Another bread post


 
Len Dennis

Len Dennis

TVWBB Diamond Member
I do little to no smokin' in the winter so all I've got to post about is my bread.

Upload in progress. I've finally got into photobucket. Uploaded 7 pics but can only see/access one :mad: . They sure are messed up. To upload a pic did it 3 or 4 times before it's successful (even after the system told me I was successful. This post took 60 minutes to compose!

This is what <1/4t of yeast does to 1 kg (2.2 lb) of unbleached white flour (50%), whole wheat flour (25%) and spelt flour (25%) (I grind my own flour except for the unbleached white) when allowed to work for 12 hours. It started out at a bit less than the 1 litre mark (where the vertical red line starts).
20170111_102252_zpse8dwe3zd.jpg~original

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On the counter ready to be divided
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In the baskets to proof (covered) for another hour while the oven heats
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And here they are after 45 minutes
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and opened up (yah, I know: out of focus) but they're already in the freezer so no new pics.
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BONUS:
For those who have managed to slog their way through this ordeal of a post, I present

Ranch Flavoured Pretzels
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I'm not a fan of pretzels (I usually eat them last if at all when enjoying Bits 'n Bites) but these tempted me when I found the recipe.

These have got a mix of Ranch seasoning, garlic, onion and cayenne.

I couldn't stop eating them straight from the oven. Sooooo tasty.

Thanks for persevering with me :)
 
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Gary London said:
How do you get that amazing crust on the bread? Does it involve high heat and steam?
Click to expand...

A combination of both. Normally bread is done at 375o (with little to no sugar--there is a little bit but not much to speak of--enough to "wake up" the yeast).

This version uses NO sugar (as in ZERO) . It's done in a 4 or 5 qt covered dutch oven at 475o for 30 min then 15 uncovered.

Very observant about the steam component.

With the lid on initially, the bread creates its own steam which is contained by the lid. It does get a golden colour prior to lifting the lid. Then with the lid removed, it gets that lovely brown (or dark brown) crust. That is really where the flavour is concentrated.

I sometimes leave it an extra 5 min to get even darker. It's not burnt even though some may say it's black. It's just a very dark brown.

When you cut it, the crust literally shatters.
 
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Cliff Bartlett said:
Looks terrific Len. I guess those loaves freeze up pretty good? Haven't tried it yet with mine, but would be handy.
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Yes for the most part. As expected, use freezer bags and extract as much air as possible. Not using preservatives naturally affects the end product when not consumed quickly.

Two loaves usually last us about 2 wk but near the end, enough moisture has escaped that toast is the go-to method near the end. Sometimes, I'll nuke a (frozen) slice for 15-20 seconds and it's like it's just out of the oven.
 
Really nice looking loaves, Len! DO is my go-to also, though I keep trying different steaming methods for batards so I can do something other than round loaves......just don't get the same spring. Will probably invest in an oblong clay baker at some point.

I have that same "bread" tub, but went with the polypropylene one (can't remember why.) Great for single vessel mixing and bulk proof!

Our bread consumption is about the same....1 loaf/week. I either freeze one, or give one away and bake twice as often.

Rain is keeping me off the grill down here.....

R
 
Rich G said:
Really nice looking loaves, Len! DO is my go-to also, though I keep trying different steaming methods for batards so I can do something other than round loaves......just don't get the same spring. Will probably invest in an oblong clay baker at some point.

I have that same "bread" tub, but went with the polypropylene one (can't remember why.) Great for single vessel mixing and bulk proof!

Our bread consumption is about the same....1 loaf/week. I either freeze one, or give one away and bake twice as often.

Rain is keeping me off the grill down here.....

R
Click to expand...

I've seen the weather pics on the news up here. Horrendous and I hope you're not getting flooded out.

Clay baker might be a good idea but I might hesitate as they have no handles and seeing as you're working at 475o, I would personally like a better hand hold than trying to pick up the ends whilst wearing thick mitts..

Consider making french baguettes (requires spritzing but no d.o.) or regular french/italian loaves using the same long rise dough. I've had great success using the same 12 hr method for the dough, and making baguettes instead of round loaves in the d.o. I've got a 12 hr recipe and a 2 hr recipe when I'm rushed. The 2 hr one is obviously not as good but makes a passable loaf.

Guess I should ask: what is the recipe you use (that is giving you problems)?
 
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Len Dennis said:
Guess I should ask: what is the recipe you use (that is giving you problems)?
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It's a 72% hydration, sourdough formula that has about 10% WW flour, the rest is AP (my 100% hydration starter is added at 20% of the flour in the recipe). I don't think the recipe itself is the issue, I think that the lack of spring I get when I'm cooking on my baking stone vs. in the DO, is pretty well rooted in the quality of the steam. I've had intermittent success with a few methods, and I could dial them in if I practiced more......

I'm a daredevil, so a 500 degree clay baker, and compromised dexterity is right up my alley (I've been known to grill in flip-flops, too!) :) :)

Oh, and through meticulous testing, I have determined that round and non-round loaves of the same recipe taste the same.....I guess I just long for geometrical variety! :)

Just for fun, my last loaves:

31301696424_faf6c90eac_k.jpg


R
 
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Rich G said:
I'm a daredevil, so a 500 degree clay baker, and compromised dexterity is right up my alley (I've been known to grill in flip-flops, too!) :) :)

Oh, and through meticulous testing, I have determined that round and non-round loaves of the same recipe taste the same.....I guess I just long for geometrical variety! :)

R
Click to expand...
roflmao.

