Question About Smoking Ribs, and Chicken, also question about thermometer on WSM 18.5

[SMalki]

This is my first post here, found out about this site from instagram. Was wondering if I can get some pointers from experienced BBQ pitmasters.

I recently bought a Weber Smokey Mountain and did 2 cooks on it. I have done a lot of bbq'ing, but these are my first times smoking meat, i used to use the oven and weber regular bbq in combination for certain things. On the smoker The first cook I did was chicken breasts (boneless, wrapped in bacon because I wanted to season the grill), chicken wings, and 2 steaks. Everything was rubbed with a bbq rub before hand. It all came out pretty good, slightly over smokey, and pretty tender. I've had more tender chicken at my local bbq joint (Everett and Jones BBQ in Berkeley, CA) but the steaks came out great. Everything cooked in about 3 hrs some a little sooner some a little longer. Temps were around 250 whole time

The second cook I did baby back ribs and boneless chicken breasts again (cleaning out freezer). This time I brined the chicken. Chicken actually seemed to come out less juicy even though I cooked it to temp perfectly (about 2-3 hrs cook time). Does the brine actually take away from the juicyness. Smoker was at good temp the whole time 225-250. I'm still a little confused about the baby back ribs too thats my main question. They tasted slightly undercooked or overcooked (can't tell) and didnt fall off the bone, although i used a thermometer on them they were around 165 170, same temp as chicken and looked perfectly cooked. So i took them off because I didn't want to overcook them. It was around 2-3 hrs and i never like to cook ribs like that. Im suprised they cooked that fast. I usually do them in the oven at 225 for about 4 hrs then finish on the bbq for some flavor, when i do that they fall off the bone easy, but that was before i bought my weber smokey mountain. Now that I got a smoker I want to do authentic ribs, but I was dissapointed with the tenderness! Funny thing is today I heated them up in the oven for about 30 min (had some leftover) and they got a lot more tender, and were really good. Whole house had that aroma of smoked meat smelled so much better than regular bbq.

Now that I have done 2 smokes, my smoker is somewhat seasoned (i think i can get it slightly more seasoned). How come my ribs came out like that? What is the best way to cook baby backs should I just go off tenderness and not use a meat thermometer? Also any pointers on st louis style spare ribs? As far as the boneless chicken I know you aren't supposed to smoke that, I just wanted to get rid of it so I can buy some bone in chicken, or a whole bird. Any pointers on smoking chicken?

Last but not least is that thermometer on the weber grill accurate? I kept temps around 225 250 by regulating the vents and Ive done a lot of studying before attempting any smoking. It was pretty easy. But i'm not sure if i'm still cooking too hot. Should I buy a probe thermometer for more accurate temps @ grill level, and which one would you guys reccommend?

Heres a few photos of my food Thanks

this pic is when i first got the smoker and tried to burn off any internal coating before cooking on it tried to run it hot as possible so don't go off this pic as how i run my smoker

By the way I used kingston charcol as the fuel, 1st time was competeition briquettes, 2nd time was normal briquettes. the first smoke i just watched a tutorial from weber on youtube on how to light the fire, i put a whole chimney of unlit charcol in the bottom, then poured half a chimney of lit charcol over it, and a few hickory chunks. 2nd smoke i tried to use the "minion" method. Pretty much did the same thing as the first time but i tried to keep all the lit charcol poured straight into the middle so the temps could be lower, 2nd time i used less hickory chunks (about 4 small pieces). I also used a full water bowl each time.

On the 1st smoke I f'd up because I tried to run it hot at first to burn off any checmicals inside the smoker, then i couldn't get it back down without taking all the charcol out and putting it back in slowly. by that time even the unlit charcol turned mostly white and most of the wood was burned. Food came out better overall the 1st time though. The second time i felt like I did the charcol just right because I learned my lesson from the 1st time, I was getting that thin blue smoke, i left for about 1 1/2 hours and let the meat cook unattended. When I came back the meat was just ready, but i didnt notice any smoke coming out, although the temp was dead on 250. I was shooting for 225 though, not sure if that 25 degrees made a huge difference as to why the ribs came out like that. Both days were about the same around 75 degrees and not much wind. Perfect BBQ weather. So if you have any pointers on smoking please let me know

