OK - Now I see why WSM vs Kettle. But would like suggestions on Spider-22 vs WSM 22 with mods

[Joe Anshien]

I have only come across 1 WSM in my buy and restore ventures. It was an OLD 18" I got for $20. I did some patching and cleaning, and sold without ever using it. I had a corned beef I wanted to smoke and then finish in the Instant Pot as my previous instant pot one was short on flavor, as I think I added to much water and basically boiled it. I was going to do it on the kettle but since yesterday I found another newer 18" WSM for $90 that I could not pass up, I decided to give it a run before scrubbing and selling. I did the minion method on the WSM starting at 11am and took the corned beef off at 4pm at a temp of 150. It was amazing how the WSM holds temp between 220-230 degrees. I only had to touch the WSM twice to stir the coals. Oh, and did I mention that it started raining non-stop at 1pm? I am very impressed! I was constantly adjusting vents on my kettle trying to keep temps when smoking in the past. My wife and I sampled the corned beef when we pulled off the smoker and at 150 degrees it was good, just a little salty. I even thought about skipping the Instant Pot. I then put it in the instant pot on the rack with water in the bottom up to the rack on pressure for 30 minutes, and quick released the pressure. I added carrots and cabbage and did another 10 minutes. It came out fantastic and my wife really likes my hobby! She even said I should not be jealous of my ex-neighbor who smoked every weekend and never invited me try it, no matter how many hints I dropped. She can't imagine his being better than what I have been cooking.

I was just about to pull the trigger on a Spider-22 pellet attachment for my kettle, and thus turning it into the one grill grill that does everything. I have a rotisserie that I am not giving up. Now, after seeing this YouTube video that Phil N Florence put out on modding the WSM to make it a grilling machine

- I am thinking of just getting a 22 WSM just so I can use my rotisserie and other kettle stuff on it. I can say with some certainty that otherwise I will not ever need the capacity of a 22 WSM over an 18 WSM or even a kettle.
Unlike a lot of good folks on this forum with a dozen of grills in there signature, I like simple. I just want 1 gasser (My Q320 is great) and one charcoal fired grill / smoker)... but, I am also keeping my WGA.
Suggestions welcome. Spider-22 with Kettle, or 22 WSM with mods or perhaps something else. Remember I am quite frugal, almost always buy used. There are rotisseries for an 18" but stuff for 22s come up used way more because of all the kettles out there.
Here are the pics of my first WSM Cook ever.

 

[John K BBQ]

I don't know much about the spider-22, but I do really enjoy the 22" WSM, and think it's one of the most (if not the most) versatile charcoal cooker out there. THe 22" kettle rotisserie will fit right on top of the WSM's 22" fire bowl, but you need the 22" kettle lid to fit on top of the rotissery section (the 22" WSM lid won't fit. You can also grill directly on the fire bowl but putting the grate right on top of the charcoal ring. I think a vortex cone can fit between the charcoal grate and cooking grate, but I haven't tried it yet. You can also hang ribs in the 22" WSM if you have a gateway cooker hanging rack...

Sometimes I envy the ease of using a pellet burner.... Sometimes I really want to get a nice offset cooker, but my logical/cheaper side keeps steering me right back to the WSM.

Good luck with it whatever you decide to do!

 

[Joe Anshien]

I don't know much about the spider-22, but I do really enjoy the 22" WSM, and think it's one of the most (if not the most) versatile charcoal cooker out there. THe 22" kettle rotisserie will fit right on top of the WSM's 22" fire bowl, but you need the 22" kettle lid to fit on top of the rotissery section (the 22" WSM lid won't fit. You can also grill directly on the fire bowl but putting the grate right on top of the charcoal ring. I think a vortex cone can fit between the charcoal grate and cooking grate, but I haven't tried it yet. You can also hang ribs in the 22" WSM if you have a gateway cooker hanging rack...

Sometimes I envy the ease of using a pellet burner.... Sometimes I really want to get a nice offset cooker, but my logical/cheaper side keeps steering me right back to the WSM.

Good luck with it whatever you decide to do!

Thank you. I did not know about the WSM lid not fitting the Rotisserie ring. Yes - logic is sometimes good. Sometimes a pain.

 

[GregInTexas]

I don't know much about the spider-22, but I do really enjoy the 22" WSM, and think it's one of the most (if not the most) versatile charcoal cooker out there. THe 22" kettle rotisserie will fit right on top of the WSM's 22" fire bowl, but you need the 22" kettle lid to fit on top of the rotissery section (the 22" WSM lid won't fit. You can also grill directly on the fire bowl but putting the grate right on top of the charcoal ring. I think a vortex cone can fit between the charcoal grate and cooking grate, but I haven't tried it yet. You can also hang ribs in the 22" WSM if you have a gateway cooker hanging rack...

