Should my stainless grill / flavorizer bars look like this after 1.5 years?

[Jon Tofte]

Thars not true of the new genesis II. I didn't test the internals but the external stainless parts are all non magnetic. And pretty robust in my opinion. I would bet the internal parts are good quality stainless too.

That’s a pretty notable observation. Chinese or not, private equity sharks or not, at least give the designers credit for using better stainless and improving the cart. I don’t like the made in China and have had my own bad experience with private equity buying out my employer, but I do appreciate the positive improvements.

 

[LMichaels]

I have not bothered to put a magnet on one. I am simply so disheartened with Weber I never bothered especially since if I spend THAT kind of coin it darn sure better have been made by American hands (or at least on this continent) i.e. Napoleon or such. Sick of seeing the US balance sheet going to China

 

[Greg M]

304 is definitely non magnetic. Weber used to use it but now they've gone el cheapo all the way. I'll bet it won't be too long before they go to powder coating everything instead of porcelain too AND increase the price to boot

That’s a pretty notable observation. Chinese or not, private equity sharks or not, at least give the designers credit for using better stainless and improving the cart. I don’t like the made in China and have had my own bad experience with private equity buying out my employer, but I do appreciate the positive improvements.

I agree. I wish weber products were still made in the USA too. But Chinese made products can be good quality and IMO the new genesis II looks very well made. Light years ahead of any char broil, kenmore, members mark, etc. Of course the price is higher but it would likely last many years longer.

 

[Jon Tofte]

I have not bothered to put a magnet on one. I am simply so disheartened with Weber I never bothered especially since if I spend THAT kind of coin it darn sure better have been made by American hands (or at least on this continent) i.e. Napoleon or such. Sick of seeing the US balance sheet going to China

Larry, I do sincerely admire your principles. I hate to see our country turning into smart phone operators that consume but make nothing ourselves. I do think a manufacturer of grills trying to make it work here in the US does have a pretty uphill fight anymore. People vote with their pocketbooks. When Home Depot, Lowes and Menards started mowing down the small hardware and appliance stores around the country there was an outcry to support your local hardware stores. I remember one old-time hardware store that tried extra hard to carry unusual items and differentiate themselves from the big box monsters. I think those lamenting the change and pushing against it were sincere. But, alas, these stores are sadly mostly a thing of the past and the particular store I mentioned didn't make it either. People SAID they wanted the hometown small hardware store, but they took their $ to Home Depot.

I am afraid that grills are similar. Serious fanatics like us would probably reward Weber for keeping US production, but most of the general public buyers I don't think would. I don't have affection for, or confidence in, private equity, but I have to wonder if the family owners of Weber saw the handwriting on the wall and felt that they could not hope to remain competitive. Too many buyers will be swayed by the huge, but tinny "stainless" HereTodayGoneTomorrow grills on display at the big box retailers and wouldn't see the value in the classic old Genesis we all love. I don't have any inside knowledge, and it may be nothing more than the pure greed on the part of Weber's new owners to which you attribute their actions.

I guess I would say one last time to at least give the designers (who I would believe DO work in the US) credit for addressing some of the short-comings of the last generation of Genesis grills. I haven't personally conducted the magnet test on the new Genesis II grills, but I have done it on the "all stainless" S-310 (2011-2106 model) and it failed miserably, even the hood. If they switched to better stainless, brought back the open cart, and even used what appears to be better frame design (ala the old Platinum II), then I think the people who designed it and talked the bean counter, private equity money grubbers into approving these changes are deserving of our appreciation. Of course, just my opinion...

Jon

 

[LMichaels]

I agree. I wish weber products were still made in the USA too. But Chinese made products can be good quality and IMO the new genesis II looks very well made. Light years ahead of any char broil, kenmore, members mark, etc. Of course the price is higher but it would likely last many years longer.