Also please let me know what temps to pull the meat off the grill @. For Ribs, Chicken breast, Chicken wings, whole chicken, Pulled pork and Tri Tip, steaks too. Should I go to exactly 165 170, pull chicken a little early, or cook it a little longer im still unsure of how exactly to get that premium smoked bbq meat

 

[Frank H]

Wow. Massive post. Almost couldn't find the questions. Long story short , you undercooked those ribs. 165 is way too low for ribs. Get yourself a temp guide for BBQ. But offhand I take my ribs to 195 or so. BUT , having said that , you cook most BBQ to tenderness , not temp. Temp is a good guide but you have to use a probe to judge tenderness. Use the search function on this forum and read up on ribs.
Now , chicken is another matter. I cook chicken real hot and fast because I like crispy skin.. 350 at least. ( and the therm in the lid of my WSM is accurate enough for me) and I take chicken to 165 for boneless and 170-175 for bone in. Again: get yourself a good temp guide. Amazing ribs.com has an excellent one on their website.
keep trying and read up on BBQ and the WSM and you will get better at using it. Good luck , brother.

 

[Darren C.]

I think Frank summed up my sentiments pretty well. I had the same question about temps vs. tenderness. My take away was that tough meats like ribs and brisket have to be cooked to tenderness. Tender meats like loin and chicken are cooked to temp. That's how I view it, anyway.

I know most won't agree with me. But, I think the lid thermometer is close enough. If nothing else, it's probably at least consistent. So, once you get used to whatever number it shows, I think you can just go by the lid. However, in my experience, the temp at the lid does seem to vary wildly from the grate. I don't know if that was due to the thermometer I was using, the placement of it or what. But, at first, the lid seemed to be warmer by 25 F or so. Then, later in the cook, it seems to swap and become 25 F cooler.

I think Frank nailed your rib problem though. I cook spares (usually St Louis style) and cook them 5-6 hrs and never check their temp. I try to keep the temp at 225. But, I think you'd probably be successful at 250 and maybe 4-5 hrs. You seemed to have good results cooking them indoors at longer times. Then, you cooked them for less time outdoors and expected the same results in tenderness.

Another suggestion or two, I'd use less wood. It's a matter of personal preference. But, I like 2 - 4 pieces of milder wood like Apple. Don't worry if you can't see smoke bellowing out later. Sometimes I have to stare hard to see the smoke. And, I'm never short on smoke flavor. Under smoking tastes better than over smoking, IMHO.

Finally, if you are cooking all of those dissimilar meats at the same time, I'd suggest not doing that, at least not at first.

HTH

 

[Bob Ivey]

First, welcome to the forum. There a lot of good people here to both share and help. As Darren C. Stated, don't cook dissimilar meats at the same time. Not only do they want different temps buy with poultry you run the risk of cross contamination. That is why I won't cook any poultry at the same time as beef or pork. That's just my bias but I would rather be sake than sick. Good luck with your future cooks.

 

[Keith R]

Welcome. Man that WSM looks shiney and new. Awesome.

I am not sure I have much to add except I wanted to welcome you to the board.

 

[Matt H.]

agree with the prior posts. you undercooked the ribs. I've found thermometers for ribs to be somewhat unreliable. google finding out how ribs are done. i know chris has an article somewhere, but i can't find it. he definitely has an article when to take off other types of meat!

i have a maverick and love it. the main benefit to me is not having to go outside and check the WSM temp. the lid temp is off from the grate temp, but many use it and have no problems.

oh and go bears!

 

[SMalki]

Welcome. Man that WSM looks shiney and new. Awesome.

I am not sure I have much to add except I wanted to welcome you to the board.

Thanks!

