Learn Me How To Use A Vortex....


 
J

Jim Weber

TVWBB Pro
So, I'm trying to use the kettle more.... I made a redneck vortex out of a 'popcorn tin' thinking it should pretty much do the same thing --- it was FREE and I have another one for when this one rusts out.

So I filled up the 'vortex' with coal and a big ole chunk of plum wood at the bottom - gas assist to light - let it burn until it was pretty clean smoke..... Put the lid on it and it spiked out my thermometer - it only goes to 550, but it was headed all the way around back to HOT. I pulled the thermometer out since I didn't want to kill it.... closed down the vents a bit and got it to settle back to ~550 and started cooking my chicken thighs. I let the thighs go skin side up for ~40 minutes - rotating 180 half way thru - running 500-550 the whole time ---- they were looking really good. I decided to flip them to see if I could get the skin to crisp up more (seemed appropriate) - gave them another ~25 minutes and then started basting with bbq and finishing.

The thighs turned out GREAT flavor/smoke/juiciness wise --- but the skin was less than fantastic :( Still a bit rubbery with a poor 'bite'. I would have thought that such a high heat cook would have rendered the skin better.... I will add to that I tried to give the skin (one thigh) some direct heat over the vortex ---but that seemed like a losing battle - it immediately scorched and burned the skin causing it to shrink and pull back.... so I just let it be.

What did I do wrong? Should I have run the vortex wide open (with the thermometer out) for the highest heat? Should I NOT have flipped them? I'm trying to recalibrate to this high heat fast and hot cooking.... I know the votex is supposed to make crispy wings --- I was hoping for a nice crispy thigh....


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Oooooo.... and I will add just for the hell of it ---- I've been trying to use up some red cherries.... I've been chopping them up fine (7 or 8) and adding them to a mix of SBR (bbq or teriyaki) with a scoop (~1T) of ALMOND BUTTER (peanut butter would work too, but I have NO other use for the almond butter) and a good splash of Franks - then thinned with a little beer to the right consistancy ----- absolutely a STELLAR glaze for chicken and pork chops!!!! I had been using whatever jelly I had in the fridge but for some reason cherries sounded REALLY good..... and it was!!! I'm gonna have to get some more and stash some in the freezer for later.... Blueberries are next on the list to try.
 
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I would start by not adding sauce to the meat while you are cooking it.
I never ever do that and my skin will be crispy......or at least have great eating texture anywhere over 450 with indirect.......
I use my E6 and run 550 without issues and it makes wings great.
 
Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I KNOW sauce will soften the skin.... my problem is the skin isn't rendering or crisping prior to it being sauced.

I typically do my legs and thighs on my gasser set up for low and slow smoke cooks with a smoke tube..... Legs are really 'not' a problem - the skin renders out nicely while cooking @200-250 for 2.5 hours and actually goes to paper like texture --- thighs never really render at the low temps, but I always hit them with higher heat at the end to render them pretty effectively and then sauce them. The problem with thighs is that they really don't take up as much smoke as the legs do on a gasser smoke.

The kettle dumps ALOT of smoke into the thighs!!! I just need to figure out how to get the skin to render properly. I had 'expected' that a 550 dome temp would do that without any problem. My guess is that I shouldn't have flipped them - skin side up until the final glazing - since all the juices probably sit right on the skin keeping it from rendering.

I'm wondering what kind of temps people get on the dome when running a vortex...? I was surprised how long it took for them to cook running 500-550 --- are people running much hotter than that?

Its all kinda a moot point actually ---- since I usually cook enough chicken for 2-4 leftover meals - the skin is usually not as good as fresh off the grill unless I give it a nice bake in the toaster oven when I'm reheating. I'm trying for getting a good 'bite' on the skin instead of it coming off in one big sheet.
 
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timothy said:
A vortex is a cone shaped thing that funnels the heat towards the dome and then that radiates down.
Your cooking in a empty coffee can which isn't the same.
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What part of 'redneck vortex' did you miss??? I'm not willing to spend $25-40 on one yet.... I'll make my own out of some scrap SS when I run across some ---- I'm sure I'll run into a clapped out cabinet model soon that could donate the doors for one.

