Ist Butt Issues


 
Scott C.

Scott C.

TVWBB Super Fan
I'm in the middle of doing my first butts and jeez, and its taking forever. I had 2 Sams bone in at around 8 lbs each. Put them on at 4 AM CST Sat morning hoping they would be ready for dinner. It's now 8PM Sat and I got it to 225 within 30 minutes and its been right on the money at 225 now for 16 hours with the DX2. The slightly smaller one is at 178 and the larger is at 172. I can't believe this is taking so long. The wife and kids already baled and ordered a pizza. Bummer.

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Fast forward, it's now 9 AM CST on Sunday. Gosh what a night. Around 4AM CST, after tending these butts for 24 hours at a rock steady 225, they were still only at 188 & 190. Following the advice I've read on other posts, I resist the tempation to bring up the temp, and set the Maverick to alarm at 195 and get a little shuteye.

8AM comes, still no alarm and they are at 190 and 192. 28 freaking hours??? I thought at first perhaps the probes were bad, but the Thermopen confirmed the temps. I just pulled them and while they have a nice bark, and a little squishy, they are not falling apart. Tried twisting the bones a bit and they didn't just break away, so I left them for now. I wrapped them in foil and put them in the cooler. They seem pretty dry, but I saved the drippings and we'll see what happens when I try to pull them.

What the heck? Following all of the posts, I was figuring 12 to 16 hours max. But, 28 hours and still they never got to 195? I went through one full 20 lbs bag of charcoal and another quarter at least. The temp was at exactly 225 the whole time. No water, just the clay wrapped saucer. I dunno but I'm thinking 225 is just too low. I leaning towards doing 250 next time and definitely wrapping after they get to ~160. I did not wrap this time, and if they are dried out even after spritzing with AJ every couple of hours, I guess that means I have to wrap if I go with no water in the pan? I think I'll do the deboned too, just in case the probes were too close to the bone?

Gosh, I thought butts were the easiest?? Ribs, brisket, pork sirlions, no real problems. Everything pretty much runs as expected. However, I try a butt and everything turns upside down on me? I don't get it??
 
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I've done more butts than anything on my WSM and a few things come to mind. Likewise, I only used a foiled clay saucer. I'm still yet to wrap a butt in foil and put it back on the smoker. I'll wrap/hold once they hit 190/195, but that's it. If you're trying for an internal temp of 195 with a pit temp of 225, that's only a 30 degree difference. As you know, that takes a long time to achieve and the thicker cut of meat you have - the worse it is. Some cuts are more stubborn than others and it's possible you just got a couple of those.

Personally, I don't have any issues with kicking up the temps a bit. When I fire it up around midnight, I'll aim for an overnight temp close to 225 ish. But in the AM, I'll let it breath a bit more for a 250 temp. 12-14 hours is pretty typical for me but I have gone 18 or a bit longer before. 28 hours? Holy crap...
 
Wow! That is a long time. I generally do my butts at a little bit higher temp. Usually around 275. A typical 8lb butt takes 12-ish hours, and is usually extremely falling off the bone tender when it's done. :)
 
Spritzing doesn't add moisture to the butt it just adds another flavour profile to your meat. It also slows down the cooking process. Everytime you lift the lid you let the heat out and the evaporation of the spritz has the same cooling affect as your body sweating. As Chad said the closer your meat gets to your cooking temp the slower the temp will rise.

The moistness of the meat is caused by the break down of fat fibers that are attached to the muscle fibres. If you don't cook it long enough you get dry tough meat. If you cook it to long you get dry crumbly meat. There is plenty of fat in the butt so you really need to over cook one to make it dry.
 
Sorry to hear it didn't go well. Something is certainly not right. Time and temperature are the two factors and since you already know the time, that just leaves temperature. I know you said you checked temp with another thermometer. Where were you measuring temp from. I don't think you could have been 225 at the meat. But then again I haven't cooked at 225 for so long.

A little more information would help
 
That's amazing... and the reason I switched to high heat pork butts... didn't like getting up so early to start them. I don't use water in the pan - just foil it - and run my WSM around 300-350 degrees. I DO foil the butt, but only after it's probe tender and 195 or higher, let it rest foiled in a cooler for an hour or so, then pull. Probably no help for your situation, but you might want to try it once to see how you like the results. Wife and I can't really tell any difference between HH and low-n-slow....
 
