WSM vs Summit Kamado


 
Brock... Apparently you don't get my little bit of attempted humor with the word Amateur. And what official, recognized licenses have you attained ?

As far as overcooked... Fall off the bone ribs ARE overcooked ribs. Educated yourself on meat structure and changes within said structure before, during and after the cook. And I don't mean watching some YouTube video !!!! Attend a class. Read an authoritative thesis on the subject. A good start would be "On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee. University of Iowa has a great class on this as does the University of Texas.

Are you a Certified BBQ judge with any organization ? I am. And a Master at that. Due diligence can be beneficial !

Years ago, I taught an advanced class in meat tenderness and texture. Loads of research prior to teaching !!! Our host, Chris, can verify.
 
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Bob Bass said:
Brock... Apparently you don't get my little bit of attempted humor with the word Amateur. And what official, recognized licenses have you attained ?

As far as overcooked... Fall off the bone ribs ARE overcooked ribs. Educated yourself on meat structure and changes within said structure before, during and after the cook. And I don't mean watching some YouTube video !!!! Attend a class. Read an authoritative thesis on the subject. A good start would be "On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee. University of Iowa has a great class on this as does the University of Texas.

Are you a Certified BBQ judge with any organization ? I am. And a Master at that. Due diligence can be beneficial !

Years ago, I taught an advanced class in meat tenderness and texture. Loads of research prior to teaching !!! Our host, Chris, can verify.
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As few as possible on licenses. :) I take issue with permission slips being demanded for liberty exercise.

If nothing else I can see you didn't get my joke. Just for this time I am going to say this, you are getting combative for no good reason. We try to stay pretty laid back here and provide a forum that is friendly and respectful to all. If you wish to have a heated argument please either take it private, or do so outside TVWBB.

I'm going to give you benefit of doubt that maybe you had a bad day and took what I said in a way that was not intended. For that I apologize if that is what happened, and in return I would like to request that this not happen again. Fair enough?
 
Brock, Bob has been here a long time & deserves respect, he knows what he is talking about regardless of the miscommunication you may have taken the wrong way.
 
I have cooked on both the WSM and WSK. I was an early adopter of the WSK, bought it when Weber first came out with it back in 2016, at that time it was the Weber Summit Charcoal Grill (WSCG). I sold my WSCG in 2020, not because I wanted to, but Covid lock downs hit me hard (economically), sad story for another place and time.

Anyway, my experience with the WSK was first and for most, it cooks like a Kamado. The difference between it and the ceramic versions are two fold. First it uses air, instead of ceramic, for its insulation. Air is a better insulator than ceramic, so it's more efficient. Air, however, is way worse at heat retention. This allows better recovery if you overshoot your temperature (doesn't retain the heat, cools down quicker than ceramic), and uses less fuel (more efficient).

You will note that smoke flavor (lack of) is one of the main issues with all Kamados, its the nature of the beast. There are some work arounds that people who own them do if they want more smoke profile. I believe the efficiency actually reduces the smoke flavor, since it needs to burn very little fuel to maintain low temperatures, and hence produces less smoke and less airflow to move the smoke across the meat.

The WSM, being inefficient has much higher airflow, more smoke from combustion, but also the water bowl. I can't say that the water bowl makes food from the wsm more juicy, but it does make food with more smoke flavor. This is because the smoke flavor sticks to wet food better.
AmazingRibs article on smoke, talks about water on the surface providing smoke a place to stick to.

There is no reason you can't put a water pan in the WSK to increase the smoke flavor, however, I still think the fact that their is less combustion and less airflow, makes it more difficult to achieved a high smoke profile on all Kamados. My experience is that the WSM and kettle consistently produced more smoke flavor.

That being said, the WSK is a fine piece of equipment. I NEVER noticed the food was "less juicy." In fact I found the opposite, it was more difficult to produce overly dry BBQ. I loved the stainless steal internals (last longer, easy to clean) and the much larger cooking surface. Like one of the earlier posters mentioned, kneeling down and bending over to maintain the fire on the WSM is a pain, more so the older I get. This isn't a problem with the WSK. Also, having a table like a performer, invaluable!. Further, if you live in cold climates, you can cook year around, sub 20F, the air insulation is that good (also, you will get a little better smoke profile as more combustion is needed to maintain temps). Lastly, the versatility was great on the WSK, second to none.

