Making pizza on the WSM.


 
Arun L. said:
Thanks for the explanation.

I think what you're referring to as 00 flour is called bread flour here, and that's what I've been using.

I used the same basic recipe last time on 7/31, but had used more water.

Here's what it looked like then, it wasn't as crumbly:

http://i.imgur.com/YfQHSrl.jpg

It was a little too sticky then around the back, so I used more flour and less water this time.
Click to expand...

Paul M said:
Your dough still doesn't look right to me, and I'm a complete novice. Seems a bit rough, I would search for another recipe. Try the Weber web site, here's the UK one;

http://www.weber.com/GB/en/recipes/pizza-and-bread/pizza-with-prosciutto-and-wild-rocket.html as an example.
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Does that attempt from 7/31 look better, in the quoted post above? Is that attempt less rough? It looks smoother. But as I said, it was a little too sticky.

Here's the image again from 7/31:


http://i.imgur.com/YfQHSrl.jpg


While it wasn't my attempt to do so, I think the dough would have been ok if I was trying for a deep dish pizza. As I said, I like both thin and deep dish pizza. What do you think of deep dish pizza?

So that's why I didn't think the dough was so absurd during the 8/24 attempt.

But I do want to get a thinner dough right, so I know how to do it. And I'm not opposed to trying a different recipe.


Chris Allingham said:
Here's that recipe: https://tvwbb.com/showthread.php?71719-Pizza-Dough-Recipe-by-Barb-D

There are many other pizza dough recipes in the Other Main Course Recipes forum.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I always like hearing from you too.

Timothy F. Lewis said:
Thanks for the clarification Paul, that's what I was informed by a friend as well, "being (or taking)a Mickey" was his take on it. I rather like the phrase, I might have to use it!
Arun, you need to spend as much time practicing as you do posting, reading about cooking while informative, is not practical experience.
Go see a guy that makes pizza and TALK to them, buy some flour from him, then make dough, it's not anywhere near as hard as you constantly seem to want to make things, learn to light and maintain a fire, learn the basics of making anything, don't rush, just get out there and practice.
Look up Barb Dahl's pizza dough recipe, it's here somewhere.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. I do talk to people about how my attempts have been, and listen to their suggestions too.

But it's one of those things where when I'm by myself, I either make mistakes or do things wrong that others don't make mistakes with. Or I do different mistakes that I didn't make in previous times.

I still report my attempts back to them and get feedback too.

I have been practicing, as with these 4 attempts in 6 weeks with dough.

As for the lighting a fire, using the flex nozzle lighter combined with the new chimney made things much easier. Along with the paper donut.


Back to the topic of cooking evenly, did it look much better this time, now that I used the middle section of the WSM to keep some distance from the steel? I thought that was my main accomplishment this time, getting the top to cook better with respect to the bottom.

7/31 after removing from Kettle Pizza:

http://i.imgur.com/MloueQJ.jpg

And this time (8/24) (no boiler needed to finish the top):

http://i.imgur.com/ernkoUU.jpg


And my other question was whether I should consider getting a dome for the Kettle Pizza, or does it look like the top cooked close to as well as possible?
 
Arun,
As to the dome question, I was under the impression than the kettle pizza unit was designed for a "kettle" therefore the lid would BE the dome. Have you been doing this with no lid in place?
If that is the case, there lies the rub.
I have a Pizzaque which is similar in theory and you MUST use the lid as the dome.
Think about it, if you have been doing your pizza cooking with no lid there is no possible way you can get anywhere near the temperature the unit is designed to achieve, the heat would simply blow away, put a lid on it!
Post a shot of your set up, that will make the troubleshooting much easier.
 
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Timothy F. Lewis said:
Arun,
As to the dome question, I was under the impression than the kettle pizza unit was designed for a "kettle" therefore the lid would BE the dome. Have you been doing this with no lid in place?
If that is the case, there lies the rub.
I have a Pizzaque which is similar in theory and you MUST use the lid as the dome.
Think about it, if you have been doing your pizza cooking with no lid there is no possible way you can get anywhere near the temperature the unit is designed to achieve, the heat would simply blow away, put a lid on it!
Post a shot of your set up, that will make the troubleshooting much easier.
Click to expand...

I used a lid the most recent time.

http://i.imgur.com/Xw6I39P.jpg

So with the lid on, does it look like the top is getting done about as well as possible?

http://i.imgur.com/ernkoUU.jpg

I thought the top was much improved, I'd do it a little less time next time, but I also want to get others opinions.
 