Sometimes I envy the ease of using a pellet burner.... Sometimes I really want to get a nice offset cooker, but my logical/cheaper side keeps steering me right back to the WSM.

Good luck with it whatever you decide to do!

If I may comment on the statement above: Before I got my WSM I was convinced that only an offset smoker (fueled by wood only) could produce a good smoke ring and flavor. A good friend of mine, who has owned and used a WSM for over 15 years, was trying to convince me otherwise. The convincing straw on the camel's back was his recommendation that I view some of Harry Soo's YouTube videos - this is a guy who has won state, national, and international competitions - with a darn WSM. He competes against people with 20-$50,000 custom pits, and he wins!

More to the point, before my WSM I was borrowing my neighbor's offset smoker, and did produce some good meats, but I had to sit next to it all day long, adjusting vents and wood levels. A final push for me to to get the WSM was the fact that my friend told me he could set the WSM and walk away for hours to do other stuff. At that point I figured if I got an Offset smoker, at some point I'd get tired of it only because I'd have to sit there next to it all day long. Which means at some point I'd stop using it......

Now that I have the WSM, yep, I can set it up, adjust, and go do other stuff while the meat does its stuff. I use this thing frequently.

G

 

[Joe Anshien]

If I may comment on the statement above: Before I got my WSM I was convinced that only an offset smoker (fueled by wood only) could produce a good smoke ring and flavor. A good friend of mine, who has owned and used a WSM for over 15 years, was trying to convince me otherwise. The convincing straw on the camel's back was his recommendation that I view some of Harry Soo's YouTube videos - this is a guy who has won state, national, and international competitions - with a darn WSM. He competes against people with 20-$50,000 custom pits, and he wins!

More to the point, before my WSM I was borrowing my neighbor's offset smoker, and did produce some good meats, but I had to sit next to it all day long, adjusting vents and wood levels. A final push for me to to get the WSM was the fact that my friend told me he could set the WSM and walk away for hours to do other stuff. At that point I figured if I got an Offset smoker, at some point I'd get tired of it only because I'd have to sit there next to it all day long. Which means at some point I'd stop using it......

Now that I have the WSM, yep, I can set it up, adjust, and go do other stuff while the meat does its stuff. I use this thing frequently.

G

Thanks Greg, I guess for me it comes down to I want to be able to charcoal grill, smoke, and rotisserie with one device without constantly watching it, and a high price tag. I think it is possible but something will require modding at some point to do it. I have the 18" WSM now but would have to buy a new 18" CB rotto (which they don't seem to have any more when I just checked) when I already actually have 2 Weber 22" rotos. But then as John pointed out (Thank You John) the Weber 22" rotisseries I finally got will not fit on the the 22 WSM which through a wrench in my plans.
The 18 is a good size for me but the 22 has stuff like the vortex and WGS system that is not made in an 18". I may just take an angle grinder and drill to the 18 WSM so I can fit the rotisserie and then grind a hole in an 19" grate for a vortex. and call it a day;-) at least it is one of my options.

 

[Michael Richards]

Joe,
I have my kettle set-up with a ceramic difusser system and I have my WSM 14. After about a dozen cooks with the kettle and diffuser, I really feel like I know how to manage low and slow temps for hours with very little messing with the vents. I also want to add I love cooking on the kettle with the diffuser system. However, and it is a big however, every time I go back to use my WSM 14, I am blown away at how little work it takes to manage the temps to get amazing results. I did my first brisket (a flat) recently, and I set the vents and did not have to touch anything until after I foil wrapped it, that is crazy!!! I love doing low and slow and I would say I do about as many low and slow cooks as I did hot and fast. With low and slow being a staple in my cooking, I would never and I mean never part with my WSM (unless it was to get a bigger WSM) and only have the kettle for that.
If I was in your shoes I would be looking for a used WSM 18 or 22 (if you already sold the 18) and try it out for a while and then decide if you need or want to try the spider pellet attachment. If you do decide it is not for you, you already know that there is great resaleability.
On another note, I really thought about get an ATC for my WSM and I have really really decided I don't need it, it stays steady so well without it.

 

[Jim C in Denver]

Joe -- IMO, there's just two reasons to prefer the WSM 22 to the WSM 18. Sounds like one of those reasons may apply to you.

Overall capacity, though, isn't one of the reasons. Unless you are catering a wedding, hardly anyone will ever need to cook more than what you can fit in an 18 WSM.

1. Ribs. If you really want to lay full slabs out flat, the 22 is the ticket. You can do lots of ribs on an 18, but you'll have to rack em, roll em, cut em or hang em (my method).

2. Grilling. You can use an 18 for grilling (which I occasionally do). But mostly I grill on the gasser. If you want to use your WSM as a more serious charcoal grill (and not add a kettle to the quiver), the 22 is better.

