• Enter our Anniversary Prize Drawing for a chance to win a 70th Anniversary Weber Limited-Edition Kettle Grill! Click here to enter!

Bagels - First time


 

Joe Anshien

TVWBB Gold Member
So we moved and we haven't found anywhere around that has good bagels so I thought I would give it a try. I made 8 bagels and they came out with the proper amount of chewiness and a nice textured crust. I followed this recipe and substituted 1/2 cup whole wheat flower, used malt powder, boiled 1 1/2 minutes per side, of course seasoned both sides, and baked 12 minutes after flipping. https://www.epicurious.com/.../food/views/bagels-366757...
1655350468329.png
 

Rich G

TVWBB Platinum Member
Good looking bagels, Joe! I've tried my hand at bagels quite a number of times, and they always come out good, but never quite what I'm searching for......I think I have even made this Epicurious recipe once. :)

....I just got a new shipment of the barley syrup, as my kids have been asking for a batch of bagels for a while! Your post will kick me into gear! :)

R
 

Joe Anshien

TVWBB Gold Member
Good looking bagels, Joe! I've tried my hand at bagels quite a number of times, and they always come out good, but never quite what I'm searching for......I think I have even made this Epicurious recipe once. :)

....I just got a new shipment of the barley syrup, as my kids have been asking for a batch of bagels for a while! Your post will kick me into gear! :)

R
I grew up on fresh, hot bagels in NJ. In VA I never find ones that have seasoning on BOTH sides with the proper chewiness. I think the malt powder combined with a little extra time in water helped. I prepared them in the evening and boiled and baked in time for lunch with cream cheese, lox, tomato, and lettuce.
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
I grew up on fresh, hot bagels in NJ. In VA I never find ones that have seasoning on BOTH sides with the proper chewiness. I think the malt powder combined with a little extra time in water helped. I prepared them in the evening and boiled and baked in time for lunch with cream cheese, lox, tomato, and lettuce.
Now you gotta make your own lox.
 

Darren Lebner

TVWBB Pro
Another thread where I got help here in making cold smoked salmon. Now my family doesn't want to touch the store-bought stuff anymore!

 

JKalchik

TVWBB Guru
....I just got a new shipment of the barley syrup, as my kids have been asking for a batch of bagels for a while! Your post will kick me into gear! :)
Personally, I find that barley malt syrup is one of the messiest things to handle in the kitchen. Stop at a homebrewer's supply and pick up some dry malt extract, and use about 80-90% by weight of the syrup. DME will also mix in much easier than the syrup.

It's been far too long since I've made bagels.
 

Rich G

TVWBB Platinum Member
Personally, I find that barley malt syrup is one of the messiest things to handle in the kitchen. Stop at a homebrewer's supply and pick up some dry malt extract, and use about 80-90% by weight of the syrup. DME will also mix in much easier than the syrup.

It's been far too long since I've made bagels.
JK, yep, I've used both (had to work through my leftover stock of DME when I stopped brewing! 🤣🤣 I haven't had any issues with the syrup, and for some reason, I feel like it works better.

If anyone in this thread cares to give it a go.....and if you like cream cheese on your bagel.....making cream cheese is actually quite easy. I mean, if you're going to make your own lox and everything! :)

R
 

Joe Anshien

TVWBB Gold Member
I found someone who did it here.

Thread 'Perfect cold smoke weather this weekend. Lox anyone?'
https://tvwbb.com/threads/perfect-cold-smoke-weather-this-weekend-lox-anyone.89052/
OK - You guys got me interested so I started going down the rabbit hole on lox. From what I can tell (correct me if wrong) but there is lox, gravlox, and nova (Not counting smoked salmon). The first 2 are dry-brined only 24 - 48 hours. The Nova is dry-brined then cold smoked (I am confused about smoking times, some 1-2 hours some 12-24 hours). When growing up we just knew that lox was salty and nova was less salty and we had wars-of-words over what was better. I always preferred the saltier version. I may attempt to make lox now as it is summer and almost every day here in VA is probably too hot to cold smoke. Come fall I will probably attempt cold smoking (Nova). Never even thought about making my own cream cheese. I may have to investigate that next. You folks are such a bad influence;-)
 

