Is this a continuous valve? Genesis II NG to LP


 
I think the thing to keep in mind is that the orifice only controls the Max heat output. The valve controls everything less than Max, and the problem that many people run into when doing a gas conversion from NG to LPG is that they can't get the temps as low as they could before the gas change. Single burner on low, does it go low enough for your needs?
 
Thanks for the feedback.

Right after recording the flames for posterity, I put everything back in (flavor bars and grills) to do a test. That’s when it got to 500 in 7 min. It kept going towards 600 and I shut it down. I did try all burners at low at around 500 and it slowly increased temp.
 
Ed Pinnell said:
I think the thing to keep in mind is that the orifice only controls the Max heat output. The valve controls everything less than Max, and the problem that many people run into when doing a gas conversion from NG to LPG is that they can't get the temps as low as they could before the gas change. Single burner on low, does it go low enough for your needs?
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Haven’t tried just one burner on low, I will add that to my tests. Thanks!

My thought/hope, is that I have too much propane coming out of the orifice and it’s pressure is causing control issues. Maybe I can gain a bit more control through the valve if I back off the max. Not really sure if that’s how it works.
 
Jim, please understand that this is an engineered system and you have to regard a system in its entirety. The valves are designed for a specific gas at a specific pressure and a specific range of orifices that will provide an adequate back pressure that the valve is designed to work with. If you change one part of a system, it may or may not work in harmony with the other components. That's why it is strongly recommended that you change the entire system when you go from one gas to another...it eliminates a lot of the headache.
 
Ed, this stuff goes on and on and on and on. No matter how you try to explain it seem like advice is disregarded. Sadly Weber is to blame for much of this. They could EASILY engineer the grills to be converted cheaply, safely and easily. Hell if Charbroil can do it why can't Weber. But, sadly even when you advise folks seems to go in one side and out the other. I really wish the whole thing could be a sticky but then it would not stop it. At least in this case the worst they're seeing is the grill running hotter than expected at low settings. But go the other way, and you can have a seriously dangerous issue
 
Bruce said:
I still don't fully understand the physics of the issue, but I have come to realize that converting a Weber grill is bet done by swapping entire manifolds.
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And truthfully, that's really all a person needs to know...but then there are those that say "It's easy!" and "I've done it and it works great!", so I guess the caveat would be YMMV. And if a simple orifice change doesn't meet one's expectations, at that point it becomes a rabbit hole.
 
Yah, swapping out orifices to give it a shot is not a bad idea. Great if it works, and not much lost if it doesn't.
 
I came into this with my eyes open, I knew the outcome was probably in doubt, as I have read many of the posts on this subject here in TVWBB. Thanks for all the great info BTW! Figured after looking at the valve, that it might be continuous (pics attached to thread) and figured I give it a shot.

I would put my “experimentation” squarely on Weber for not selling a new LP valve or manifold to someone who doesn’t have the serial number from a lp model (someone willing to share theirs? :)). You could say it’s because of liability, but they trust you to swap your own replacement LP manifold. Looking at the schematics the only real difference between the LP version of my grill is the manifold, regulator, and tank holder.

I understand the concerns and consternation around the orifice replacement. I have looked for manifolds on many websites, including the ones mentioned on this forum, but they are out of stock at the moment. (If you see a source in stock, please let me know) ( also looking at Craigslist daily).

So given the options of selling my grill for 50-70% off original cost and buy a new LP model or let it sit do nothing, I opted to try this to see if the valves were indeed continuous. Also thought about buying a cheapo LP grill to get me by, seemed like a waste to do that. At least we will know for sure if these odd looking valves work, don’t work, or somewhat work.

Thanks for all your help folks!
 
Ed Pinnell said:
And truthfully, that's really all a person needs to know...but then there are those that say "It's easy!" and "I've done it and it works great!", so I guess the caveat would be YMMV. And if a simple orifice change doesn't meet one's expectations, at that point it becomes a rabbit hole.
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Yep, it’s a fail if I lose more than 10-15% of pre-conversion temp control. I can barely grill properly as it is with a well functioning Weber.
 
JimWS said:
Yep, it’s a fail if I lose more than 10-15% of pre-conversion temp control. I can barely grill properly as it is with a well functioning Weber.
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If I were in your shoes, I think I could learn to live with it if I could dial it down low enough for my needs. It might be kind of twitchy (sensitive/reactive to valve setting changes) but once I learned how it drives it might be ok, or at least until something better comes along. But full transparency on the day you transfer that grill to anyone, right?
 
Ed Pinnell said:
If I were in your shoes, I think I could learn to live with it if I could dial it down low enough for my needs. It might be kind of twitchy (sensitive/reactive to valve setting changes) but once I learned how it drives it might be ok, or at least until something better comes along. But full transparency on the day you transfer that grill to anyone, right?
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Will keep that in mind. if I can can get the temp down on the next orifice tryout, will try to grill a steak to temp. If I can do that then it’s good enough for now.

Well on transfer I would probably convert it back to gas before I sold it. Don’t want anyone getting tripped up on this serial number thing if they ever had to order a replacement part.