Wow. Massive post. Almost couldn't find the questions. Long story short , you undercooked those ribs. 165 is way too low for ribs. Get yourself a temp guide for BBQ. But offhand I take my ribs to 195 or so. BUT , having said that , you cook most BBQ to tenderness , not temp. Temp is a good guide but you have to use a probe to judge tenderness. Use the search function on this forum and read up on ribs.
Now , chicken is another matter. I cook chicken real hot and fast because I like crispy skin.. 350 at least. ( and the therm in the lid of my WSM is accurate enough for me) and I take chicken to 165 for boneless and 170-175 for bone in. Again: get yourself a good temp guide. Amazing ribs.com has an excellent one on their website.
keep trying and read up on BBQ and the WSM and you will get better at using it. Good luck , brother.

Thanks a lot for this post! Yeah I see what you mean now. I'll get the temp chart from amazingribs.com and Give the ribs another try. when they hit 195 ill check em for tenderness, doesn't sound too hard now! I should get it right this time!

I think Frank summed up my sentiments pretty well. I had the same question about temps vs. tenderness. My take away was that tough meats like ribs and brisket have to be cooked to tenderness. Tender meats like loin and chicken are cooked to temp. That's how I view it, anyway.

I know most won't agree with me. But, I think the lid thermometer is close enough. If nothing else, it's probably at least consistent. So, once you get used to whatever number it shows, I think you can just go by the lid. However, in my experience, the temp at the lid does seem to vary wildly from the grate. I don't know if that was due to the thermometer I was using, the placement of it or what. But, at first, the lid seemed to be warmer by 25 F or so. Then, later in the cook, it seems to swap and become 25 F cooler.

I think Frank nailed your rib problem though. I cook spares (usually St Louis style) and cook them 5-6 hrs and never check their temp. I try to keep the temp at 225. But, I think you'd probably be successful at 250 and maybe 4-5 hrs. You seemed to have good results cooking them indoors at longer times. Then, you cooked them for less time outdoors and expected the same results in tenderness.

Another suggestion or two, I'd use less wood. It's a matter of personal preference. But, I like 2 - 4 pieces of milder wood like Apple. Don't worry if you can't see smoke bellowing out later. Sometimes I have to stare hard to see the smoke. And, I'm never short on smoke flavor. Under smoking tastes better than over smoking, IMHO.

Finally, if you are cooking all of those dissimilar meats at the same time, I'd suggest not doing that, at least not at first.

HTH

OK I'll try to avoid cooking different meats at once. Thanks for the info on the Thermometer. I guess I won't be buying one then! As long as the built in one is fairly accurate within 20-25 degrees thats ok with me. I'll look into using less wood, yeah. I tried to just mimic the guy on the weber tutorial put about the same amount as him, i''ll try about 3 chunks next time.

As far as cooking the ribs indoors vs outdoors. when i cook em in the oven, i never check the temp i just go off how tender it is. This was the first time i ever took the temperature on ribs because I was unsure how to do it on the smoker. Thats why i was confused they were at 165 in about 2-3 hrs, im like this is way too early, Now i know!

agree with the prior posts. you undercooked the ribs. I've found thermometers for ribs to be somewhat unreliable. google finding out how ribs are done. i know chris has an article somewhere, but i can't find it. he definitely has an article when to take off other types of meat!

i have a maverick and love it. the main benefit to me is not having to go outside and check the WSM temp. the lid temp is off from the grate temp, but many use it and have no problems.

oh and go bears!

Thanks!

 

[SMalki]

Another quick question about ribs. How do you guys feel about wrapping the ribs halfway through the cook, maybe after 2 or 3 hrs and cooking them wrapped for the last hour? Does that make them more tender or does it matter @ all. I know people usually wrap them because they want a certain color on the meat and dont want them to get black, but I noticed sometimes when You wrap the meat it gets more tender. Does this make a difference on ribs at all?

Thanks,

And by the way, how to get the fall off the bone chicken, anyone know?

 

[Frank H]

Another quick question about ribs. How do you guys feel about wrapping the ribs halfway through the cook, maybe after 2 or 3 hrs and cooking them wrapped for the last hour? Does that make them more tender or does it matter @ all. I know people usually wrap them because they want a certain color on the meat and dont want them to get black, but I noticed sometimes when You wrap the meat it gets more tender. Does this make a difference on ribs at all? Foiling or wrapping meat is another one of those subjects on which there are a ton of opinions and they are all right. Depends on how you like your Q.
Thanks,

And by the way, how to get the fall off the bone chicken, anyone know?

if you cook a whole chicken at 225 until it hits 175 or so IT it will usually fall apart nicely. Just be prepared to throw the skin away because it'll most likely be over smoked and rubbery....but the meat will be wonderful.

