Is The Smokefire a Failure or Success and What Proves It?

[Scott Smith]

Ultimately, I think Weber watched to see how the market for pellet went. It’s still a relatively new method. Are they late? Not necessarily.

Let’s be honest: the market for charcoal is limited and maybe even declining. As a diehard charcoal lover, that’s tough to say. But today’s consumer largely doesn’t want the dedication to time and mess dealing with charcoal, they want the convenience that pellet offers. Gas and pellet are the future, I suspect Weber will always (hopefully) offer charcoal but I don’t see that market growing.

They HAD to get into pellet. And I think they did a mighty fine job. Unfortunately things get blown way out of proportion online and an otherwise good/great product (yes, with some quirks) has a black eye. One that I personally don’t agree with.

Posts like this always fascinate me because the simple ability to control fire seems to be becoming a lost art among certain segments of the population.

The original grill/BBQ was with wood, obviously. People bought into charcoal because it really was better. You could still do it at home alone with a handful of briquettes, a tailgate party on the road with a bag, or scale up to a family reunion or bigger because charcoal doesn't rely on a fancy cooker. A cooker with only a handful of parts to create a lid and vents completed the experience. The need for a separate fire to create hot coals was eliminated, as was any need for a wood pile or wood cutting tools at all. Controlling the fire became easier, but you still had to know how to do it.

Pellets are not nearly as reliable, affordable, versatile, or backward compatible as charcoal or wood. The age-old skill of controlling fire is replaced with long lists of parts and technologies integrated together into a machine that controls the fire for you.

So we wait and see what happens. Flint and steel won over fire by friction. Matches over flint and steel. Lighters over matches. More technology and less skill each time. I just think it will be a long time before pellet grills have the edge over charcoal that lighters have over flint and steel.

 

[Tony-Chicago]

Lots of good points up top.
I take the question as asked. Business. Impression/market. Sales. Capital.

We could go on about things. How well it cooks. How well..... what they could have done different. Errors. Simple. This and that. Blah blah blah. (Including me.)

But the bottom line is for now,

We would not be asking this question if it was a smashing success world-beater

 

[Darian Hofer]

I believe If Weber would have taken a little more time in testing and introduced what we call Gen 3 as the first version they would be in much better shape now. Especially with all the dealers who got stuck discounting and dumping the early models. And the customs with no skills to swap out upgraded parts. Did Weber step up and stand behind the product…yes, and I highly commend them for helping out their customers. But the warranty on the Smokefire is not that long for the price point compared to their gassers.
But honestly, the Smokefire launch was a fail because it was rushed to market. If this were a $500 pellet pooper hitting the market I would tolerate the shortcomings. At $1600 plus…it damn sure should have been better before launching Gen 1. This point is proven by all the updates Weber made in a very short time period. Are we Gen 4 already?

 

[Jon Tofte]

I personally have to believe that from a sars and financial perspective, the SmokeFire has come up well short if Weber’s hopes and expectations. I point to it’s disappearance from virtually all major retailer outlets as evidence. However, we have seen way too many great cooks to say the SmokeFire has been a technical failure. Rushed to market, built in a number of places with less than adequate durability and still struggling with software issues - yes. But when it works it has been proven to be one of the best out there.

 

[TimA]

Posts like this always fascinate me because the simple ability to control fire seems to be becoming a lost art among certain segments of the population.

I hope that wasn’t directed at me, because out of 18 grills, all but 4 are kettles, and those 4 consist of two Weber gas, a Green Moutain pellet and Smokefire. Maybe that’s why the little nuances of the Smokefire don’t bother me, I’m used to tending charcoal and it’s just part of it.

Just wanted to be clear where I personally stand. I enjoy the hands on approach to charcoal and the little tricks to success. And I’ve got an LSG on the list although that damn thing has ballooned about $400 this year.

It’s become an unspoken that when I have a cook, it’s an entire day set aside to the grill(s) and food. I’m not going anywhere, not doing anything more than stuff right there at the house; I give a general time where I’d like to eat but the family has learned that the meat is the boss that day and can be done early or a little late or pretty much on time.

But guys I know don’t even have a kettle and have no interest. They have a pellet (or an electric smoker that uses wood chips) and maybe a gasser and that’s it. I did finally talk my boss into charcoal, but it’s the Masterbuilt gravity. He would rather spend $800 than $200 for added “convenience”.

