Another WSM Smoke Ring Failure


 
Tony, there is only one thing contributing to your no smoke ring problem that I can see. Miss Piggy is ****ed. What women after being called Miss Piggy is
EVER going to do what you ask of her? It is a hopeless situation. Just send her to me, I'll treat her right. :).

Bob, you're a homewrecker! Lol! :D
 
I really has nothing to with what you are burning and how you are burning it, but everything to do with temp. The longer you can keep your meat surface temps below the point at which the muscle proteins denature (around 140*) the deeper your ring. If rings are your thing, put your meat on straight from the fridge (as cold as possible), minion the start and begin choking down the vents pretty much right away. You're going to need to slow your temp ramp so it'll take 1 to 1.5 hours before you get to your target temp. Once you start thinking about temps, you'll be able to get as big a ring as you want.
 
I really has nothing to with what you are burning and how you are burning it, but everything to do with temp. The longer you can keep your meat surface temps below the point at which the muscle proteins denature (around 140*) the deeper your ring. If rings are your thing, put your meat on straight from the fridge (as cold as possible), minion the start and begin choking down the vents pretty much right away. You're going to need to slow your temp ramp so it'll take 1 to 1.5 hours before you get to your target temp. Once you start thinking about temps, you'll be able to get as big a ring as you want.

J and Bob, just so you guys don't think I'm blowing my own smoke, here's part of the article from Meathead's site. Also, do a search for "smoke ring and combustion gas" and you might stumble onto other info online that discusses combustion gas contribution to the smoke ring.

"A faux smoke ring can also develop without smoke if you cook low 'n' slow. When meat is cooked fast, the proteins in the muscle and myoglobin denature at the same time and combine to turn brown. When cooked slowly, the muscle proteins finish denaturing before the naturally pink myoglobin denatures and so the meat remains pink. You can occasionally see this phenomenon in braised meat like a beef stew. It may have been cooked for hours in a liquid at low temps, yet the meat will still be slightly pink inside.
On the other hand, some meats cooked low and slow in a smoky environment in an electric smoker will not develop a smoke ring. That is partially because the wood smolders at a low temp in electrics, and high temps (around 1,200°F or so) are required to create the most nitrogen and carbon monoxides. Experts at cooking in electric smokers add a charcoal briquet as well as wood to create the correct atmospheric conditions for a smoke ring. Some of these briquets actually contain powdered sodium nitrates, which enhance ring formation. But in general, a vigorous charcoal or wood fire at just the right temperature, produces the deepest ring...."
(Taken from the "Amazing Ribs" site)
 
J and Bob, just so you guys don't think I'm blowing my own smoke, here's part of the article from Meathead's site. Also, do a search for "smoke ring and combustion gas" and you might stumble onto other info online that discusses combustion gas contribution to the smoke ring.

"A faux smoke ring can also develop without smoke if you cook low 'n' slow. When meat is cooked fast, the proteins in the muscle and myoglobin denature at the same time and combine to turn brown. When cooked slowly, the muscle proteins finish denaturing before the naturally pink myoglobin denatures and so the meat remains pink. You can occasionally see this phenomenon in braised meat like a beef stew. It may have been cooked for hours in a liquid at low temps, yet the meat will still be slightly pink inside.
On the other hand, some meats cooked low and slow in a smoky environment in an electric smoker will not develop a smoke ring. That is partially because the wood smolders at a low temp in electrics, and high temps (around 1,200°F or so) are required to create the most nitrogen and carbon monoxides. Experts at cooking in electric smokers add a charcoal briquet as well as wood to create the correct atmospheric conditions for a smoke ring. Some of these briquets actually contain powdered sodium nitrates, which enhance ring formation. But in general, a vigorous charcoal or wood fire at just the right temperature, produces the deepest ring...."
(Taken from the "Amazing Ribs" site)

I agree, however when cooking over charcoal, the IMO the limiting factor isn't nitrites in the atmosphere, but temps. I probably overstated my point, that's my fault.

I've been using a combo of Humphrey's lump, foil packets of wood chips and no water for a few years and >50 cooks. And the depth of the ring for me, seems to depend on initial meat temp and duration of temp ramp.
 