I'm sorry I do not see a light years better product. We've gone around on this before. At the prices Weber was commanding they could have kept production here rather than Chinese slave camps. Or at the very least they should have SUBSTANTIALLY reduced the price. But noooo they are going exactly the way Charbroil, and Charmglow did. They were the real pioneers of high quality well made gas grills that were simple, easy to maintain and just plain worked. But to their credit they at least reduced the price of the products appropriate to the Chinese production. Weber has not. And seriously I don't think the new cart is an upgrade IMO it's a downgrade. I like having an enclosed cabinet for my accessories and such. And I don't call a few sheets of 304SS that much of an "upgrade" either. At their prices that entire grill should be 304SS including the frame. And honestly I don't see that much )or at least a price appropriate difference between the box store stuff you quoted. They could cut their prices by a full 1/3rd and still make twice the profit per unit they were before. Admittedly the way they treated me with my Summit issue left a REAL sour taste in my mouth for them as a company but their latest shenanigans completely ruined it for me with them as a company. Add to that I could walk into a Sam's Club buy a VERY well made all stainless (and again Sam's advertised it as solid high quality non-magnetic) for $500 with a LIFETIME guarantee and simply replace it for free every 5 years or whatever I decide instead of buying maintenance parts and so on. To me a much wiser use of my hard earned retired $$$$

 

[Greg M]

Yeah we've been to this rodeo before. It just gets really tiresome that every single time someone mentions one of the new Webers you slam them down. You offer no objective evidence that they aren't well made. You just go off on the "made in China shtick". It just gets old. You don't like the open cart? Fine but that doesn't mean the cart on the new Weber isn't well made or that lots of people don't like or even prefer them. If you look at that new grill objectively it's really not made much differently than our beloved vintage genesis 1000's and B's. And the $699 price is not cheap but considering what the vintage genesis cost in their day it's really not out of line at all for a comparable grill given inflation. Neither of us knows if the new grills will stand the test of time like the old vintage webers. You think not. I think they will. Time will tell.

Regarding the Sam's grill - you know the grill itself is only guaranteed a year by the manufacturer right? There's likely a good reason for that. Yes Sam's has a "lifetime satisfaction guaranty" but you know that isn't always honored? I know multiple people that have tried to return things several years after purchase and been told that the guaranty isn't like a warranty and they didn't honor it because in Sam's opinion the purchaser had gotten a reasonable service life from the product.

 

[LMichaels]

I have never seen Sam's or Costco back down on their warranties ever. I have never known anyone either who have used them to be dissatisfied either. Their only caveat (at least in Sam's case since I am not a Costco member myself) is that you have the original purchase receipt. Not really too much to ask IMO. I'll also add that IMO (given how I was screwed by Weber) that I'll put more faith in them keeping their promise/warranty than Weber will. But hey, if you're happy over paying for a "name" which IMO is all it is now than great. I am not. I'll continue to heap praise on the older products which imo are better products though. Witness I just bought another. Sure it was a whopping good deal but I would have given more for it. In any case my gripes with Weber are NOT SCHTICK they are true concerns about what was once a great company with a great product (like so many others).

 

[Greg M]

Maybe your Sam's clubs are more equitable regarding their warranty than the ones in SW MO? But the fact is that here they refused to take back a mattress with the receipt and same thing regarding a computer. Anecdotal evidence? Sure but it happened.

It's just amazing to me that anyone would truly believe a grill from a sams club would perform as well and last as long as one from a dedicated grillcompany like weber. Chinese made or not. But hey you're entitled to that opinion. And I'm entitled to refute it.

The truth is no big company like weber, Sam's, etc is pristine in regards to customer relations. They all have black eyes now and in the past. Once you've been screwed over by a company you tend to think that company is totally bad and dishonest. That is human nature but it isn't always true.

 

[Bruce]

Greg, I agree. That is why you hear "The customer is always right". If a customer feels shorted, right or not, they will likely cease doing business with that outfit and worse, will voice their opinions to other consumers. Likewise, a positive resolution to a problem and maybe even unexpected one will earn a customer for life and positive recommendations to other consumers.

Weber had carved out a market for grills that were not "throw away" grills from the early 90's through first decade of the 2000's. I just think that Weber began to feel pressure from the "throw away" grill market and felt the need to reduce manufacturing costs through lower labor costs and materials costs. They did this to keep their prices down to regain some of the market they were losing as well as to keep the cost vs price at a point to maximize profit.