First, the 18 form factor gets quite small if you try to do east/west two zone charcoal cooking; the extra 22 real estate comes in handy. Second, the standard 22 kettle form factor means you can use all manner of kettle grates, baskets, diffuser plates, SnS, etc. etc. etc. As you can tell from Phil in Florence's channel, there's a LOT of different ways to grill on your 22.

The best IMO is to put the whole WSM charcoal chamber up on the water pan brackets and then have two cooking grates rigged above (I have the C Bandit extended brackets on my 18). Middle bracket/grate is for high temp/searing; top bracket/grate is for roasting. So you get your two zones by adjusting vertically (like a Santa Maria) rather than horizontally).

Having said all that, a used 22 kettle will set you back like $50 bucks. So it is much cheaper and simpler than gearing up to grill on your 18 or 22 WSM.

Other options.

Get an 18 Jumbo Joe. You can then use your 18 WSM as the grill stand.

Sell the roti and do your chicken in the 18 WSM. Vertical roaster rack on the lower cooking grate (or hang from hanging rack), no pan, hot and fast. Every bit as good as roti imo.

 

[Joe Anshien]

Joe -- IMO, there's just two reasons to prefer the WSM 22 to the WSM 18. Sounds like one of those reasons may apply to you.

Overall capacity, though, isn't one of the reasons. Unless you are catering a wedding, hardly anyone will ever need to cook more than what you can fit in an 18 WSM.

1. Ribs. If you really want to lay full slabs out flat, the 22 is the ticket. You can do lots of ribs on an 18, but you'll have to rack em, roll em, cut em or hang em (my method).

2. Grilling. You can use an 18 for grilling (which I occasionally do). But mostly I grill on the gasser. If you want to use your WSM as a more serious charcoal grill (and not add a kettle to the quiver), the 22 is better.

First, the 18 form factor gets quite small if you try to do east/west two zone charcoal cooking; the extra 22 real estate comes in handy. Second, the standard 22 kettle form factor means you can use all manner of kettle grates, baskets, diffuser plates, SnS, etc. etc. etc. As you can tell from Phil in Florence's channel, there's a LOT of different ways to grill on your 22.

The best IMO is to put the whole WSM charcoal chamber up on the water pan brackets and then have two cooking grates rigged above (I have the C Bandit extended brackets on my 18). Middle bracket/grate is for high temp/searing; top bracket/grate is for roasting. So you get your two zones by adjusting vertically (like a Santa Maria) rather than horizontally).

Having said all that, a used 22 kettle will set you back like $50 bucks. So it is much cheaper and simpler than gearing up to grill on your 18 or 22 WSM.

Other options.

Get an 18 Jumbo Joe. You can then use your 18 WSM as the grill stand.

Sell the roti and do your chicken in the 18 WSM. Vertical roaster rack on the lower cooking grate (or hang from hanging rack), no pan, hot and fast. Every bit as good as roti imo.

I agree with everything except getting rid of the rotisserie. I love my self basting rotating chickens. The next time you do "WSM charcoal chamber up on the water pan brackets and then have two cooking grates rigged above" please take a picture and post here, as I am having some problems visualizing it.

 

[J Grotz]

The next time you do "WSM charcoal chamber up on the water pan brackets and then have two cooking grates rigged above" please take a picture and post here, as I am having some problems visualizing it.

Before I picked up a kettle, I was using my CB roti on my WSM22. The water pan and lower grate brackets are basically the same location. When I used the roti ring on top of the mid-section as designed, the meat on the spit was a long way from the coals. I ended up putting charcoal baskets on the lower cooking grate whenever I used the roti ring on the WSM. That worked well. I could have used the charcoal ring instead of baskets, but I was cooking indirect. Jim likely rigged a second cooking grate to the top grate using long bolts.

John K's idea is good, but I did not have a kettle lid lying around, so putting the roti ring on the charcoal bowl was not an option for me.

 

[Joe Anshien]

Before I picked up a kettle, I was using my CB roti on my WSM22. The water pan and lower grate brackets are basically the same location. When I used the roti ring on top of the mid-section as designed, the meat on the spit was a long way from the coals. I ended up putting charcoal baskets on the lower cooking grate whenever I used the roti ring on the WSM. That worked well. I could have used the charcoal ring instead of baskets, but I was cooking indirect. Jim likely rigged a second cooking grate to the top grate using long bolts.

John K's idea is good, but I did not have a kettle lid lying around, so putting the roti ring on the charcoal bowl was not an option for me.

John,
If you already had the WSM 22 with CB Roti, why did you pick up a kettle? I like the idea of the baskets as I also use them now with with the Roti on the kettle. I also made a Bro-N-Sear and have some extra grates, but all for the 22. I may come to the conclusion I need 3 devices, but we will see.

