that the burner tubes are pushed up too tight on the valves. As for spark Bruce......you already taught me that lesson many moon's a go. I remember being stumped on an old Gen 300 and for the life of me couldnt get that thing to fire correctly....sure enough just backed off the electrode and got a nice white hot snappy spark and she fired right up. That is not the situation with this grill. I have awesome spark and I even took a burner tube and an electrode from the " twin " grill to try on this grill and it still wouldnt fire.
I think the best clues so far is that burner number one will fire if hitting spark button and turning valve towards low...it ignites right before it hits the low setting. The other good clue is that the burners fire up and burn perfectly with a lighter no air adjustment of any kind needed.
I believe the grill had some type of trauma.......most likely a fall on its face type of trauma. This would push the valves and manifold slightly out of position. With this model the control panel and valve shaft have a very small opening and only one valve which is the one I adjusted lines up in the center of the small hole. I can see that the manifold itself has a small curve to it....its a slight curve but a curve non the less.
Lets not forget that one of the ceramic igniter hoods was broken as well.....I have never ever seen that before.
I will tinker on it some more today. But if the grill starts and functions perfectly with the spark moved forward I think I will just move the spark forward and accept this as a fix. I will check for leaks from the trauma.......and be done. Its possible if I shorten the burner tube on the far end that I can get everything lined up correctly.
 
Check for frayed wires. I had a few of these grills. The wires get strained over the 90 degree metal at the corner at the manifold between the ignition and the ignition module
 
I will check....but again I have great spark...nice poppin white hot spark. I even tried a different starter and different wires.......spark is not the issue.
 
If you put the parts into the other grill, eventually you get to the one that is not fitting... or you can see what part is out of shape/position. Before. .aybe even measure. I believe you are right. Something is out of position. Possibly from a fall. Does the valve valence have a variance.
 
Does the valve valence have a variance.
Thats fancy talk Tony :) I am not sure what that means. But through process of elimination I believe that you are right. Just keep swapping parts until I find what isnt fitting correctly. I am almost 100% that the manifold via the two through bolts in the cook box and the other two screws that hold it in place must be bent upwards. Now if I can only get those nuts off that are holding the manifold on.
Thanks for the replies (y)(y)(y)
 
Oh....I mentioned above .....those nuts are brand new w no corrosion. They turn very very slightly then lock down. When I put some pressure on the wrench the nut will not budge......I feel if I really crank down that the stud will snap. So my options are......go for it........or come up with a work around. I am just not familiar with how this hardware is supposed to feel when being removed.
 
JimV said:
Oh....I mentioned above .....those nuts are brand new w no corrosion. They turn very very slightly then lock down. When I put some pressure on the wrench the nut will not budge......I feel if I really crank down that the stud will snap. So my options are......go for it........or come up with a work around. I am just not familiar with how this hardware is supposed to feel when being removed.
Click to expand...
Jim, I just looked at the picture of that nut again. It kind of looks like it isn't supposed to come off and that it's being held together by that other piece, some sort of retaining ring? Maybe try and pry that off?Screenshot_20240131-122322.png
 
I don't recall those being on a stud. I thought they were on
a bolt, but my memory sucks at times.
I have seen this issue a couple of times after tip-over.
The igniter sparks perfectly but won't light the burner.
Try adjusting the tip.
Hit those nuts with some PB Blaster, a torch, and
an impact. I will be tearing down a 435 this evening and
will take a closer look at the studs you are talking about also.
 
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