Sounds like you did a conversion without a manifold change….did you drill out your orifice? Did you get the right BTU on the first drill if so? Just curious how others did with there orifice drill.

Seems to me the top 3 things that effect the success of a conversion in order are: 1. Valve. 2. Orifice drill size. 3. Air mixture. The first one I can’t control and I seemed to have bungled #2.
 
JimWS said:
Sounds like you did a conversion without a manifold change….did you drill out your orifice? Did you get the right BTU on the first drill if so? Just curious how others did with there orifice drill.

Seems to me the top 3 things that effect the success of a conversion in order are: 1. Valve. 2. Orifice drill size. 3. Air mixture. The first one I can’t control and I seemed to have bungled #2.
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No, I haven't tried a conversion. I look at a valve spool and try to figure out how the heck does that work and then I realize just how little I understand about how this whole thing works.
 
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I still think it's on Weber. And IMO it's wrong of Weber to stick someone with buying a new grill because they either gained or lost a desired fuel. Back when we had Bob's Ace Hardware here, they actually sold full manifolds on the shelf. Likely because many homes here in the rural parts of the counties Bob's served were being (like Bruce) over from LP to NG. So they could simply walk into Bob's buy what they needed and have their grill up and running easily without excess $$$ out the door.
Hell many of the LP suppliers around here were gas grill dealers as well. Selling brands like Ducane, Broilmaster, Holland, PG, and so on. All of them offered a way to EASILY and relatively inexpensively switch fuel.
Re, doing your own conversion, once you truly understand the dynamics of the 2 fuels it's actually pretty easy. I have done many of them with a high level of success but always with the caveat. Once it's switched from LP to NG you can never go back. Which also means if you have an OEM NG Weber you cannot do a switch from NG to LP (effectively). And while that conversion is NOT "unsafe" it is inconvenient. But, Ed earlier hit the nail on the head. What so many fail to realize is the main orifice only limits the maximum flow of gas. Everything else is done by the valve(s).
Now 'scuse me while I try to gently lower my big fine old body down off my box :D
 
So here is my second attempt. I drilled using the 65 bit, which is .035 inch giving 8500 BTU. So dialed the orifice size way back down. But I am likely getting more than that because of previously discussed reasons. I am really probably around the 63 or 62 bit range about 10,000 BTU, but this is purely a SWAG. This is what the burner looks like now.


The flames look anemic compared to the first attempt. I was able to get to 500 degrees in 11.5 min, better than previous night’s 7 min, which seemed too hot. That is in the range of what Webber said should happen, 500 in 10-15 min. But it took almost 8 more min to get to 550, seems a little long. Didn’t wait for 600. Else I might of been there all night.

Was able to hold 500 drgrees with all 3 burners at low. Improvement as previously with 3 burners at low the temp would still increase. Could not hold temp using only one or 2 burner at low.

So then…..the temp control seems better than the first attempt, but feel like it’s taking too long to reach above 500 degrees. Although not sure if that is really out of whack with other Weber genesis grills. Maybe someone can tell me if that’s normal. Thinking of drilling one or 2 sizes larger (64 or 63 drill bit) to get the grill a few more BTUs to reach the higher temps.
 
Here's the deal. As I indicated earlier. Given the photos and my lack of familiarity with the newer Genesis lines I indicated you could give it a try. Worst case is you would not have the control you would like to have. Well you have worst case. It's not unsafe. But, it is inconvenient. At least you don't have a potential bomb waiting for you when you open the lid. It's your decision if it can be lived with.
LP and NG are similar in some ways BUT in an appliance they behave quite differently as you have now witnessed. So now you have a choice. Get an actual LP manifold or live with this. In either case you will not have an unsafe appliance
 
500 degrees in under 15 minutes is good. I see no problem there. It should slow down at that point. What do you need to cook that requires more than 500 degrees?

I think you should concentrate more on the low end. What happens if turn off two burners and put one burner on low? Do you get down into the low 200 range when temps level out?
 
If I use only one burner on low, it will drop to 275 degrees. 2 burners on low are around 410. Hard to tell at times as it can rise or drop slowly, so you think it’s stable when it isn’t. If I think it’s stable I will go away for five minutes and come back. If it hadn’t moved then it’s stable.

On the high end, I used to cook pizza on the grill at 700 degrees. It also seemed to get to a higher temp faster but my mind might be a bit fuzzy in my old age. I use an Ooni pizza oven now so I don’t need the high temps anymore.

My intention here is not to get right on the mark as that’s impossible, garnered from what I have read here and other places. (Unless really really really lucky). It is to get as close as I can, so that it’s useable until I can buy a manifold or someone gifts me one, j/k.

So in that Spirit, pun intended, I redrilled my orifice a smaller hole to walk my way up to acceptable performance, as discussed earlier. I screwed up my first drill up even though I thought I had backed off enough, underestimated how variable my drilling method was. I assume going one drill size up will not be as variable as drilling a new hole, but that has not been proven out.

If the experts, this is not sarcasm, tell me that this is as good as needed and to proceed no further, then let the grilling begin again to a grill brought back to life.
 
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