Also helps if one trims the fat, since the molecules of the oxides of nitrogen will not penetrate it, nor will the water that is liberated from the meat. Without both, no smoke ring.
If an oil, which is not water soluble, is added to the surface of the meat during the prep stage, then the smoke ring will suffer or be non-existent.
Very familiar with Dr. Blonder's work. I believe there's a picture on that site which graphically shows the lack of a smoke ring in a portion of the meat due to the presents of a fat layer.
Totally agree with Mr Biesinger. Since I do not use Kingsford, my meat (directly from the frig) goes on as soon as I light the fire in order to maximized the time until the meat's protein denaturing process starts.
One can achieve an excellent, deep smoke ring with the WSM, IF the pitmaster follows the proper meat preparation, starts with cold meat, and maximizes the time until the meat hits the denaturing stage.
 
^. BUT, I thought most people advise letting your wood stop burning from the initial light in favor of the smoldering, light blue smoke afterward. Therefore, I generally wait ten mins or so after initial light to put cold meat on the WSM.
 
What does a smoke ring taste like? I always tried to do cooks to have the food taste great, if there is a smoke ring great, if not great, to me it was about the taste and I haven't noticed a difference in taste between those with a faint smoke ring and a well defined smoke ring.
I must be missing something. I guess also the family has been being nice saying my Q tastes good/great but what would you expect of family. I love my 22 and my 14 but what should I trade them in on to get that well defined smoke ring? All this time I though because my Q was as good as the stuff I ate at Famous Dave's and the local BBQ spot I was doing ok. Little did I know that the smoke ring makes such a big difference in taste. Usually I cook without water.
Would a pellet grill or a Big Green Egg give me that better tasting Q that you can only get if you have a well defined smoke ring?

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^. BUT, I thought most people advise letting your wood stop burning from the initial light in favor of the smoldering, light blue smoke afterward. Therefore, I generally wait ten mins or so after initial light to put cold meat on the WSM.
I believe the difference is that I do not place any chunks on top (used to, not any more). Those chunks are partially buried so that will not flame, just char. That along with using a charcoal that doesn't off gas, as does Kingsford, allows me to put the meat on right at the beginning without any negative side effects.
 
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This is a very out of focus picture of one of my earlyWSM cooks. There is definitely a smoke ring there although it's not that deep.
This is a pic from one of my first briskets on the offset.
brisket.jpg


I always let my smoker come up to temp before putting the meat on, and just put some chunks in. The WSM pic was with water in the pan. No water in the offset. Both were wrapped either at 150 or 160. Not what I currently do. Mainly I'm just learning how to post pics here. There is definetly more of a ring with offset. I typically let the meat sit out to get as close to room temp as possible. One thing that might make a difference is my rub is simply salt and pepper on these so there is probably more salt right on the brisket than most people's rubs.
 
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I'm telling ya.. season the meat 4-6 hours in advance and put it back in the fridge. Put it on the pit, use lump or briqs.. doesn't matter. I get a nice smoke ring even on a kamado cooker (bubba keg) which are known for lack of smoke rings. Salt makes a difference.
 
Know I'm a little late here. Just watched a BBQ Addiction with Bobby Flay. He did a full packer on a BGE, there was no smoke ring on his, but it looked very juicy. Just saying.
 
Know I'm a little late here. Just watched a BBQ Addiction with Bobby Flay. He did a full packer on a BGE, there was no smoke ring on his, but it looked very juicy. Just saying.
I just watched that episode too, thought he might cook it on the WSM sitting there.
Guess he went with the BGE since the WSM proved a challenge some years back.
Putting the water pan on the charcoal ring:
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Pic found on the WSM humor page here:
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/humor1.html
 
Bob... lol ;)
Just watched the video.
So many 'mis-steps' taken ;)
And... nice thick slices on what appears to be an undercooked, improperly sliced brisket.
Bet that turned out to be a 'little' chewy, if you could at all...
 
So I did another smoke ring test on my WSM today. I cooked 2 cheese stuffed fattys and some cheese brats. I got better results this time, and I send shouts out to my TVWB friends for all your advice and suggestions.

 
Hi Tony,

Excellent cook and video !!!
With the bacon (and its fat content) covering the sausage, I'm surprised you even got a smoke ring. Great Job !
Both the fattie and the brats look delicious !

Bob
 
Personally I wouldn't worry too much about appearance, to me it is all about taste.

Myron Mixon said "I would rather have good BBQ from an ugly box, than bad BBQ from a good looking box"

to paraphrase I would say "I would rather have good tasting BBQ with no smoke ring ...
 

 

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