 

[SMalki]

if you cook a whole chicken at 225 until it hits 175 or so IT it will usually fall apart nicely. Just be prepared to throw the skin away because it'll most likely be over smoked and rubbery....but the meat will be wonderful.

thanks a lot for the reply! i appreciate all the info from you and the other posters on this forum. Gonna get back to cooking some more meat on my smoker and I'll see if my technique improves! Now that I have a few guidelines on smoking ribs and chicken I think the food should come out better this time!

by the way here is a photo of some chicken and links I bought from my local bbq joint (Everett and Jones In Berkeley,CA) they have some of the best chicken I tried. Their chicken is real moist and tender falls off the bone, but the skin is also crisp and black. Any idea how they do it? by the way they smoke some really good links. Any recipies or cooking guidelines for links would be appreciated because they melt in your mouth. it looks like they make them from scratch as they are bigger than any reular sized hotlink. they are like butcher size. they cut them down with a big knife after they take them out the smoker

 

[Matt H.]

Another quick question about ribs. How do you guys feel about wrapping the ribs halfway through the cook, maybe after 2 or 3 hrs and cooking them wrapped for the last hour? Does that make them more tender or does it matter @ all. I know people usually wrap them because they want a certain color on the meat and dont want them to get black, but I noticed sometimes when You wrap the meat it gets more tender. Does this make a difference on ribs at all?

Thanks,

And by the way, how to get the fall off the bone chicken, anyone know?

you'll find most people here wrap, but I don't. personally I feel like it makes the ribs mushy. I know most disagree with me, so take what I say with a grain of salt. try both and decide for yourself what you like. as long as you cook it on the lower side of low and slow (225-250) and limit the sugar, I've never had a problem with my ribs having too much bark or being too black.

low and slow for fall off the bone chicken. just dont' expect to enjoy the skin.

 

[SMalki]

you'll find most people here wrap, but I don't. personally I feel like it makes the ribs mushy. I know most disagree with me, so take what I say with a grain of salt. try both and decide for yourself what you like. as long as you cook it on the lower side of low and slow (225-250) and limit the sugar, I've never had a problem with my ribs having too much bark or being too black.

low and slow for fall off the bone chicken. just dont' expect to enjoy the skin.

Ok Ill try without wrapping first. Appreciate the info.

about the chicken, in my previous post I posted a pic of some chicken / links i bought from everett and jones BBQ in berkeley. Their chicken is fall off the bone, but the skin is still somewhat crisp. Any idea how that is done?

 

[Matt H.]

Ok Ill try without wrapping first. Appreciate the info.

about the chicken, in my previous post I posted a pic of some chicken / links i bought from everett and jones BBQ in berkeley. Their chicken is fall off the bone, but the skin is still somewhat crisp. Any idea how that is done?

some people actually take off the skin, smoke the chicken without the skin, cook the skin on a skillet till it's brown, and put it back on. personally I've never been able to do low and slow and get great chicken skin. you can get skin that looks great, but it always tastes rubbery to me.

 

[SMalki]

some people actually take off the skin, smoke the chicken without the skin, cook the skin on a skillet till it's brown, and put it back on. personally I've never been able to do low and slow and get great chicken skin. you can get skin that looks great, but it always tastes rubbery to me.

ok thanks apprecaite the reply. I'll try a few different ways for chicken til i find one that works best for me

 

[ChadVKealey]

Just to throw in my $0.02 on the temp/tenderness bit..."Safe to eat" and "Good to eat" are two different things. This is something that most folks outside of BBQers and professional cooks/chefs just don't get. Technically speaking, the government (for what they're worth) says that beef cooked to 145 degrees is safe to eat. Throw a filet mignon on the grill and sear it up..if it gets to 145 (IMO, at least), it's on the verge of being ruined. Yes, it's safe to eat, but not good to eat (again, IMO). On the flipside, take a brisket. That, too, is beef, but at 145, you'd need jaws like that guy from the James Bond flick to chew it. It needs at least another 50 degrees for all the intra-muscular fat to start breaking down and converting to gelatin. As others have said, temps are a good guide and help to ensure that your foods are safe for consumption, but every cut of meat is going to behave a bit differently, so you need to stop obsessing over temperatures and start poking it with a stick at some point.