At the end of the day, I did find my WSM and Kettle produced more smoke profile, and if you know what you are doing, you can cook just as well on any of the three. Bang for the buck, WSM is hard to beat. But if you want the extras, larger cooking surface, more versatility, stainless steal internals, the WSK is the one for you. These features don't make your food taste better, but they make the process more convenient.

That's my 2 cents worth.
 
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WB Zipf said:
I have cooked on both the WSM and WSK. I was an early adopter of the WSK, bought it when Weber first came out with it back in 2016, at that time it was the Weber Summit Charcoal Grill (WSCG). I sold my WSCG in 2020, not because I wanted to, but Covid lock downs hit me hard (economically), sad story for another place and time.

Anyway, my experience with the WSK was first and for most, it cooks like a Kamado. The difference between it and the ceramic versions are two fold. First it uses air, instead of ceramic, for its insulation. Air is a better insulator than ceramic, so it's more efficient. Air, however, is way worse at heat retention. This allows better recovery if you overshoot your temperature (doesn't retain the heat, cools down quicker than ceramic), and uses less fuel (more efficient).

You will note that smoke flavor (lack of) is one of the main issues with all Kamados, its the nature of the beast. There are some work arounds that people who own them do if they want more smoke profile. I believe the efficiency actually reduces the smoke flavor, since it needs to burn very little fuel to maintain low temperatures, and hence produces less smoke and less airflow to move the smoke across the meat.

The WSM, being inefficient has much higher airflow, more smoke from combustion, but also the water bowl. I can't say that the water bowl makes food from the wsm more juicy, but it does make food with more smoke flavor. This is because the smoke flavor sticks to wet food better.
AmazingRibs article on smoke, talks about water on the surface providing smoke a place to stick to.

There is no reason you can't put a water pan in the WSK to increase the smoke flavor, however, I still think the fact that their is less combustion and less airflow, makes it more difficult to achieved a high smoke profile on all Kamados. My experience is that the WSM and kettle consistently produced more smoke flavor.

That being said, the WSK is a fine piece of equipment. I NEVER noticed the food was "less juicy." In fact I found the opposite, it was more difficult to produce overly dry BBQ. I loved the stainless steal internals (last longer, easy to clean) and the much larger cooking surface. Like one of the earlier posters mentioned, kneeling down and bending over to maintain the fire on the WSM is a pain, more so the older I get. This isn't a problem with the WSK. Also, having a table like a performer, invaluable!. Further, if you live in cold climates, you can cook year around, sub 20F, the air insulation is that good (also, you will get a little better smoke profile as more combustion is needed to maintain temps). Lastly, the versatility was great on the WSK, second to none.

At the end of the day, I did find my WSM and Kettle produced more smoke profile, and if you know what you are doing, you can cook just as well on any of the three. Bang for the buck, WSM is hard to beat. But if you want the extras, larger cooking surface, more versatility, stainless steal internals, the WSK is the one for you. These features don't make your food taste better, but they make the process more convenient.

That's my 2 cents worth.
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That lines up with my understanding and why offsets(even more airflow) produce more smoke flavor at higher running temps. It also acknowledges that kamados are more efficient and require smaller fires to maintain heat. Very well written. Nice work sir.


I've never needed a connected table to my grill. I have a table near it, and usually prefer more space than the limited amount a connected provides for food prep. Since I go that route, using it to set a tray on for taking food off I also a moot point, but for those who love them keep on keeping on. (From a Weber head who runs his WSM down to single digit temps 🙂)
 
Brock Gingery said:
That lines up with my understanding and why offsets(even more airflow) produce more smoke flavor at higher running temps. It also acknowledges that kamados are more efficient and require smaller fires to maintain heat. Very well written. Nice work sir.