 

[J Grotz]

I bought the kettle for a few reasons. One, I had been wanting a blue MT for a while when they started popping up on CL after Corona beer gave a bunch away. Second, I knew I would be needing a charcoal grill for a period of time and a kettle from CL seemed the most cost effective way to do it. (My 16 yr. old daily driver charcoal grill needed a custom part fabbed and I didn't know how long that would take.) Third, my daily driver is not as good at rotisserie as a kettle with a ring. And fourth, even though putting the charcoal baskets on the lower cooking grate worked better than coals at the bottom of the bowl, the coals are still significantly lower (about 9" IIRC) than on a kettle (5.5" IIRC). Having done the same roti recipes on both the WSM and the kettle, the kettle cooked food has better browning than on the WSM while using less charcoal.

 

[Jim C in Denver]

Here's my 18 WSM set up for grilling.

Charcoal grate goes on water pan bracket. It is an exact fit (used to be in the WSM owner manual actually). Believe you can do the same thing on the 22.

High temp cooking grate goes on top of ring (4 inches away) or middle bracket (if you have one like I do) 5 inch spread. Same distance as a kettle direct heat. Lower temp grate goes on top (11 inches spread).

FYI, I'm using the Cajun Bandit extended brackets to get the additional grate. So my spread measurements are a little different than what you get with the stock WSM brackets. Those I think are more like 4 inches (ring) and 8-9 (top).

 

[Lew Newby]

If it was me I would do the modified WSM 22. I sold all of mine and do pellets only. If you want simplicity then one fuel, one cooker for grilling and smoking, no pellet grill controller to deal with, and used parts galore is simplicity. If you want a kettle lid then pick up a wreck for cheap and use that.

 

[David-B]

I could use the kettle for everything I do, or the wsm could pull off grilling duties...personally I like having a separate grill and a dedicated smoker, but I am also someone who likes a nice simple setup and in my mind I have to be able to justify having a bunch of stuff so having lots of grills and smokers doesnt compute with me....I hate clutter

 

[Colin]

Touch decisions here, so many possibilities. Good luck Joe, I'm sure you will get it figured out.

 

[Richard Garcia]

I could use the kettle for everything I do, or the wsm could pull off grilling duties...personally I like having a separate grill and a dedicated smoker, but I am also someone who likes a nice simple setup and in my mind I have to be able to justify having a bunch of stuff so having lots of grills and smokers doesnt compute with me....I hate clutter

In my present BBQ Arsenal I have a Weber Performer Deluxe, WSM 18" "Classic" and a Weber Smoky Joe

 

[David-B]

In my present BBQ Arsenal I have a Weber Performer Deluxe, WSM 18" "Classic" and a Weber Smoky Joe

that green is nice along with the table color

 

[Joe Anshien]

In my present BBQ Arsenal I have a Weber Performer Deluxe, WSM 18" "Classic" and a Weber Smoky Joe

I will be keeping the Q320, Performer, WSM18, and my little WGA for trips and porch grillin' in winter, for now.

 

[ABandler]

I may be late to the party, I’ll throw in an unsolicited endorsement for the Spider-22. I got one this winter and I couldn’t be happier with it. I live in Denver, where it’s dry and often cool at night. As such, I’ve found that pretty much every cook needs to be increased in time by about 25%. I’ve messed it up a couple times and nothing beats the safety net of just being able to turn up the temp with a dial. Anyway, I was shopping traditional pellet grills, and couldn’t get past the price point. An entry level traeger is around $600 and in my experience, they have problems—specifically that a sideways barrel with heat coming from one side will always have a temp differential. The Spider is amazing because it’s half the price, and it leverages the tried and true design of the Weber kettle, which has near perfect convection. It goes through pellets way more efficiently than the traeger, and the heat is much more even.

Anyway, I realize that this post wasn’t about deciding between a traeger and a spider, but since the spider is so new, I figured I’d offer my own experience with it to those interested.

Cheers!
Aaron

 

[Michael Richards]

I may be late to the party, I’ll throw in an unsolicited endorsement for the Spider-22. I got one this winter and I couldn’t be happier with it. I live in Denver, where it’s dry and often cool at night. As such, I’ve found that pretty much every cook needs to be increased in time by about 25%. I’ve messed it up a couple times and nothing beats the safety net of just being able to turn up the temp with a dial. Anyway, I was shopping traditional pellet grills, and couldn’t get past the price point. An entry level traeger is around $600 and in my experience, they have problems—specifically that a sideways barrel with heat coming from one side will always have a temp differential. The Spider is amazing because it’s half the price, and it leverages the tried and true design of the Weber kettle, which has near perfect convection. It goes through pellets way more efficiently than the traeger, and the heat is much more even.

Anyway, I realize that this post wasn’t about deciding between a traeger and a spider, but since the spider is so new, I figured I’d offer my own experience with it to those interested.

Cheers!
Aaron

Aaron,
I love hearing a review on the doing! Thanks for adding!