I think this was a mistake. Weber should have continued to concentrate in the market they were so good at. It seems like they started to cheapen their line on one end to gain back some of the "disposable grill" $200 - $300 market and then pivoted to fancy looking upper end grills on the other end that cost way more than the average middle class consumer could afford. They literally vacated the market they had dominated for 20 plus years.

In a way, I think they had little choice. People could by an off brand grill that would put out the same BTU's and do basically the same thing that a Weber grill costing twice as much could do. The problem is, the cheap construction and materials led to those grills needing new parts two or three years later, likely costing as much as a new "throw away" grill. But, the consumer wasn't looking at that when they saw the two grills side by side at Home Depot with two hugely different price tags. Then, when it was time to put some money into the grill, they either found they couldn't get parts for the throw away grill or they realized that for another $50, they could skip the hassle and cleaning involved and just get another throw away. And there in lies the problem. Too many consumers want the bells and whistles but are not willing to maintain the grills. They go for the disposable grill and simply plan on a new one every few years. The thought of replacing burners and flavorizer bars is not even considered. I suspect there are a lot of grills out there that have never had the flavorizer bars or even grill grates physically removed from their grills in two or three years. I have picked up Weber E310's where the guy said he just wanted it gone and didn't want to deal with "fixing" it. Just needs some flavor bars and burners and if he had just done minimal maintenance would probably still be in great working shape.

 

[LMichaels]

"But the fact is that here they refused to take back a mattress with the receipt and same thing regarding a computer. Anecdotal evidence? Sure but it happened. "

Did the computer and mattress have a lifetime warranty? I think not. Heck I even returned a set of TIRES and got FULL refund on them after using them for 60000 miles! I thought it was a mistake. I even told the service agent this. She told me, "these tires had no upper mileage limit and were essentially guaranteed for the life of the car" They were Michelin sold through Sam's and when I looked at my paper work she was right. No upper mile limit. I don't know if they still have this but they sure surprised me. I had an older version of a Sam's grill a number of years ago also made by Grand Hall. When I had a bit of a hard time getting a couple replacement parts I went in to Sam's 2 years later and asked if they could help me find a source. They simply said if I have the receipt to bring it back and they'd refund my money. And the did! Every last cent. Because it had a lifetime warranty. No BS of "well you got good use yadiyada. Boom every last cent in my hand. Unlike good old Weber who left me high and dry with a rusted out $1500 grill UNDER THEIR WARRANTY and nothing but a "too bad so sad" hey we'll give you a discount on a new one. Well even with their discount it was still even more than I could have simply gone out and bought it for! Sorry but once burned twice shy.

 

[Jon Tofte]

Bruce, I think you are dead on right. When the original Genesis came out, it was more expensive but also looked much more substantial than the super cheapo rickety one-burner junkers that were on sale next to them back then. As time went by, though, the off-brand competitors realized they could outsource production to China and bring in what appeared to be very impressive "all stainless" grills with multiple burners and a lot of flash. And they could sell them for less - sometimes a good bit less - than a Weber Genesis. I think the Genesis Gold, with its stainless hood and more modern appearance, was a first attempt to stave off this tidal wave. Then the Genesis 300, bigger and with more stainless (and perhaps less quality - at least with the painted steel cart enclosure). Still, the price differential is probably too much for a lot of average buyers. I do agree that many just expect grills to clean themselves and when they get gunked up and a little rusty it is time for a new one. I am a little bit glad for that because I have picked up some really good deals as a result!

I wish the Genesis II would be made outside of Chicago like it should, but as I have said a few times, I do appreciate the positive changes I see in its design features. I was just looking at an old Platinum II on OfferUp. (Asking $500 but must say it appears to be a time-warp in excellent condition.) Anyway, the cart on the old Platinum II has what sure looks to me to be an almost identical vertical frame design as the new Genesis II. If it is true that they upgraded to 304SS, then I think it looks like a genuine improvement in design. Like Greg said, time will tell about the durability. If I was rich, though, I would be happy to be a guinea pig and give a serious look at the 4-burner special edition in black or maybe buy the LX black version and remove the doors, side and back pieces.

Jon

 

[Greg M]

Bruce and Jon - great points and I agree.