Rich G

TVWBB Platinum Member
OK - You guys got me interested so I started going down the rabbit hole on lox. From what I can tell (correct me if wrong) but there is lox, gravlox, and nova (Not counting smoked salmon). The first 2 are dry-brined only 24 - 48 hours. The Nova is dry-brined then cold smoked (I am confused about smoking times, some 1-2 hours some 12-24 hours). When growing up we just knew that lox was salty and nova was less salty and we had wars-of-words over what was better. I always preferred the saltier version. I may attempt to make lox now as it is summer and almost every day here in VA is probably too hot to cold smoke. Come fall I will probably attempt cold smoking (Nova). Never even thought about making my own cream cheese. I may have to investigate that next. You folks are such a bad influence;-)
Aw, c'mon, Joe, what else are you going to do with your time!!! :)

Lots of cheese making resources out on the Internet. The basics are cream (you can vary butterfat content here to your preference by what kind of cream you use), cheese culture, and something to coagulate the cheese (rennet is most popular.) Add some heat to the cream, add culture and let develop, coagulate, drain then eat as plain CC, or flavor to your heart's content! :) Oh, and just for fun, before you get to the draining phase, you have essentially made sour cream. I've been known to make a larger batch, then take 1/3 of it for sour cream, and drain the rest for cream cheese.

Brett has more lox experience than I do, so I'll defer to him on that rabbit hole! :)

R
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
OK - You guys got me interested so I started going down the rabbit hole on lox. From what I can tell (correct me if wrong) but there is lox, gravlox, and nova (Not counting smoked salmon). The first 2 are dry-brined only 24 - 48 hours. The Nova is dry-brined then cold smoked (I am confused about smoking times, some 1-2 hours some 12-24 hours). When growing up we just knew that lox was salty and nova was less salty and we had wars-of-words over what was better. I always preferred the saltier version. I may attempt to make lox now as it is summer and almost every day here in VA is probably too hot to cold smoke. Come fall I will probably attempt cold smoking (Nova). Never even thought about making my own cream cheese. I may have to investigate that next. You folks are such a bad influence;-)

@Joe Anshien, here the link to my detailed recipe and process.


for your first go around, i'd recco not deviating from the recipe until you see how it turns out and then mod to any preferences you might have.

if you brine longer than recommended time my recipe calls for, the salmon will turn into a plank and you'll have jerky. i speak from experience. while it's good jerky, it won't be sliceable lox.

here's an excellent link to learn more about what is Nova, Lox and what is Belly Lox and smoked salmon:


the quotes are from Russ and Daughters, a famous appetizing store on the LES in NY. i've spent many a time in line there when i lived in NY.

as for "what's better?" good luck. that's a personal taste argument.

i used to "press" my salmon as it cured during the 24 hour brine period with an identical container but filled with water to add weight atop the salmon. I stopped doing that as weighting the salmon forced too much moisture out of the fish. just gently pressing in the rub is enough, and these days i will flip the salmon after 12 hours in its brining tub (i use this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016QQ2JUK/?tag=tvwb-20)

I also used to wrap my salmon in plastic film after applying the dry rub. i no longer do that as it's not needed and creates more garbage/waste. just flipping it after 12 hours and mixing up the now liquid with brine to ensure all brine is dissolved into the liquid and on the salmon is enough.

this video will show you how Acme Smoked Fish in NY does their lox. i learned a lot from watching this and other videos:

after the 24 hours brine, just do a good rinse off of any leftover solids. you're not washing it like laundry, just rinse it and smooth your hand over the fish. like in life, don't overwork it. just rinse it.

note, when you choose your smoking vessel/chamber, a good ole gas grill makes for a great chamber. keep the lid cracked open a little bit so that you will dissipate any heat that's generated from the cold smoke tube (i use this one and highly recco it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N3QG4QL/?tag=tvwb-20

and i LOVE how maple plays with the salmon for that authentic NY Jewish lox flavor (i bought this bag of pellets and they're great: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00201CF0K/?tag=tvwb-20) looks like you're gong to have to find a source for them somewhere

smoke per the recipe link and you MUST plastic wrap the salmon after the smoke, and fridge the salmon at least overnight, as the smoke residue (atomized smoke particulates) need to rest and penetrate the flesh. i've sliced freshly smoked salmon right after smoking it and the flavor is a bit bitter. wrapping and resting it mellows the smoke particulates and they make their way into the flesh for a smoother and even flavor profile.