Are you using a cookie sheet poking out the side there? That shot is pretty dark. If so, there is one point where things can go off the trolley, you're disrupting airflow like a f--- in a hot tub. Think about symmetry inside the kettle you want even flow for even cooking. Also, I am not so sure the full height of the WSM is optimum for the unit either. Those things are really intended for use on a kettle, the heat is more like eight inches from the pizza stone then the whole interior of the "oven" is being heated to a much higher temp simply by the volume. The route I would take, is slimy follow the manufacturers instructions before mucking about with raising the insert to a height four times the design parameters.

No, no I can't tell you about "Grillstock"
"If one can't go, one can't talk about "Grillstock""
I can't go, I can't speak.

Read Barbs recipe! She says very clearly AP (All Purpose) flour.
A few posts back the gluten difference was laid out by someone else very nicely.
Read, learn, cook, digest, repeat.
 
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Timothy F. Lewis said:
Are you using a cookie sheet poking out the side there? That shot is pretty dark. If so, there is one point where things can go off the trolley, you're disrupting airflow like a f--- in a hot tub. Think about symmetry inside the kettle you want even flow for even cooking. Also, I am not so sure the full height of the WSM is optimum for the unit either. Those things are really intended for use on a kettle, the heat is more like eight inches from the pizza stone then the whole interior of the "oven" is being heated to a much higher temp simply by the volume. The route I would take, is slimy follow the manufacturers instructions before mucking about with raising the insert to a height four times the design parameters.
Click to expand...

No, it's my 3/8" thick, 15" square baking steel.

Despite me doing my best to do the measurements beforehand, it seemed like it would fit in the WSM until I actually got it.

I don't want to get a new baking steel if I don't have to. I don't want another appliance if I can avoid it.

So far, I think I can manage by rotating the pizza. I haven't noticed 1/2 of 1/4 of the pizza being cooked differently than the others, so I think I've been able to manage.

Yeah, I started by putting the Kettle Pizza on the charcoal grate as was recommended. But that's too low.

Maybe the WSM middle insert is too high, but it's better than being too low and having the bottom cooked too fast. It just means I have to cook a little longer, but oh well.


Timothy F. Lewis said:
Read Barbs recipe! She says very clearly AP (All Purpose) flour.
A few posts back the gluten difference was laid out by someone else very nicely.
Read, learn, cook, digest, repeat.
Click to expand...

JBooker said:
Bread flour is a general reference to the gluten level. It has a higher level then all purpose flour. Then cake flour is a low gluten level. It has less gluten than all purpose flour.

00 refers to how finely its ground. It is a finer grind than normal flour. Pizza's usually use a high gluten flour that's is ground fine 00.
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I just wanted to check because I tried a few different recipe a few months ago, and some called for bread flour, and some didn't. So I wanted to double check.

Someone also said a few months ago that bread flour was finer, whereas @JBooker in this thread said the difference is the gluten.
 
The problem you have Arun, is your doughs rubbish (no offence) and as Timothy has pointed out, your not going to enough heat using a WSM. I struggle a bit with the Weber 6520 I've just bought, your never do it with a WSM, unless your trying to smoke a pizza for 3hrs.
 
How are you cooking these pizza's? Directly on the steel or in a lodge cast iron pan? I haven't really messed with making a deep dish style pizza but you cant use the same crust recipe for both. Deep dish pizza's require a longer baking time at a lower temp so the crust is going to need to have a higher water content. This is because the pizza cooks longer and will have more time to dry out in the oven. When you convert your recipe to grams and % your looking at roughly an 77% water content which is high. You should be below 70% for a New York style of pizza. Your dough looks crumbly which makes me think a few things.

#1.Its not getting mixed / kneeded until smooth
#2.your actually getting to much flour in the recipe during the measuring process.
#3. to much flour is getting added in while kneeding.

You can eliminate #2 by using weight instead of volume as the unit of measurement. Also use grams because its simpler than figuring Lbs and Oz.
The problem with measuring using volume is its not accurate. If I scoop a cup of flour, and you scoop a cup of flour there are different amounts of flour measured. I may get a more compact scoop. When all your measurements are based of weight they will be the same. 500g of flour is 500g. It doesn't matter how packed or loose it is when its measured by weight.