Jon I'm seriously considering next summer picking up a 3 burner genesis II. I would like to have it to alternate use with my Dad's old 1000. I would have to get rid of my genesis A though so that's kind of a tough decision.

I guess I'm kind of protective of Weber because they have treated me so well. When I was refurbing my genesis 1000 (2 years ago) I called them multiple times and they were over the top helpful. Several parts they had to hunt down for me. They even let me register the grill which is 20+ years old. How many companies would put forth that kind of effort for a product that old?

 

[Jon Tofte]

Bruce and Jon - great points and I agree.

Jon I'm seriously considering next summer picking up a 3 burner genesis II. I would like to have it to alternate use with my Dad's old 1000. I would have to get rid of my genesis A though so that's kind of a tough decision.

I guess I'm kind of protective of Weber because they have treated me so well. When I was refurbing my genesis 1000 (2 years ago) I called them multiple times and they were over the top helpful. Several parts they had to hunt down for me. They even let me register the grill which is 20+ years old. How many companies would put forth that kind of effort for a product that old?

Greg,

That would be great! I think it would be beneficial to us all to have some members post about REAL EXPERIENCE with a Genesis II. I have recently purchased the product "Everbrite" and I think it would be a prudent thing to treat all the stainless with that, 304 or not. Also, a good coat of wax every so often on the steel frame would probably be a big help. One last idea would be to consider changing out the casters for another set of regular wheels, making sure the bottoms of the frame drain easily. I have found that even our classic Genesis frames go south down here on the legs with casters because the water and moisture collect and can't drain. The legs with regular wheels on the old Genesis (which as you know are open on the bottom) seldom have more than a little surface rust -even in our salt air. I think bringing back regular wheels is yet another improvement compared to the 2008-2016 Genesis models with their 4 casters - a poor design in my view and experience.

I agree with you that in spite of China production, private equity monsters, etc. that Weber is still one of the best choices. I haven't seen or tried a Napoleon, and most of the other quality alternatives are priced way out of my league. So, in spite of short-comings, I still recommend Weber grills to friends. I do offer the suggestions I put above to help them get a good long service life out of them.

I am hoping to see a Red Kettle Special Edition today. They are FINALLY showing up at stores here in my area. I have followed the back and forth on those, but without seeing and touching in person, I haven't been in a position to give my own opinion.

HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND GREAT HOLIDAY SEASON

Jon

 

[LMichaels]

Just drill drain holes. Allows you to keep casters making the grill easier to move around. Also shoot some rust proofing into the legs. This is what I do. I use a product like this https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...ts-19574/hd-corrosion-inhibitor/06026/4176050 and it works great. It sprays in as a penetrating liquid and penetrates seams and so on. Unlike a tar or heavy wax it does not trap moisture it actually will displace moisture. I spray it into the door seams on my cars (provided there is no rust to begin with otherwise I use the Eastwood products I so often mention). It's a great product type to prevent rust. Once it penetrates it ceases flowing and will stay put. It works great also AFTER a rust repair to prevent further corrosion.

 

[RichF]

Thars not true of the new genesis II. I didn't test the internals but the external stainless parts are all non magnetic. And pretty robust in my opinion. I would bet the internal parts are good quality stainless too.

I was at Home Depot today and checked out the new Genesis LX S-340 grill. The heat shields, flavorizer bars and grates are all the cheap stainless and are magnetic.

I think Weber is really shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. Why wouldn't they simply spend an extra $5 - $10 using the better grade stainless (like they used to use) and market the fact that they use better SS than their competitors? They need to differentiate their product and educate consumers as to why their stainless is better and how it will last longer. In the mid-tier and premium tier segments, people are willing to spend more if they see the added value of the better componentry.

I also found it interesting that you now have to go all the way up to the Summit line to get a searing station.

What will happen to Weber's reputation if the Genesis and Summit grills, which start at $1,000 and go up quickly from there, have their internals rust to pieces within a couple of years like happened to mine? Sure - they can replace those parts like they did for me but it still tarnishes their reputation and I don't like the thought of having to call back every couple years needing replacement grates.

