Learn Me How To Use A Vortex....


 
Having used the Vortex on a standard kettle and a “center vent“ platypus, results seem to be better on the regular offset top vent but, there was alcohol involved so, I will repeat the “test”. I don’t understand the concept of throttling back the vents though, the design is to achieve the highest possible (indirect) temperature, hence the name “Vortex” it does indeed provide Venturi effect heat with minimum coal maintenance on a kettle, I’m not sure what possible bonus would be achieved by lowering the temperature through vent management. Rich has demonstrated the brilliance of KFC using the Vortex as designed.crispy breading is only going to be achieved through the full throttle use which is a coal fired air fryer!
What is your desired result JIm? I’m a little confused.
Yanoh --- to me -- 650+ to cook chicken just seems to be a bit much on the extreme side..... maintaining 500-650ish 'should be' more than adequate to cook chicken with crispy skin in a reasonably short time. I know there is an offset between the dome temp and the grate temp - I haven't actually probed the grate yet to find out what it is - I fear for my probes since they are only rated to I believe ~575 or so.... But cooking chicken with a dome temp of 750+?!?!?!?!? It just doesn't compute in my mind.... And the fear of overcooking and drying out the meat is a real fear.

To me ---- the purpose of the vortex is to concentrate the heat in the center of the grill giving you a perimeter cooking area of indirect heat..... NOT getting the HIGHEST heat possible. Sure - your KFC and breaded chicken needs that high heat ---- but I'm not THERE yet. I'm not one of those "TURN IT UP TO ELEVEN" guys - until I see the need to. Maybe I'll get to that point --- but when you think about roasting chicken in the oven @375-425 and you can get nicely rendered and crispy skin in 30-45 minutes ---- why the hell do you have to take it to 700+??? Just saying "because thats the way you do it so do it' just doesn't cut it with me..... I've tried it hot enuff a couple of times now and it still baffles me that if the dome is reading 700+ I have to assume the grates temp has to be 450+ easily (maybe I'm wrong) --- why is it taking close to an hour to cook thighs?

I started this thread to find out more how to set the vents - what temps to shoot for on the dome - how long it should take - other tips along the way.... But it seems like what I got more of was 'your can isn't gonna work - its not big enuff - you need more coal - its not getting hot enuff' along with being ridiculed for NOT foiling my grill and drinking Hammies..... I can take that --- but for the most part there hasn't really been any constructive input as to HOW people run their vortexs until recently. Thanks to the people that DID add constructive input.

If you can tell me what you are doing and why and what the outcome is ---- great! Just saying 'run it as hot as you can possibly get it' just doesn't cut it.
 
I’ll make it as simple and clear as I can,
1- full chimney
2- foil to ease cleanup, vents fully open!
3-chicken (thighs, wings, NOT boneless skinless breasts, which will dry out in the blink of an eye)
4- when the vortex if fully involved, set grill to pre heat
5- add chicken
6-take a look after maybe 20 minutes, turn lid if desired, I do not.
7- at 40 minutes in, wings and thighs are generally done.
8- remove, and enjoy.

I don’t care if you foil or not, it is just less work on the “back end” of a cook for me, the heat can cause grease fire faster than a jackrabbit can make love though.

And as for beverage of choice, you’re paying, get whatever YOU want, I’ll take Johnny Walker Blue if available! But, it’s not always so, I’ve become imbibulous after almost fifty years playing music so, I’m not against Hamms, just not a preferred way to pay for water.

Now, does that help? That’s about as much ”Skoolin’ as I can “Learn ya” from here out it’s all practice, don’t burn yourself.
 
I hope my last post didn't come off too harsh..... but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around all this high heat cooking.... I don't own an air fryer - I assume if you set it at 450 the air in it is 450 --- so the need for 700+ still baffles me. My bigger concern gleaned from the last two cooks is over cooked mushy meat from the high temps needed to properly crisp the skin..... thats something I haven't run into before with LnS and thought was pretty concerning.

Rich's post was most inspiring! I have a new goal once I get this all figured out. I'm only 4 cooks into can/bowl cooks...