 

[JRAiona]

Well said Chad. BBQ is truly where science and art meet.

 

[SMalki]

Just to throw in my $0.02 on the temp/tenderness bit..."Safe to eat" and "Good to eat" are two different things. This is something that most folks outside of BBQers and professional cooks/chefs just don't get. Technically speaking, the government (for what they're worth) says that beef cooked to 145 degrees is safe to eat. Throw a filet mignon on the grill and sear it up..if it gets to 145 (IMO, at least), it's on the verge of being ruined. Yes, it's safe to eat, but not good to eat (again, IMO). On the flipside, take a brisket. That, too, is beef, but at 145, you'd need jaws like that guy from the James Bond flick to chew it. It needs at least another 50 degrees for all the intra-muscular fat to start breaking down and converting to gelatin. As others have said, temps are a good guide and help to ensure that your foods are safe for consumption, but every cut of meat is going to behave a bit differently, so you need to stop obsessing over temperatures and start poking it with a stick at some point.

Well said Chad. BBQ is truly where science and art meet.

Lol thanks for the reply. I really just dont know much about smoking meat which is why I am asking. I'm not a chef or have any formal training. I just like to eat, high quality food, and most of the time that means you have to cook it yourself or pay a high price. Eventually I would like to have my food be on the level of local bbq joints in my area. I would eat at those places more often but they are not cheap! What got me started recently was my mom brought back 6 different homemade bbq sauces from Whole Hog Cafe Arkansas, and tasting the difference between that and store bought, its night and day! She also brought back some pulled pork, and that weekend I had just made some fake pulled pork from the oven, the bbq joint pork literally made my throw my pork out it was so good. I realized I wanted a smoker asap to use all the BBQ sauce so I went out and bought the Weber. I have been looking at smokers on and off for a few years so I settled on the weber after a lots of last minute reading, but I have been studying the different kinds of smokers for a while. I thought it would be more difficult so for a few nights straight i spent hours reading a lot of information on smokers and that may have threw me off. Now that I know about the temperature thing, I feel a lot more confident that the next ribs I make will be fall off the bone. And Hopefully my chicken. These last 2 cooks were some last minute things I just got excited about that bbq sauce. The next cook I do gonna be more planned out and hopefully a lot tastier!

 

[SMalki]

I cook for my family every easter and a lot of times for my girlfriend. Also want to impress them as well lol. It's always more fun to share your food

 

[Robert McGee]

SMalki;
You could do a LOT worse than follow Chris' smoking instructions, here:
http://virtualweberbullet.com/cook.html

The instructions are as near "bullet proof" as you're likely to see. After you have a few cooks under your belt and watch the forum (I check in daily) you can stretch your legs (or not).

Keep us abreast of your progress (I'm always picking up tips from newbies as well as the old timers). It is a journey, not ...

Keep on smokin',
Dale53

 

[SMalki]

SMalki;
You could do a LOT worse than follow Chris' smoking instructions, here:
http://virtualweberbullet.com/cook.html

The instructions are as near "bullet proof" as you're likely to see. After you have a few cooks under your belt and watch the forum (I check in daily) you can stretch your legs (or not).

Keep us abreast of your progress (I'm always picking up tips from newbies as well as the old timers). It is a journey, not ...

Keep on smokin',
Dale53

thanks for the reply! I'll definetly post the next (good) cook I do. I probobly should have read that guide in the firstplace. Answers almost all my questions! Funny how I went to this site and straight to the forum first before taking too much time to read the actual information on the main site. lol. I learn better from asking and doing than from reading I think. Sometimes i misinterpret certain things if I just read them which is why I like to get direct advice from actual pitmasters