As an aside, my top stainless warming rack - which I never used - is also very badly rusted and needs replacement. I don't think I could clean it up with a powered brush it's so bad. Weber is replacing everything else but I'll have to get back to them to get that replaced as well. I wonder if I simply had part of a bad batch of stainless or are other peoples internals also going bad this quickly. In the 1.5 years I've had the grill, I've also had to replace the valves (one was bent causing the knob to grind against the external finish scratching it) and the burner tubes. I've spent a lot of time fixing this essentially new grill whereas my old Weber went nearly 20 years without needing a thing.

I didn't know stainless could rust this bad:

 

[Bruce]

I think Weber is already taking a hit on their reputation. I think it has been going on for nearly a decade. Certainly within the last few.
Most consumers are uneducated and impulsive these days. The walk in, look at the grills, look at the price tags, look at the list of features and choose. They don't do any real research. SS is SS to most folks. If you say you use better SS than the next guy, they chalk it up to being partisan. SS is SS after all. Our hoods are porcelain coated and theirs is painted. What? they both are nice and shiny, who cares. We have SS burners, heat shields, flavorizer bars and cooking grates. Who cares? theirs is $300 cheaper and it will turn an 8 pound prime rib roast into a lump of charcoal just as easily and fast as the grill that costs double.

It used to be that people walked into a store and went straight to the Webers and never so much as considered or even looked at a Charbroil, Kenmore, One Grill, Nexgrill, etc.... But, I just don't think Weber has that "better than the rest" or "Cadillac of grills" reputation like it used to. Add to that the competition from the low cost Chinese built "throw away" grills and also increased competition in the Luxury market and Weber is having trouble standing out. And, I don't think putting on or adding more bling and useless accessories is the answer, any more than going with cheap overseas labor and inferior materials. It just adds to the loss of their reputation...they are becoming just another grill company.

 

[Bruce]

As an aside, my top stainless warming rack - which I never used - is also very badly rusted and needs replacement. I don't think I could clean it up with a powered brush it's so bad. Weber is replacing everything else but I'll have to get back to them to get that replaced as well. I wonder if I simply had part of a bad batch of stainless or are other peoples internals also going bad this quickly. In the 1.5 years I've had the grill, I've also had to replace the valves (one was bent causing the knob to grind against the external finish scratching it) and the burner tubes. I've spent a lot of time fixing this essentially new grill whereas my old Weber went nearly 20 years without needing a thing.

I didn't know stainless could rust this bad:

Those warming racks are very commonly like that. I am not sure of the cause. Every grill I have acquired for rehab that still has the warming racks has the warming racks looking like that...although they are much older than yours. I think it is either some very low grade SS steel or maybe, like you say, it is never used. It surely gets the heat and some of the cook grease on it, but since you don't use it, you dont clean it. Eventually, the heat and contaminants will degrade it. New ones are less than $15.

I don't think most owners bother replacing them after they rot out. Or they just take them out and never put them back and eventually lose them. In my experience, they get in the way on 9/10 of my cooks which requires me taking it out and finding a place to hide it. Many "hide" them and never find them again. But, yah, on a newer grill, I would probably want one, just because it is supposed to have one (that isn't rusted away).

 

[JKim in MA]

I don't think the warming racks have been offered in stainless.

Rivers Edge sells aftermarket stainless ones on Amazon, search for:

"Weber-Like Warming Rack 7512" -> Silver A
"Weber-Like Warming Rack 7513" -> Silver B

I have purchased one of each and they are pretty nice, way better than the Weber ones.

 

[Greg M]

Well that's disappointing that the internals aren't higher grade stainless like the external parts. You could always replace those internal parts with aftermarket stainless like from rcplanebuyer. I would probably do that anyway but you shouldn't have to do that for a number of years. As far as the warming rack Jkim is right in that those were never stainless on any weber even the early models. They are chromed steel. And have always been rust prone.

I do know 400 grade stainless works ok if it's thick enough for the flavorizers . Not sure about the grates? Definitely seems like a poor decision. They would be better off charging 50 or even 100 bucks more and using 300 series stainless.

 

[LMichaels]

I'm staying outta this one now. I've said my peace on it. BTW those warming racks were the first things I took out of my grill when I brought it home new. Basically useless and in the way. My Summit 450 though still has it's warming rack. It is 300 series SS and it's up nice and high outta the way and I actually do use it a lot