I started to post that there was no way that those butts actually cooked at 225*, until I read the part where you said you spritzed every couple of hours. In my experience, spritzing butts doesn't do anything but stretch out a cook. Anyhow, cooking butts at 225* is fine, as long as that is near the center of the grate. Way too slow though, if the probe is in the top vent or at the edge of the grate. In that case, you'd be just warming them to death. I cook a little faster on the average, but I'm pretty dern sure that butts are done in under 2hr/lb if actually cooked at 225*, center of the wsm grate and you leave the lid on. Also, you don't need to wrap butts on the wsm, water in the pan or not. The water pan helps tremendously to even out the grate temps, but isn't necessary for moist butts and tender bark. Temp spikes are what toughens the bark, but you can still end up with plenty moist BBQ cooking even hotter than 275*. The bark might just be a little tough. Anyhow, I'd suggest just leaving the lid on and making sure that the butts are actually cooking somewhere between 225-250*. Be sure to post back after your next butt cook's success!

Regards,
Dave
 
We've all been there. Live and learn.

After trial and error, I am one that also cooks a pork butt 250 - 275* without water in the pan using vents only. I think water makes mushy BBQ and 225* takes too long. The last time I did two butts (one 8# and one 9#) it took 11.5 hrs (without opening the cooker) and I pulled them off at 180* internal. As mentioned internal temp is only one indicator of doneness. A loose bone is another and probe tender is the most important. It can be probe tender and a loose bone at 180* and pull great.

Good luck on the next cook. Keep a log of what you did so you can make corrections for what you did wrong and repeat what you did right.
 
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Thanks for the input guys. Just to confirm a few things, yes, the temps were all accurate. I was using a Maverick and the DX2 probes and double-checked everything with the Thermopen. I used the grill probes from both units and had them attached to the grate 1/2 in between the meat and the wall, on opposite sides and both were within a degree or two the whole time. On the meat temp probes I put the Maverick one in the larger one, and the DX2 in the smaller one. However, by smaller, it was only 1/4 lbs smaller, and they both tracked within 2-3 degrees the whole time. As such, temp-wise, I definitely ran two 8 lbs butts unwrapped at 225 degrees for 28 hours total, and ended at 190/192 when they just stalled there.

That said, on the spritzing, it's not like I pulled the lid and set it aside. Whenever spritzing for anything, I just tilt up the front edge of the lid just enough the spray around the 270 degrees, and usually the temp only drops a few degrees and it's back on track within 5 minutes. With the DX2, it senses the lid being up and stokes the fire, so that helps alot. I probably spritzed 6 times over the duration, so I'm not sure that solely accounts for the ~12 to 14 extra hours? I do agree there might be a number of things at play here between lifting the lid and the spritz evaporation, so I will not spritz the butts next time. Also as Chad mentioned, the last few hours, I noticed the meat temps only going up around a degree an hour, so there is definitely something to the lower 225 grill temp. I will do 250 next time.

Now the good news. I let them set wrapped in the cooler for about an hour, and unwrapped them. At first they looked pretty over done, and at that point I was in salvage mode. When I pulled the bone and started shredding them, I was amazed. It was beautiful, nice and juicy, and the smoke ring and bark was superb. It was so juicy that when I was using the Food Savor, I had to notch down the suction so I didn't fill the tray with the juices. I will say I used the wrong rub - just an average rib rub. I meant to make Chris Lilly's recipe, but I was missing the oregano and the cumin, so I just grabbed the left over Scholfields Rib Rub I had sitting from an earlier rib test. However, using the peach chunks was quite noticable and a nice step up. So I ended up with just over 9 lbs I guess of some pretty good pulled pork, certainly better than anything you can get at a restaurant around here.

Hopefully a few tweaks will help be tighten up with cook window, as I'm just so glad we didn't invite friends over for dinner last night! That's my worse fear.

*** Oops, almost forgot the pics! Hmmm, I can't figure out how to upload them???
 
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Scott C. said:
Now the good news. When I pulled the bone and started shredding them, I was amazed. It was beautiful, nice and juicy, and the smoke ring and bark was superb.
*** Oops, almost forgot the pics! Hmmm, I can't figure out how to upload them???
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Awesome! Very glad to hear the results, while way late, were still top notch. At least you got a 'taste' of what the pulled pork should look/taste like after it's all done. So, when is the next pork butt going on? :D

For the photos - you need to upload them to a hosting site like Photobucket, Flicker, Picassa, etc... Can't upload directly to the forum from your computer.
 