 

[Scott Smith]

I hope that wasn’t directed at me, because out of 18 grills, all but 4 are kettles, and those 4 consist of two Weber gas, a Green Moutain pellet and Smokefire. Maybe that’s why the little nuances of the Smokefire don’t bother me, I’m used to tending charcoal and it’s just part of it.

Just wanted to be clear where I personally stand. I enjoy the hands on approach to charcoal and the little tricks to success. And I’ve got an LSG on the list although that damn thing has ballooned about $400 this year.

It’s become an unspoken that when I have a cook, it’s an entire day set aside to the grill(s) and food. I’m not going anywhere, not doing anything more than stuff right there at the house; I give a general time where I’d like to eat but the family has learned that the meat is the boss that day and can be done early or a little late or pretty much on time.

But guys I know don’t even have a kettle and have no interest. They have a pellet (or an electric smoker that uses wood chips) and maybe a gasser and that’s it. I did finally talk my boss into charcoal, but it’s the Masterbuilt gravity. He would rather spend $800 than $200 for added “convenience”.

Not directed at anybody here, but rather at the guy who can't get a fire going, even with a can of lighter fluid.

 

[Brian B Atlanta]

Let’s be honest: the market for charcoal is limited and maybe even declining

A few articles one on the gassers and charcoal. Will try to find something on the Pellet side but Tim I would have guessed that you were correct with your statment regarding charcoal but that does not seem to be the case unless I read the article wrong. The article is on charcoal growth so I would assume its good news for the makers of charcoal grills also.

Barbeque Grill Market to Exceed US$ 7.96 Billion by 2032 as Trend for Weekend Cookouts Gains Traction

/PRNewswire/ -- The global barbeque grill market size is expected to reach US$ 7.96 Billion in 2032 and exhibit steady growth at a CAGR of 4.5% in the forecast...

www.prnewswire.com

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/PRNewswire/ -- The latest study by Fact.MR on the BBQ charcoal market presents analysis on trends affecting sales globally. It also compiles all-inclusive...

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One on Pellet Grills.

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The NPD Group is a leading provider of consumer and retail information, insights, analytics and solutions. For more than 40 years, we have been the single source for reliable consumer behavior data that helps our clients make smart business decisions.

www.npd.com

 

[RichPB (richlife)]

Thanks for the great discussion! I was initially very interested in the Smoke Fire and in quite a dilemma on whether I might sell off my wonderful Genesis to get a SF. The initial response to the SF put me off for a while and, frankly, I've also come to be somewhat put off about using pellets (personal bias). I've since become even more enamored by my Gennie and have acquired the WSM 14.5, so really feel no significant push to move to a Smoke Fire even if deemed to be great.

But I'm still curious (though just adding to my number of grills is not financially responsible for me). Even if offered a SF at no cost, I'm not sure that the ease and great results from the Genesis and the great smoking from the 14.5 would really entice me to use it much.

So this isn't a real contribution to the discussion, but it may somewhat address the question of "success". I would guess that there are many more like me who don't want to mess with our success.

 

[Darren Lebner]

I simply have a prejudice against grills dependent on electronic/computerized components. And I'm in the hi-tech business!

 

[John Richards]

My two cent's worth as a salesperson - SF has been a disappointment. There certainly was some excitement out of the box but the initial issues really caused some problems. At my place we have people look but rarely buy. It also killed us when all the big box stores dumped there initial inventories at rock bottom prices. We sell a ton of Weber Pellets but both the 4 and 6 haven't been moving and Stealth has not been made available to us (yet). Will it hang on, sure and I am going to guess you'll see some changes in 3 to 4 years.

 

[TimA]

A few articles one on the gassers and charcoal. Will try to find something on the Pellet side but Tim I would have guessed that you were correct with your statment regarding charcoal but that does not seem to be the case unless I read the article wrong. The article is on charcoal growth so I would assume its good news for the makers of charcoal grills also.

Barbeque Grill Market to Exceed US$ 7.96 Billion by 2032 as Trend for Weekend Cookouts Gains Traction

/PRNewswire/ -- The global barbeque grill market size is expected to reach US$ 7.96 Billion in 2032 and exhibit steady growth at a CAGR of 4.5% in the forecast...

www.prnewswire.com

Demand for Grilled Food to Augment BBQ Charcoal Sales by 1.6X through 2031

/PRNewswire/ -- The latest study by Fact.MR on the BBQ charcoal market presents analysis on trends affecting sales globally. It also compiles all-inclusive...

www.prnewswire.com

One on Pellet Grills.