The whole reason I picked up the kettle was because the WSM struggles to crisp skin and is inefficient for small cooks --- I was hoping the kettle would take care of those problems. So far I have yet to dial it in --- but I think I'm on the way.

Thanks to the board.
 
3-4 meals is my limit --- they still taste great, but I'd rather have fresh.
At that point I'm just back to the WSM cooking two whole chickens at a time and having pulled chicken sammys.
 
I bought mine from Marty too, both of them in fact. Supporting a member here and made in the states is a plus!
I just wish Weber made a GBS for the 18 that was scaled down in the center, the one they make just uses inserts for the 22. That doesn’t leave much room for vortex use as far as grate space goes. I understand not wanting to tool up for an entire set of inserts but, Gee!

I just wish they made GBS at all for the 26er . . .





BD
 
I'll just say I'm NOT using a full chimney of coal for five thighs..... Thats just silly.

This is my procedure for wings (Costco family pack) on my 26er, so your results will vary.

What I do is put one flat layer of briquettes in the bottom area of the Vortex. Then I get the small Weber chimney going. When it's ready, I dump those on top of the briquettes in the bottom of the Vortex. I put the lid back on for 10 minutes to give it time to get the cold coals started. Then I line my wings up around the Vortex, drummets facing the center and the flats (skin side down) around the outside. Oh, and I also do foil around the Vortex for easier cleanup.

It's less than an hour from the time that I light the little cubes until I'm pulling wings off the grill.

I know that's probably more than you like to cook at one time, I usually end up with 40+ wings, but I cannot see only cooking 4-5 thighs at a time.

To each his own I guess.





BD
 
Close the vents, extinguish the vortex, fill with half chimney the next time. (That coal management is basic kettle science)
I haven't found that to be really effective in my kettle - there is a definite wobble on the lid in one position ~1/32" - but if I turn it 90 degrees its not as bad..... I've been concerned that there is a leak that doesn't snuff it out fast enuff..... but 'B' said that it does take ~45 minutes to cool down..... The WSM snuffs out IMMEDIATELY...... but I always find the half coals to be very light and I have no way of knowing what their heat content really is --- I know its not the same heat content per volume or weight vs fresh coals --- so every time you use them its a gamble. Sure they still burn..... but for how long and how hot???? Rolling the dice. Do you put them on TOP of the fresh coals or do you put them under where they will just fall thru the grate faster? The best use I have for them is to pour lump on top to keep all the fines from falling thru.
 
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Some nice cooks there Jim.
Because it's just the two of us I mostly use my Jumbo Joe for charcoal cooks. Lot easier than firing up the performer.
I wanted a vortex for it also but the medium I have for the performer is too big for the JJ. So, my solution was a $2.50 Walmart SS dog bowl, I cut the bottom out of it, works perfect. Took a spare grate I had for it and cut the center out of it so it's easy to add more wood and also it doesn't screw up the grates from the excess heat.
Win-win.
Yep, gloves and long handle tools are a must with the vortex.

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Great Cook and Love your "doggie quote" which is so true. Our Rescue pup "Manchas" adopted us in the Year 2010 and now still going strong with a age of around fourteen(14) years. I have both the Small and Medium size Vortex for my Weber Performer Deluxe and Weber Master Touch Grills and are great products.
 

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I know I’m coming in late on this thread but in my humble opinion the Vortex is a version of char baskets. I love my Vortex and after using it wide side down and wide side up, I prefer wide side up for all cooks using it. It is easier to load and light in that position, I have not noticed any difference in cooking in either position so I chose the easiest for me. The WSK needs less fuel to cook so the Vortex is a fuel management tool for me.
 
Thats what I was hoping for too on the kettle - a tool to maximize the (useable) heat out of the minimum amount of coals. I'm seeing what I estimate to be ~150-200 temp difference between the up/down usage of my bowl -- hard to say since the thermo is pegged past the numbers so I just have to guess and compensate for range shrinkage at the high end of the scale.