finally, only make lox from farm raised salmon. wild salmon has parasites and requires full cooking to kill those parasite. brining and cold smoking salmon is still eating raw salmon as your salmon will never get above 80 degrees F, if you do it right.

ask any questions you might have. i've been in the salmon lox rabbit hole for years now. note, if you get good at this, and you want a side hustle,, a quality side of cold smoked salmon sells for $35 a pound. so a $40 Costco salmon ($11.99#) will sell for $117. i have done some side catering jobs over the years and people will pay for this product. i usually round up to $125 for a sliced side of salmon, 3.33# is a typical large one at Costco.
 
Last edited:

EmoryG

TVWBB Fan
The bagel recipe linked in the original post above was first published in the book Artisan Breads Every Day by Peter Reinhart. There is a note at the bottom of the page saying that the recipe was used with permission. I recently bought that book and recognized the text.

If you are serious about artisan bread making, I highly recommend The Bread Baker's Apprentice, 15th Anniversary Edition by Peter Reinhart as the best book to start. There is much overlap between the two books, so I would not get both at the beginning. Here are Amazon links where you can buy them. I tried to find the original publisher's web pages for those books, but struck out:

The Bread Baker's Apprentice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1607748657/
Artisan Breads Every Day: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1580089984/

I found those books at the public library and liked them so much that I bought them to keep as references at home. I had to buy The Bread Baker's Apprentice (15th) new, but it is a great value in hardback at only $19. I recommend getting the 15th Anniversary Edition over a used copy of the original edition. I found a used copy of Artisan Breads Every Day for a good price. As I said, if you're starting out, get only one of the two books (and I recommend "BBA" if you're serious).

Okay .. now back to grilling!
 
Last edited:

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
The bagel recipe at Epicurious in the original post link above was stolen from the book Artisan Breads Every Day by Peter Reinhart, page 74. I recently bought that book and recognized the text. As someone who has been victimized by copyright theft, I may be more sensitive to it than others.

If you are serious about artisan bread making, I highly recommend The Bread Baker's Apprentice, 15th Anniversary Edition by Peter Reinhart as the best book to start. There is much overlap between the two books, so I would not get both at the beginning. Here are Amazon links where you can buy them. I tried to find the original publisher's web pages for those books, but struck out:

The Bread Baker's Apprentice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1607748657/
Artisan Breads Every Day: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1580089984/

I found those books at the public library and liked them so much that I bought them to keep as references at home. I had to buy The Bread Baker's Apprentice (15th) new, but it is a great value in hardback at only $19. I recommend getting the 15th Anniversary Edition over a used copy of the original edition. I found a used copy of Artisan Breads Every Day for a good price. As I said, if you're starting out, get just one of the two.

Okay .. now back to grilling!
Be careful when your ready, fire, aim.

The recipe is properly attributed and likely licensed.

1655401888130.png
 

EmoryG

TVWBB Fan
Be careful when your ready, fire, aim.

The recipe is properly attributed and likely licensed.

(Image of webpage, showing the citation for Peter Reinhart as the author.)
You are right! My bad. I stand corrected. At the very bottom of the webpage there is a note saying "Used with permission ..." and citing the book.

(I edited my post above based on your input, so it does not match what you quoted.)
 

Joe Anshien

TVWBB Gold Member
So once again you guys pushed me to go further. I made my own lox. I did not know it was so easy. Not saving much $$ though. I was at Costco and purchased some wild caught salmon $15 / lb I believe. My wife cooked up 1/2 and I took the rest and made up a mix of 50 /50 salt and brown sugar and a dash of dill, coated both sides wrapped in plastic and put in fridge for 2 days. Sliced up and it came out like the real thing! Some day I may smoke for an hour or 2 to make nova. But then the classic dilemma. No bagels. So here is batch 2. One thing I noticed is that the bagels tend to deflate a little after boiling and don't have quite enough puff for me. Any ideas?
20220622_114247.jpg 20220622_120035.jpg
 

 

Top