Tough Ribs (again)


 
L

Les Stubby

TVWBB Fan
Decided to try my hand at spares again. Fired up the WSM before noon, foiled the water pan with clay saucer beneath and hooked up the maverick to monitor the cooker temperature. I sprinkled the ribs and put them on a bit after noon and kept them on for 6 and one half hours checking at the 4 and 5 hour mark for doneness. The temps held steady around 225 for the entire cook. Our guests arrived and I put the ribs in a 250 oven wrapped in foil while we
did a little drinking.

I pulled them out at dinner time and they were still tough as a cobb. Is there any way they could have needed more time? I've read a lot of the posts on the subject and did the toothpick test, etc. I was determined to have tender ribs without foil.

Any suggestions, insights would be appreciated.

Les Stubby
 
That's a tough one; unless we sit next to you and watch the whole process it's hard to guess what's up. They certainly seemed to cook long enough. You even foiled. Are you using baby/loin back or spares? I find spares to be a little fattier (read: juicier) and easier to get tender.
 
Les... sorry you had a bad experience. Actually I "Q'd" 3 slabs of spares yeaterday and cooked for 5 hours at 225 and it came out very good. I don't foil during the cook, only after. They remained foiled in a "dry" cooler for about 2 hours; during the drive and the Happy Hour"

How heavy and long were each slab? If they were on the heavier side and longer it could have come from an older and tougher hog. I prefer slabs the weigh no more that 2 lbs a piece.
 
Nothing in your post suggests an error, but the problem of diagnosis is always in the low level details. Hard to tell by your description whether they were under or over cooked, but I'm going to guess over done in this case.

So based on the detail you provide:

Have you done a check or calibrated whatever you are using to measure temps?

And finally even if the temps you were reading was off by 25 degrees either way, "measuring for doneness" would have circumvented any temp measurement accuracy IMHO.

So to me, in this case it's when you decided to check for doneness (and then how often after) the first time and how you measure for doneness that we should look at first.

I have actually had spares measure done at 3.5 to 4 hours on occasion for example. They don't always take 5-6 hours. Foiling can accelerator cook time even further for example.

We all know you can hi-temp ribs and still get tender.

How are you checking for done?
 
The slab stretched across the whole 18" smoker-have no idea what it weighed-tried to post a photo of the ribs with no luck.



Checked for doneness by picking up ribs with tongs at one end and also with a toothpick-

Thanks
 
You said the temps held steady at 225 the entire cook. Was this measured at the lid? Some on here have found a big discrepancy between lid and grate temps (my bullet is pretty close), with the grate being much lower than the lid. Maybe your WSM has this issue and you were cooking at a much lower temp than you thought, leading to them being underdone...Just a thought.

You could try shooting for a target temp of 250-270 next time. Good luck!!

Edit: After rereading your post again I see you used a Maverick so it was probably grate temps. Ooops! You could still try to bump up the temps and see what that does for your ribs.
 
6.5 hrs. may not have been long enough at 225 for the size of the racks. Did you try 1 before you foiled them and put them in the oven? Perhaps foil and put back in the cooker rather than the oven would make a difference. Better yet, foil and add a little apple juice before sealing them up. Next time you could try foiling (with apple juice or BBQ sauce)during the cook (the 3-2-1 method) and see how that works out.
 
Les, I always go by lid temp. I cook my ribs at around 260. My St. Louis spares take anywhere from 4 1/2 to 6 hrs. BUT, Time is irrelevant compared to "are they done". Take a toothpick and try insert between a couple of the middle ribs. Should go through like a hot knife through butter. When you pick the ribs up try to tear the center ribs apart .Does it tear easily? Pick the whole slab up with tongs .Does the slab bend over on itself almost tearing? If you an answer yes to these questions your done. If not back on the smoker or wrap in foil and continue to cook.
 
If 225 is the dome temp then that's not hot enough because it will be 15-20 degrees cooler at the top grate.
I normally don't but when I foil if I'm short on time I put a little apple juice in with it.
 
Lee, were you using the term in the lid of the WSm? They are known to be low by a lot so you may have been cooking at a much lower temp than you thought which led to them not being done.
 
Les, were these St. Louis spares, or did you leave the tips on? IMO, spares will smoke more evenly with the tips removed. If you try to get whole racks of spares to the real tender stage, the ends and bone ends can end up drying out to some extent.

Actually, tenderness with juiciness is the challenge with St. Louis spares as well, and the remedies are one or a combination of: using foil, cooking REAL low (sub 225), or finding those hard to find "3.5 lb and unders".

The only times so far that I've really been happy with my ribs have been with a 215 degree target cooked as steady as I could, left flat the whole time with bone side down and never wrapped in foil, and spritzing with apple juice every 20 something minutes or so. Everytime, these racks were less than 4 pounds each before I trimmed them and cut the tips off per St. Louis style, and I doubt I ever took any off before 6 hours smoking low and spritzing like this. I've tried changing certain things I mentioned for the sake of convenience, but so far, every time, my ribs would end up starting to dry out before they got tender. That's my story, at least.
 
Thanks all for your help-back to the drawing board. What I need to do is buy about ten racks and do them til I get it right.
Thanks again- Great board.

Les Stubby
 
This may sound a bit silly, but if you have any question about doneness - just how much resistance is there supposed to be to that toothpick or tearing or whatever method you use - there's nothing wrong with just, you know, eating one in the middle and seeing if it's good. :) Just to get a feel for it for next time.

If you cook multiple slabs you can also do things like leaving a couple of them on a little longer and seeing if they get better or worse.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> What I need to do is buy about ten racks and do them til I get it right.
Thanks again- Great board.

Les Stubby </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just bump up the temp to 250, and the you'll get it done in one rack, easy peasy....lol. You wont have to foil or anything....Good luck.
 
Les

Honestly, I think you did them ribs right. Spares seem to always take 5.5 to 6 hours at 225 lid. They should have been plenty soft after 6.5 hours.

You said they were tough. Were they dry? you can overcook 'em. I did that once when I tried a higher temp rib cook (not recommended)! I don't think that was the case here, unless your thermometer was badly off and you cooked at a much higher heat.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Les Stubby:
Our guests arrived and I put the ribs in a 250 oven wrapped in foil while we did a little drinking.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do we know how much time lapsed here????
 
Jerry

My first answer would be 'obviously not enough' but it was probably an hour or so. Think I'll bump up the temp and try again.

LES

PS-Thought since I've finally figured out how to post photos I'd try it here.

Ribs before cook
DSCN3005.JPG


Backyard
DSCN3006.JPG


Helper
DSCN3009.JPG


Sorry about the bad photos-just wanted to see if I could do it. Maybe next time it will be a successful cook.
 
It seems to me like you might have overcooked them. If they were done when you put them in the oven then the 250 oven temp. will continue to cook them. If my ribs are finished before we are ready to eat I wrap them in foil and then newspaper and put them in a cooler. They will stay hot for hours without overcooking them. When I use an oven to keep things warm I usually put the temperature at 175-180.
 
Les, We could guess forever if they were under cooked or over cooked so... I ask you this question. Did the meat pull clean from the bone with little to no resistance, or did the meat stay attached to the bone. If the former, over cooked, if the latter, under cooked.
 
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