I'm finding it pretty amusing that over here I'm getting the advise to 'run it wide open as hot as it will get' while on the gun forum smoker thread people are saying 'why the hell are you cooking chicken at HELLFIRE temps?'..... I know the right answer is in the middle somewhere. I'm convincing myself that for what I'm doing that 600-650 is the right range for what I'm expecting as an outcome. Much hotter than that and the skin shrinks/splits/pulls back and there is a real risk of overcooking the meat --- much lower than that and the skin doesn't render to the point I'm after in a reasonable time frame. So now I am at the point of figuring out whether I run it big side up that holds temp just right wide open but needs more coals for the cook or do I run it small side up and throttle it back to temp (hopefully) using less coal and leaving the ability to open the vents as the heat dies down..... I haven't tried this one yet, but is next on the list..

I only 'need' to cook 5-6 thighs for myself most of the time but want to be able to do a whole flat at once when needed. Coming off the confidence of the last cook I decided I was going to try a whole flat! I set it up the same way as before (so I thought - more later) and let it rip!

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It was holding a nice 600-650 as I expected.....
~30 minutes in -- NICE color and the skin rendering nicely.....

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It was right after I took that pic that the temp started to dip...... dammit....... It was dropping down to the 450-500 range and looking like it was going to continue dropping. I was torn between letting it run out or adding more coal to boost the temps back up. I chose the hard route and added 5-7 more coals thinking that would do it ---- yeah - you all know what it took to add coals to the bowl..... Waited for the white smoke from the fresh coals to burn off and back cooking.... After ~ 10 minutes it was obvious it wasn't going to bring the temps up that much --- and I was kicking myself for NOT flipping the bowl over to hopefully generate more heat..... So I decided to pull the grate AGAIN to flip the bowl and added some more used coal to the bowl --- I figured the used coal wouldn't smoke nearly as bad since it had already been burned off. OK - temps back up - but running a bit hotter than I wanted ~700ish. It was at that point that I realized that I had omitted the 'big chunk of plum wood' in the bowl that I had in the previous cook --- that chunk was probably worth 10-15 coals worth of heat and why I didn't have this problem before..... so mental note made. The reason I didn't put the wood chunk in the bowl is because I realized on the last cook that the chunk was burning waaaay too clean and not really producing much smoke (pellet burner syndrome) --- thats why I put the (somewhat smaller) chunk on the grate which did produce smoke the whole time.

I finished them out - didn't quite get the crispyness that I wanted before glazing, but I didn't want to over cook them either.

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Notice that the skins are still nicely attached and not peeling off ---- thats what I tend to see when cooking at higher temps.
I was upset with myself because I had missed my target for this cook --- but they still ended up being TASTY as hell! I split the cook with my neighbor --- who said 'I don't need 5or6 thighs' to begin with but I gave him 5 anyways --- he agreed that those were some of the tastiest thighs I've ever done! He said that they were perfectly seasoned with a nice bite, but surprisingly lacking much smoke flavor. I forced him to take 5 so that he could experience the leftover/reheats --- THATS when the flavors really come out! I ran into him yesterday and he told me 'Damn --- you were right - I could REALLY taste the smoke after sitting in the fridge overnight'. I was really happy to let him get the taste of the reheats - to me, its usually BETTER 'flavor' than fresh off the grill altho it tends to lack the right texture.... (unless you reheat them correctly - micro + toaster oven gets it back to fresh pretty closely).

Another data point - mental notes taken - adjustments will be made on the next cook. You don't learn from success..... you gain knowledge from problems, mistakes and failures. Thank god even my mistakes and failures still end up being tasty! A good friend of mine -- who is a bbq junkie -- once commented that 'you can have nicely smoked chicken or crispy skin -- I've NEVER had both' ----- I've been on a quest to have BOTH.

I (and my neighbor) can't wait for chicken to go on sale again!
 
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I'll just say I'm NOT using a full chimney of coal for five thighs..... Thats just silly.
Always Fill Weber Chimney 3/4 with Briquets to grill six(6) chicken legs and six(6) Chicken thighs on the 22" Weber Kettle for the Wife and I. We only buy six(6) large Chicken Chicken Legs which are cut at the joint which gives me twelve(12) pieces which fits nicely on my Weber Kettle in doing a indirect cook and giving us chicken meals for the next couple of days.
 

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