I've never needed a connected table to my grill. I have a table near it, and usually prefer more space than the limited amount a connected provides for food prep. Since I go that route, using it to set a tray on for taking food off I also a moot point, but for those who love them keep on keeping on. (From a Weber head who runs his WSM down to single digit temps 🙂)
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Thanks
 
ive done a lot of comparisons between my 22 kettle vs 18 wsm as far as smoke flavor goes and I always lean towards wanting max smoke flavor...and in that case the wsm edged out the kettle and I chalk it up to the fact the fire is closer to the meat in the kettle requiring choking down the airflow more than the wsm. I will also throw this out there, I find an offset to produce a milder but cleaner tasting smoke flavor vs a wsm or kettle...there is a tiny hint of bitterness in the smoke produced in the wsm BUT the offset can be a workout during a long cook which can get old at times
 
I love this conversation on the WSK and WSM. I have both the WSK and the 18" WSM. I find the WSM easier for me to get the best meat, but that might mainly be because I have used it so much more. WSK is less than a year old. Here are where I see the differences:
  1. I always use water in the water pan of the WSM. I have tried using an 18" high wall pizza pan with water elevated on ceramic discs in the WSK, but it just boils off so quickly. I was thinking getting a second rack inside the WSK and putting the water pan on the main grate would help this.
  2. They are both efficient, but the WSK is really super efficient. Especially in wind or rain / snow. I had winter cooks when it was snowing and the WSM couldn't hold temps.
  3. My first LAS on the WSK had very little smoke flavor. I have since adjusted by adding wood through out the coals so it's always smoldering wood flavor. That helped a lot.
  4. The WSK has essentially eliminated my use of my 22" kettle. The WSK does so many things awesome. It's so fantastic using the vortex and air frying chicken, I quit doing the WSM chicken, which was my favorite.
  5. I can put the WSM in van or SUV and take it to my cabin and have great smoked food. Not going to happen with the WSK. I did a brisket for my friends overnight in January of 2023. It was fantastic. Only adjusted vents twice over the entire night.
  6. I have done overnight cooks on the WSK with no adjustment to vents the entire night.
Both are great cookers. I like them both.

Todd
 
Brett-EDH said:
We’re all good. I don’t take much, if anything personally anymore. I’m here for a good time, not a long time.

Carry on and make some good food. Weather is slowly warming up here so I’m looking forward to more grilling and bbq’ing. And wine tasting too.
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Thanks for the input, was wanting to replace my weber kettle and WSM with the Summit komodo, so I would just have 2 grills. Wanted to make sure it was not a stupid idea.
 
David-B said:
ive done a lot of comparisons between my 22 kettle vs 18 wsm as far as smoke flavor goes and I always lean towards wanting max smoke flavor...and in that case the wsm edged out the kettle and I chalk it up to the fact the fire is closer to the meat in the kettle requiring choking down the airflow more than the wsm. I will also throw this out there, I find an offset to produce a milder but cleaner tasting smoke flavor vs a wsm or kettle...there is a tiny hint of bitterness in the smoke produced in the wsm BUT the offset can be a workout during a long cook which can get old at times
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I noticed the same with my Masterbuilt Gravity vs WSM. The MB has much cleaner smoke and way faster than the WSM. I would let the WSM go for about 45 minutes to sometimes an hour for the smoke to lighten up vs about 5-10 minutes with the MB. My wife never complains about the MB smoke when she did sometimes about the WSM.
 
WB Zipf said:
The WSM, being inefficient has much higher airflow, more smoke from combustion, but also the water bowl. I can't say that the water bowl makes food from the wsm more juicy, but it does make food with more smoke flavor. This is because the smoke flavor sticks to wet food better.
AmazingRibs article on smoke, talks about water on the surface providing smoke a place to stick to.
Click to expand...
This is a bit nitpicky, but I don't think the waterbowl helps directly with smoke flavour. Not that it truly matters. If the results are good, then the results are good no matter the actual mechanism.

The article talks about having a wet&cold protein to catch the smoke flavour. While I do agree in the general sense, the article claims that getting a dry piece of protein wet would then let it catch more smoke flavour. This has so far not been my experience, but the issue may be found in the person in front of the cooker, and not the theory presented in the article :D.

IMO for the water to improve the smoke flavour directly, it would have to meaningfully increase the ambient air humidity in the cooker. The dude here did a solid test on an offset smoker and he had basically no change in relative air humidity with a ton of waterpans.

Now, this was an offset smoker, and not a WSM. But I suspect it is a similar story with the WSM.

What the waterpan definitively does is have a constant temperature mass inside the cooker. It also would allow for less efficiency and therefore a hotter burning fuel. I doubt the waterpan helps directly, but an indirect help is a help.
 
