Rusty James
TVWBB Emerald Member
Didn't help me any (chucks, or chips in foil) unless I let the wood smoke a while before adding the meat.
Cherry might be an exception.
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Harry Soo can't be right....
- Thread starter Andre A
- Start date
Didn't help me any (chucks, or chips in foil) unless I let the wood smoke a while before adding the meat.
Cherry might be an exception.
Lynn Dollar
TVWBB Emerald Member
If wood chunks are smoldering in a WSM and giving off an acrid smoke, then I've made a lot of good barbecue with my WSM over the past 16 years by using smoldering wood and acrid smoke.
Harry Soo is the outlier. He's got the proof in his trophies. Don't have to take his word for it. And he doesn't scrimp on the amount of wood he uses.
Someone needs to make a YouTube vid of one of Harry's " three hour arguments " between him and Aaron Franklin on the qualities of smoke. I'd pay to see that one.
Franklin says to not use kiln dried wood in a stick burner, but note in the Yoder vid I posted above, they recommend a kiln dried wood, in fact, an expensive Cattlemans brand. I think maybe a kiln dried wood is better for the WSM, because it ignites with lower air flow. Green wood has more moisture, which takes higher temps to burn off , and doing that puts off a smoldering smoke. I've always used kiln dried chunks in my WSM.
Harry Soo is the outlier. He's got the proof in his trophies. Don't have to take his word for it. And he doesn't scrimp on the amount of wood he uses.
Someone needs to make a YouTube vid of one of Harry's " three hour arguments " between him and Aaron Franklin on the qualities of smoke. I'd pay to see that one.
Franklin says to not use kiln dried wood in a stick burner, but note in the Yoder vid I posted above, they recommend a kiln dried wood, in fact, an expensive Cattlemans brand. I think maybe a kiln dried wood is better for the WSM, because it ignites with lower air flow. Green wood has more moisture, which takes higher temps to burn off , and doing that puts off a smoldering smoke. I've always used kiln dried chunks in my WSM.
Len Dennis
TVWBB Diamond Member
What comes to mind after reading all these opposite-end-of-the-spectrum opinions (not by members necessarily but the "experts") I wonder who sponsors the experts with cash. Look who the sponsors of the experts are and that will give you a good clue as to the direction the expert is pointing you to.
By this, I refer to all the health opinions out there:
Coffee is good for you. Coffee is bad for you.
Carbs are good for you. Carbs are bad for you.
Low fat is good for you. Low fat is bad for you.
And one that I really like: breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
Who pushed that one?? Breakfast cereal manufacturers, that's who.
Etc Etc Etc.
Look at it this way: read the opinions. Decide what seems reasonable in YOUR circumstances. Decide on a method and try it.
Don't like the results, try a different method till one gives you results that YOU like, not what someone else says THEY like
(or that YOU should like).
By this, I refer to all the health opinions out there:
Coffee is good for you. Coffee is bad for you.
Carbs are good for you. Carbs are bad for you.
Low fat is good for you. Low fat is bad for you.
And one that I really like: breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
Who pushed that one?? Breakfast cereal manufacturers, that's who.
Etc Etc Etc.
Look at it this way: read the opinions. Decide what seems reasonable in YOUR circumstances. Decide on a method and try it.
Don't like the results, try a different method till one gives you results that YOU like, not what someone else says THEY like
(or that YOU should like).
Lynn Dollar
TVWBB Emerald Member
Here's a pic I got of the WSM with good airflow. But I was smokin high heat yardbird, had all vents wide open, and did not have the water pan in the cooker to restrict the flow. The smoke here is colored white, but it was also in the evening with my light right behind it. But notice how that smoke is shooting up out of the top vent.
I notice on my stick burner, when I get the worse kind of smoke, its white and puffy and it billows out of the stack, does not shoot straight out like this. And at times, when I'm getting smoldering smoke, it will back up and come out of the firebox also, because I don't have a good draw.