And we can argue semantics all day about 'how important the angle of the cone is'..... the can I'm using does have a slight taper to it. The fact that the coals a collected in the center and the heat is rising and flowing back is all that really matters. I would doubt there is any 'swirling vortex effect' imparted by the cone..... if anything its giving a larger radiating surface that heats more.
 
timothy said:
I never check because my thermo is pegged.
45 mins gives me crispy skin with my vortex.
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Thats the info I was looking for.... you didn't mention legs, thighs or wings.
I'm worried about killing the thermometer if I exceed its max value by too much. I'm also concerned about killing the grate over the intense coal pile too...... gonna be thinking about a Master grate with the center hole now too.
 
Jim Weber said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I KNOW sauce will soften the skin.... my problem is the skin isn't rendering or crisping prior to it being sauced.
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Jim Weber said:
What part of 'redneck vortex' did you miss??? I'm not willing to spend $25-40 on one yet.... I'll make my own out of some scrap SS when I run across some ---- I'm sure I'll run into a clapped out cabinet model soon that could donate the doors for one.

And we can argue semantics all day about 'how important the angle of the cone is'..... the can I'm using does have a slight taper to it. The fact that the coals a collected in the center and the heat is rising and flowing back is all that really matters. I would doubt there is any 'swirling vortex effect' imparted by the cone..... if anything its giving a larger radiating surface that heats more.
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You came to us asking for help...........
 
Jim Weber said:
. I'm also concerned about killing the grate over the intense coal pile too...... gonna be thinking about a Master grate with the center hole now too.
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You’re right the intense heat will weaken the grate over time. The GBS grate is perfect for a Vortex cook. Putting down some foil under the chicken is a good idea too, makes clean up much easier.

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part of what makes a vortex work is the cone shape itself. it increases convection dramatically. moreso than just using a slightly tapered coffee can which will give you more radiative heat (or not as much convection). Putting the foil down under the chicken will not only make clean up easier, but more readily force the air up through your coffee can rig and maybe bring back more of that convection action which will crisp the chicken faster too. that's why vortex users typically rock close to 700 degrees. It's also why convection ovens are a thing.
 
I use a light dusting of corn starch or baking powder and let them go for 45 minutes at around 450. I do that for both wings and thighs and don't flip or rotate the lid.
Momma likes her skin REAL crispy so I'll put hers directly over the coals ( skin down) for about 10 seconds.
 
Phil S said:
I use a light dusting of corn starch or baking powder and let them go for 45 minutes at around 450. I do that for both wings and thighs and don't flip or rotate the lid.
Momma likes her skin REAL crispy so I'll put hers directly over the coals ( skin down) for about 10 seconds.
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Now that is some useful info..... Thank you. I had forgotten about the cornstarch trick..... I've actually got some in the pantry from when I was experimenting with the gasser. I will definitely file that tip incase I have too many more disappointing cooks.

I'm pretty sure my mistake was flipping them --- I thought the radiant heat off the can would help more than the convective..... I had forgotten about the cooling effects of the juices collecting on (inside) the skin. I was also concerned about the un-skin side getting torched.... thinking all the juices dripping down would protect it now....

45 minutes at 450..... impressive for thighs. I hope I can hit that point at some point.
 
timothy said:
It was thighs, just like Duane, skin up, rub, no flip.
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Same when using a vortex.

On a gasser or the WSK where I don't have the vortex I will start them skin up for about 20 mins, then flip the thighs skin down direct heat lid up for a few mins. This gets the skin crispy and sometimes slightly charred. Then they are flipped back to skin up to finish. Bone in thighs I take up to 180F or higher and I do not sauce the skin.

With a Vortex I don't have to flip the thighs. I don't use baking powder or corn starch.
 
I'm on board with you Dan, vortex hot, seasoned chicken and cook until it looks great....
You can cook the snot out of thighs too.....I actually cooked wings the the point where they were " fall off the bone " once on the E6....600 or so nice dark crisp y skin, low on juice and fat but still pretty good.
 
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