Scott C. said:
Thanks for the input guys. Just to confirm a few things, yes, the temps were all accurate. I was using a Maverick and the DX2 probes and double-checked everything with the Thermopen. I used the grill probes from both units and had them attached to the grate 1/2 in between the meat and the wall, on opposite sides and both were within a degree or two the whole time. On the meat temp probes I put the Maverick one in the larger one, and the DX2 in the smaller one. However, by smaller, it was only 1/4 lbs smaller, and they both tracked within 2-3 degrees the whole time. As such, temp-wise, I definitely ran two 8 lbs butts unwrapped at 225 degrees for 28 hours total, and ended at 190/192 ...?
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What's this "attached to the grate 1/2 in between the meat and the wall"? You gotta an 18 or 22? Regardless, sounds like your probe was measuring heat coming up the sides of the cooker walls. Butts simply don't take THAT long at 225!
 
I have a 22. The two butts were side by side centered between the handles on the top rack. So the probes were attached approx 4" inches in from the edge. Eventually the lid thermo matched so I'm pretty sure I was ok on the grill temp? How far in do you need to be?
 
I have cooked many hundreds of butts every which way. If you measured your temp as you said it was much lower at the center of the grate! If you cooked at 225 at the center of the grate it would have been done at 2 hours per pound or less. Add this to removing the lid and spraying and you get a 28 hour cook. This is going to get some folks upset, but....water in the pan "WILL NOT CAUSE ISSUES NOR MUSHY BBQ"! Cook temps is all that matters! For pork shoulers I much prefer water in the pan and temps around 230-250, it renders a great bark that isn't like a thick layer of "Jerky". Have you checked your dome thermometer in boiling water? It is pretty close to grate temps once the cook gets going. The pork shoulder has a lot of fat to render and thats why it will do better at a lower steady temp on a metal cooker when using water! I say all this to say....don't give up on water because of this cook! Trust me when I say "cook temp is what matters"!

Please keep us posted on your future cooks!


Regards,
Glenn W :wsm:
 
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On the probe placement, I thought you have to keep it away from the cold meat so that doesn't skew it either. I had both butts in the middle about an inch or two away from each other. And there was about 3" left to both grate handles. I think in the middle would have been too close to the meat perhaps? I dunno but same with 4 slabs of ribs and briskets and I don't run into excessively long cook times? Still trying to figure this out?
 
Scott C. said:
I have a 22. The two butts were side by side centered between the handles on the top rack. So the probes were attached approx 4" inches in from the edge. Eventually the lid thermo matched so I'm pretty sure I was ok on the grill temp? How far in do you need to be?
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Evidently, farther than I thought. The point is, the grate temp isn't exactly even across it, and that's why I prefer to put a probe closest to the center as possible.

I guess it was a combo of measuring temps hotter than where the butts were, taking the lid off so much, and cooking to a finished temp, not to tenderness. I've had slow smoked butts tender as "early" as the mid 180's. "190" is only a guideline that's pretty dang close for unfoiled butts cooked at around 235-250 or so.
 
All the more reason I asked: Have you checked your dome thermometer in boiling water? It is pretty close to grate temps once the cook gets going.
 
Scott C. said:
On the probe placement, I thought you have to keep it away from the cold meat so that doesn't skew it either. I had both butts in the middle about an inch or two away from each other. And there was about 3" left to both grate handles. I think in the middle would have been too close to the meat perhaps? I dunno but same with 4 slabs of ribs and briskets and I don't run into excessively long cook times? Still trying to figure this out?
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I know what you're getting at, Scott, and for sure, there's merit to measuring hottest temps that will hit the meat. That's the way I like to cook on an offset, and obviously, you can't measure center of grate with one brisket on it. I just put the probe closest to center as possible. Even on the 18.5" wsm, I still like my probe between the two butts. I point the tip downwards below the grate so that the cold butts don't affect it since heat rises. I figure it's pretty dang consistent that way, particularly since I find that one side of the cooker is usually hotter than the other.
 
Glenn W said:
I have cooked many hundreds of butts every which way. If you measured your temp as you said it was much lower at the center of the grate! If you cooked at 225 at the center of the grate it would have been done at 2 hours per pound or less. Add this to removing the lid and spraying and you get a 28 hour cook. This is going to get some folks upset, but....water in the pan "WILL NOT CAUSE ISSUES NOR MUSHY BBQ"! Cook temps is all that matters! For pork shoulers I much prefer water in the pan and temps around 230-250, it renders a great bark that isn't like a thick layer of "Jerky". Have you checked your dome thermometer in boiling water? It is pretty close to grate temps once the cook gets going. The pork shoulder has a lot of fat to render and thats why it will do better at a lower steady temp on a metal cooker when using water! I say all this to say....don't give up on water because of this cook! Trust me when I say "cook temp is what matters"!

Please keep us posted on your future cooks!


Regards,
Glenn W :wsm:
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A yep, an Amen, and a clap, clap, clap! ;)
 
Yes I just checked it after your first post and its good. I will try to get closer to the middle next time and move the meat out I guess?
 
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