I notice on my stick burner, when I get the worse kind of smoke, its white and puffy and it billows out of the stack, does not shoot straight out like this. And at times, when I'm getting smoldering smoke, it will back up and come out of the firebox also, because I don't have a good draw.
Lynn Dollar
TVWBB Emerald Member
And on that cook, I got too much smoke on the bird. I was using cherry, and the bird should not be that dark.
Here's more what I'm looking for with cherry wood yardbird on the WSM
Here's more what I'm looking for with cherry wood yardbird on the WSM
Dustin Dorsey
TVWBB Hall of Fame
That chicken looks great to me! I think some of that smoke you've got isn't from your chunks. A lot of that is probably steam and the dripping burning.
Rusty James
TVWBB Emerald Member
This subject of good / bad wood smoke, in this thread, is probably the hardest part of smoking meat with charcoal for me.
Even though my method of placing smoke wood directly on the grate has reaped the most rewards, I have occasionally ran into problems in spite of it all. I have seen wait times of at least two hours before adding meat because of white smoke. One sure way to tell if white smoke is full of creosote is to place an oiled grilling surface on the top rack of the WSM and see if it turns yellow. If it turns yellow, quickly swipe a wet finger across the grill and taste the residue. Chances are it will taste like a phone pole.
On the other hand, I have seen white smoke coming from the charcoal itself, but that kind of smoke is a bit more forgiving unless you are smoking poultry.
I get my best results using a quality lump charcoal, such as Royal Oak lump, in the 18" WSM. I have never used it in the 14" smoker due to the small coal ring and the largeness of the lump itself. Maybe I need to play around with the vents more when using charcoal?
Even though my method of placing smoke wood directly on the grate has reaped the most rewards, I have occasionally ran into problems in spite of it all. I have seen wait times of at least two hours before adding meat because of white smoke. One sure way to tell if white smoke is full of creosote is to place an oiled grilling surface on the top rack of the WSM and see if it turns yellow. If it turns yellow, quickly swipe a wet finger across the grill and taste the residue. Chances are it will taste like a phone pole.
On the other hand, I have seen white smoke coming from the charcoal itself, but that kind of smoke is a bit more forgiving unless you are smoking poultry.
I get my best results using a quality lump charcoal, such as Royal Oak lump, in the 18" WSM. I have never used it in the 14" smoker due to the small coal ring and the largeness of the lump itself. Maybe I need to play around with the vents more when using charcoal?
Mike Cout
TVWBB Member
As others have already said, I think it allows the wood to warm before actually starting to burn. The way I look at it, it's like adding more coals to an already burning smoker. If you just toss more unlit coals on top of your lit, it will light up and give you white smoke, as you get when you first light the smoker. If (and what I try to do if I have to add coals) you move your lit to one side and add the unlit, let it warm up for a bit and then move them together it'll light and won't give off white smoke, the same as if it had been in the ring the entire time. I really think the same thing goes for the wood chunks as well. I tend to bury my wood, but at different levels. I certainly don't use 8 pieces, but I'll put a couple of good sized chunks at the grate level, and then bury a couple more about halfway up the ring, and then possibly a couple more flush with the top level of coals.
Rusty James
TVWBB Emerald Member
Makes one wonder if placing wood, and / or charcoal, in a shallow container, and setting it on the grates of a gas grill (on low heat) for a while would eliminate smoke burn-off before placing the wood / charcoal directly on lit charcoal in the WSM.
Might be worth a try.
Might be worth a try.
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On edit this was Pecan.
Lynn Dollar
TVWBB Emerald Member
That would be getting close to running it like a stick burner and controlling temps by the amount of charcoal used.
I've been watching a lot BBQ Pitmasters reruns on the American Destination Channel. A lot of those folks are using water smokers that are really nothing more than a WSM on steroids. They use charcoal and wood chunks.