Re recipe: agree. It's a puzzle why it won't rise. Assume you use fresh yeast. Use a long rise/little yeast or vice versa, either will work and not affect the rise.

Unless you go with 2t yeast and work the dough too much?? Maybe over-proofed?? Finger-dent about 1/2" that doesn't fully re-expand is ideal. If you poke it and it stays depressed, it's over-proofed.

There are recipes that use no yeast (other than what is in the air naturally). Maybe try that route.

Sorry if you know this but it sometimes helps to state the obvious.

edit: just got your edit (pics)-->what size d.o. do you use? I see the loaf is substantially wider than your proofing basket. Indicates to me that your hydration is/might be too high---or your d.o. is too big. Is it "gloopy" trying to get it into the basket? It may NOT be the yeast/rise/spring but rather the hydration level (regardless of what your recipe says it should be).

One other thing: I've reduced my hydration to 68% and find the spring in a 5 qt is almost identical to my 4 qt.

After all this, I would guess that your stone is the issue--coupled possibly with the hydration level, there is nothing to "constrain" the dough. If you reduce the total hydration to say 68% (for a start) when you are using the stone, you may find that it will hold up bettter.
 
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Len, yeah, there's no question that if I reduce the hydration that the spring improves. My elusive goal is higher hydration AND spring! :) I like the larger holes, and more "gelatinous" crumb that can be had with higher hydration. I know that it CAN be done, just not by me, in my oven, on a stone.....yet.

There's no commercial yeast in my formula, it's leavened completely by the wee beasties in my starter.......varying the percentage of starter in the formula merely changes the amount of time needed for bulk fermentation and proofing (of course, changing the level of sour as well.....)

It's a complex process, and that's why I love it. Art, science and chance all mixed together......and it all tastes good. I start every day with two slices of my homemade bread toasted and buttered......sometimes with homemade bacon! :)

Thanks for the thoughts on how to achieve better spring on the non-DO loaves, Len. I'll add that to my collection of knowledge/input, and keep at it......hopefully, without any visits to the burn unit in the process!

R
 
Just wondering: you use a 500o oven but do you let the stone come up to temp say for 30 minutes AFTER your oven clicks off or do you plop the dough on it as soon as it reaches temp?
 
Len Dennis said:
Just wondering: you use a 500o oven but do you let the stone come up to temp say for 30 minutes AFTER your oven clicks off or do you plop the dough on it as soon as it reaches temp?
Click to expand...

Yep, preheat for an hour, so there's about 40 minutes of heat-soaking for the stone (or DO's) after the oven indicates it's pre-heated. I've tried more starter/less starter, room temp ferment/cold ferment, cold ferment-quick into oven/cold ferment-delayed into oven, etc, etc.

Hit me with any other ideas you have.......I like hearing them all......maybe I just need to buy a commercial oven, or build a WFO! :)

R
 
I'm outta ideas here other than using a 4 qt d.o.

Good luck with this (I only use a stone for pizza and bagels now). I bought a 2-loaf french loaf pan and a 3-loaf baguette pan because I was tired of flat loaves ;) . I use the d.o. exclusively now for "regular" bread.

edit-- found this when googling for how to keep boule from spreading. It suggests that having to use a 9" basket (smallest I could find to buy), it is difficult to maintain the height you seek. Maybe make a bigger loaf as they suggest? A 3 lb loaf is way beyond what I want but hey, it is a solution.
http://artisanbreadinfive.com/2008/01/28/beautiful-boules-with-a-banneton-brotform . I don't know how they fit 3 lb of dough in a 9" basket though.

BTW, those loaves of mine were about 700-750 gm each.
 
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Len Dennis said:
Maybe make a bigger loaf as they suggest?
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Interesting......I recently moved to a larger loaf, but can try another increase. Here's the current formula (makes 2 boules):

1200g flour
240g WW starter (20%)
840g water (70%)
24g salt (2%)

Maybe I'll bump it to 1300g flour, and adjust everything else in the same baker's percentages. Worth a try.....worst case is I have more tasty bread to eat! :)

R
 
That's some amazing bread Len, excellent cook & photos. Thanks for the link, I'm gonna get me one, with the lid
 
Rich, I don't do levain bread so I am somewhat rusty (if not frozen solid ;) ) on the math but:

you say your starter is 20% to come to 72% final hydration. BUT when I look at my reference books, your 20% is supposed to represent the amount of flour in the levain that is added to the total mix, not the hydration of the levain (which should be around 72% (your stated goal, if you will--the same as you want your bread to be)-->for the hydration calculation: either too much flour or too little water.

Without doing the actual math, I think your problem is that your final hydration is too low (ie below 72%--how much, it's too early in the a.m. for me to figure out ;) ).

What is the answer? Base your starter hydration on your known hydration level for the starter. Only use the water component of the starter and add that to your stated 840 gm of water and use that (final flour of1200gm plus flour in your added starter). I think you're adding (water+flour) to just the flour and then calculating your hydration.

Don't know if your final hydration figure will be different and it may be an insignificant diff but I know that 20-30 gms of water makes a big difference in the final outcome.

Hope this makes sense as I'm typing while having my coffee ;)
 
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