Gave my WSM 22 to a friend and I’m glad it still gets used. It wasn’t for me. I had much better results with the SmokeFire, I haven’t had time to smoke anything in the WSK yet but look forward to doing something soon.

I’m hoping to add a dedicated smoker when we move back to the house but I’m unsure on what direction I want to go.
 
Jonas-Switzerland said:
This is a bit nitpicky, but I don't think the waterbowl helps directly with smoke flavour. Not that it truly matters. If the results are good, then the results are good no matter the actual mechanism.

The article talks about having a wet&cold protein to catch the smoke flavour. While I do agree in the general sense, the article claims that getting a dry piece of protein wet would then let it catch more smoke flavour. This has so far not been my experience, but the issue may be found in the person in front of the cooker, and not the theory presented in the article :D.

IMO for the water to improve the smoke flavour directly, it would have to meaningfully increase the ambient air humidity in the cooker. The dude here did a solid test on an offset smoker and he had basically no change in relative air humidity with a ton of waterpans.

Now, this was an offset smoker, and not a WSM. But I suspect it is a similar story with the WSM.

What the waterpan definitively does is have a constant temperature mass inside the cooker. It also would allow for less efficiency and therefore a hotter burning fuel. I doubt the waterpan helps directly, but an indirect help is a help.
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Steve Gow is a good youtuber and he has a good sense of humor that I like.
 
I own both a WSK and a WSM.

I can't do side by side comparisons because I have one at home and the other at a vacation home. ( I have original kettles at both addresses too).

I'm really happy with both of them when it comes to smoking. No cook is identical for me, sometimes they are fantastic other times just really good. So I cannot say I consistently make better food on the one versus the other.

The WSK is more versatile, conveniently doing the job as a smoker and a grill.

I only use the WSM for low and slow. I'm sure I could use the WSM for grilling if I had to. But I don't have to and won't bother because it seems like more work. I'm new to the WSM, and I'm still in shock about how much more charcoal it uses.

The WSK is $1,250, which is eye watering considering I bought the WSM and a kettle and still spend less than I did on the WSK.

OTOH, the WSK is giving me kamado performance for far less than a BGE or KJ.

I'm having fun playing with both!

If somebody is reading this thread because they are making a purchasing decision I say you will get great smoked food either way and you will have a fun time either way. Make your decision on other factors.
 
Out of interest, how does the WSK do with pizza's?

Pizza for me starts at 260C/600F upwards. I considered a kamado cooker, because it gets advertised at as, and forgive me,

Eierlegende Wollmilchsau.

The perfect cooker that can do anything and everything. From the perfect brisket to perfect pizza at over 300C.

There are very few voices which seem to even talk about drawbacks. Like maintaining the heavy lid bolts, the firebox cracking after years because it is ceramic,etc. It was actually by stumbling over the WSK that I heard any negatives of kamado style cookers
 
Jonas-Switzerland said:
Out of interest, how does the WSK do with pizza's?

Pizza for me starts at 260C/600F upwards. I considered a kamado cooker, because it gets advertised at as, and forgive me,

Eierlegende Wollmilchsau.

The perfect cooker that can do anything and everything. From the perfect brisket to perfect pizza at over 300C.

There are very few voices which seem to even talk about drawbacks. Like maintaining the heavy lid bolts, the firebox cracking after years because it is ceramic,etc. It was actually by stumbling over the WSK that I heard any negatives of kamado style cookers
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Brett-EDH

Thread 'Because everybody is doing this at midnight'

8 280g dough balls for Sunday football 🏈 pizza day. Go Niners! Although you’re turning my stomach each game you play.

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  • Haha


Brett-EDH

Thread 'I have 8 balls.'

Of dough. Pizza and wings today for Wildcard Saturday.

Made a 65% hydration recipe. 25% is double ground semolina and 75% 00. Both are Caputo 1kg sacks which work well for home use.

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Notice how smooth my balls are. You really want smooth balls when forming your dough.

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Doing a countertop rise. Ambient temp is 68°

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Bruno said:
Gave my WSM 22 to a friend and I’m glad it still gets used. It wasn’t for me. I had much better results with the SmokeFire, I haven’t had time to smoke anything in the WSK yet but look forward to doing something soon.

I’m hoping to add a dedicated smoker when we move back to the house but I’m unsure on what direction I want to go.
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