I'm sure the science says the white smoke has particles that we don't want on our meat, but I also wonder if its just something needless to worry with.
timothy
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I don't have a problem with white smoke, dark or black smoke on the other hand , yea cause that's a poorly combustive fire.
Tim
John Worthy
New member
I have 3 18s and a 22. ONE of the 18s is my favorite. Every dadgum one cooks different. I agree. Do your style. That's what cookin is.If folks truly enjoy your your cooking....what more can you ask
Bradley Mack
TVWBB Pro
I tried “smoldering” 2 large chunks of apple and 2 large chunks of cherry wood on my pork shoulder yesterday. While it didn’t produce an acrid smoke, I found it did offer a slightly more pronounced smoke flavour. Not stronger, just more evident.
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I’ve adopted the wood below coal technique and have had excellent results.
Last couple of briskets have been using whiskey barrel chunks. Using a layer across the bottom, huge load of K-pro, sidewinder ignition style. Virtually no headaches, smooth even smokes, it’s worked better than I’d expected, I was skeptical about it but, no more. That’s my preferred method anymore.
Last couple of briskets have been using whiskey barrel chunks. Using a layer across the bottom, huge load of K-pro, sidewinder ignition style. Virtually no headaches, smooth even smokes, it’s worked better than I’d expected, I was skeptical about it but, no more. That’s my preferred method anymore.
GrantT
TVWBB Pro
I had a Broil King Keg (an extremely efficient grill - too efficient actually) for years before getting my Summit S6, and the ONLY way I could get a non-acrid, nice clean smoke was to place the chunks underneath the lump.
By placing it underneath the coals, you get an "after burner" effect where un-burned organics get re-introduced into the heat of the charcoal above and gets a second burning.
Even with the Summit Kamado, I have repeated this and just find the smoke that comes from wood chunks burning underneath the smoldering charcoal produces a more pleasant smelling, less acrid smoke. i.e. thin blue smoke. That said, the Summit is also a very efficient grill as well...
...so, I think the more efficient the grill, the more important it is to apply additional techniques as necessary to improve the burn.
By placing it underneath the coals, you get an "after burner" effect where un-burned organics get re-introduced into the heat of the charcoal above and gets a second burning.
Even with the Summit Kamado, I have repeated this and just find the smoke that comes from wood chunks burning underneath the smoldering charcoal produces a more pleasant smelling, less acrid smoke. i.e. thin blue smoke. That said, the Summit is also a very efficient grill as well...
...so, I think the more efficient the grill, the more important it is to apply additional techniques as necessary to improve the burn.
I use 6-8 chunks under the coals on my WSMs. Depends on the temps and the wood for the smoke flavor in my opinion. I wouldn't use that much in all hickory for example, it would be way too strong. I don't feel that there is much flavor difference in the wood types as much as there is strength of smoke flavor. When running hot and fast, the smoke flavor seems lighter, so I'll use the same amount of wood but balance it more to the stronger flavors.
Lynn Dollar
TVWBB Emerald Member
wow , re-reading this old post .......... two years ago I was searching for answers on the diff between a clean offset fire and charcoal/chunk. Still searching. I don't understand why wood chunks smoldering in charcoal don't produce dirty smoke.
And since then I've bought a Masterbuilt 560 gravity feed and have added the clean smoke it seems to produce to the mystery. Just a couple weeks ago I did a comparison cook between the MB560 and my WSM with spare ribs. I could tell no diff in the flavor between the two.
While a few months ago, I did a comparison cook of the MB560 and my Franklin offset and there was a distinct diff in flavor.
And since then I've bought a Masterbuilt 560 gravity feed and have added the clean smoke it seems to produce to the mystery. Just a couple weeks ago I did a comparison cook between the MB560 and my WSM with spare ribs. I could tell no diff in the flavor between the two.
While a few months ago, I did a comparison cook of the MB560 and my Franklin offset and there was a distinct diff in flavor.