According to an online calculator 3 cups of bread flour is 381g. 1 1/4 cup of water is 295g. 295/381 = 0.774 or 77%.
 
JBooker said:
How are you cooking these pizza's? Directly on the steel or in a lodge cast iron pan? I haven't really messed with making a deep dish style pizza but you cant use the same crust recipe for both. Deep dish pizza's require a longer baking time at a lower temp so the crust is going to need to have a higher water content. This is because the pizza cooks longer and will have more time to dry out in the oven. When you convert your recipe to grams and % your looking at roughly an 77% water content which is high. You should be below 70% for a New York style of pizza. Your dough looks crumbly which makes me think a few things.

#1.Its not getting mixed / kneeded until smooth
#2.your actually getting to much flour in the recipe during the measuring process.
#3. to much flour is getting added in while kneeding.

You can eliminate #2 by using weight instead of volume as the unit of measurement. Also use grams because its simpler than figuring Lbs and Oz.
The problem with measuring using volume is its not accurate. If I scoop a cup of flour, and you scoop a cup of flour there are different amounts of flour measured. I may get a more compact scoop. When all your measurements are based of weight they will be the same. 500g of flour is 500g. It doesn't matter how packed or loose it is when its measured by weight.

According to an online calculator 3 cups of bread flour is 381g. 1 1/4 cup of water is 295g. 295/381 = 0.774 or 77%.
Click to expand...

I'm cooking them directly on the steel.

Thanks for the 70% or less water recommendation.

I have a food scale, I'll use that next time and Barb's recipe but make sure I'm getting the ratio right. Instead of volume cup measurements.

That recipe I used the last few times was recommended for New York style, but I'm obviously not getting it right. The person that posted that was high on the merits of bread flour.

That's why I was asking about bread flour again because sometimes I get different recommendations or opinions from different people.

So I'll use Barb's recipe next time, and the recommended all purpose flour.
 
Paul M said:
The problem you have Arun, is your doughs rubbish (no offence) and as Timothy has pointed out, your not going to enough heat using a WSM. I struggle a bit with the Weber 6520 I've just bought, your never do it with a WSM, unless your trying to smoke a pizza for 3hrs.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Looking at that Kamado, it has similar shape features to a WSM. So if you're struggling, then I can see why I'm struggling.

I'll do the best I can a few more times. There may be a point at which I realize I can't make it any better than it is.

Question: Should I try again with the Kettle Pizza on top of the charcoal grate, or is that too close to the fire and that causes the bottom to cook too quickly? And it's better to use the middle cooking section and just cook longer because there's less heat?

I forgot why I didn't use the lid on the 7/31 attempt. I had some reason on that day, but don't remember it anymore. I did use the lid on the 8/24 attempt.
 
Timothy F. Lewis said:
I was going to write something but...
Do whatever you want, it seems like that's what you're going to do anyway.
I'm out of this one
Click to expand...

I apologize if it seemed like I was ignoring or disregarding your advice.

That wasn't my intent. I was just trying to ask questions, for example, with the bread flour, because someone had something differently a few months ago. Someone was promoting bread flour and that recipe to me.

I'm going to try Barb's recipe next time and pay attention to weights this time instead of volume.

Thank you for being the one to suggest Barb's recipe.

You've been very helpful to me this month in:

* Suggesting I not get an electric starter

* This:

Timothy F. Lewis said:
The nozzle of the torch goes through the bottom vent and fires the bottom of the chimney. That points the flame up into the chimney, not a bad idea, I'm doing some steaks tonight, might try this trick
Click to expand...

* All of the pictures on your cooks and setup you sent me.

I appreciate anything further you offer on this topic, either now, or after my next attempt.

I don't want to lose you as an online friend.
 
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Arun L. said:
Thanks. Looking at that Kamado, it has similar shape features to a WSM. So if you're struggling, then I can see why I'm struggling.

I'll do the best I can a few more times. There may be a point at which I realize I can't make it any better than it is.

Question: Should I try again with the Kettle Pizza on top of the charcoal grate, or is that too close to the fire and that causes the bottom to cook too quickly? And it's better to use the middle cooking section and just cook longer because there's less heat?

I forgot why I didn't use the lid on the 7/31 attempt. I had some reason on that day, but don't remember it anymore. I did use the lid on the 8/24 attempt.
Click to expand...

Thoughts anyone, bump? Thanks.
 
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