Press Releases Archives

The NPD Group is a leading provider of consumer and retail information, insights, analytics and solutions. For more than 40 years, we have been the single source for reliable consumer behavior data that helps our clients make smart business decisions.

www.npd.com

Interesting reads. Seems a good time to be in the grill biz haha

 

[DanHoo]

My two cent's worth as a salesperson - SF has been a disappointment. There certainly was some excitement out of the box but the initial issues really caused some problems. At my place we have people look but rarely buy. It also killed us when all the big box stores dumped there initial inventories at rock bottom prices. We sell a ton of Weber Pellets but both the 4 and 6 haven't been moving and Stealth has not been made available to us (yet). Will it hang on, sure and I am going to guess you'll see some changes in 3 to 4 years.

This seems to match my a local dealer's sentiment. They have a full-on outdoor living store and carry Weber, BGE, Napoleon, pizza ovens, and one or two pellets. They had two smokefire EX6s on a closeout sale at $899, and it took them months to sell them.

I bought their floor model of the WSK E6 at a bargain, and they said they would not be carrying either the WSK or the smoke fires in the future.

 

[Darian Hofer]

This seems to match my a local dealer's sentiment. They have a full-on outdoor living store and carry Weber, BGE, Napoleon, pizza ovens, and one or two pellets. They had two smokefire EX6s on a closeout sale at $899, and it took them months to sell them.

I bought their floor model of the WSK E6 at a bargain, and they said they would not be carrying either the WSK or the smoke fires in the future.

What is their issue with the Weber Summit Kettle?
I understand their frustration with the Smokefire.

 

[John Richards]

What is their issue with the Weber Summit Kettle?
I understand their frustration with the Smokefire.

From a retail perspective, re-design not needed from the original - failure on the first stand, can't get grates or deflector plates, no accessories to spice things up.

 

[TimA]

This seems to match my a local dealer's sentiment. They have a full-on outdoor living store and carry Weber, BGE, Napoleon, pizza ovens, and one or two pellets. They had two smokefire EX6s on a closeout sale at $899, and it took them months to sell them.

I bought their floor model of the WSK E6 at a bargain, and they said they would not be carrying either the WSK or the smoke fires in the future.

I would imagine that’s dependent on their distributor agreement with Weber.

I know some agreements, not necessarily on grills, require certain branding and stock be on-site or the manufacturer can yank it. I’ve tried to get some details from local place but all I got was minimum orders they have to reach before a truck comes with new stuff.

 

[Brian B Atlanta]

Interesting reads. Seems a good time to be in the grill biz haha

Not so sure about that the competition is fierce and margins low. Container costs kind of blew a lot of stuff up although that is starting to moderate a bit. Obviously those who bought the Smokefire at 799 and 999 and love them would they still love them or even bought them at the current prices of 1100 and 1300 some yes but that is a big jump in price where there are some decent pellet grills for less money kind of comes down to are you needing to downsize to one grill that can do high heat and smoking which the Smokefire obviously does well although and owners of the Smokefire can chime in is the price to do that heavy pellet consumption which you need to factor in. I was really interested in the MB 800 down the road but everything I have read is its a pig on charcoal consumption which is not the case on a Performer or a WSM so you need to factor in charcoal costs which ain't going down.

By the way Traeger has had to increase prices quite a bit also along with many others and the utlmate question is did a lot of these manufactures in the pandemic pull sales forward? You could not go out to eat your grill was falling apart so great time to upgrade since it may not have cost you anything cause your savings not going out to eat covered a new grill get it not everyone goes out to eat like my self 2-3 times a week but even once a week depending what style of restaurant you ate at it was putting money towards a new grill.

I look forward to Webers and Traegers earnings report let see if these price increases have hurt them or not. By the way the charcoal article bodes well for Weber since that is their strength in the charcoal market.

 

[BFletcher]

I look forward to Webers and Traegers earnings report let see if these price increases have hurt them or not.

Would you say that inflation in general will impact overall consumer spending? I'm not smart enough to know how inflation will affect various segments but I think I am smart enough to understand that, in general, spending will decline. Could outdoor cooker spend increase as folks dine out less? Or will both suffer?

 

[DanHoo]

What is their issue with the Weber Summit Kettle?
I understand their frustration with the Smokefire.

Low sales. It sat right next to an XL BGE.

E6 had a $799 price tag.

XL BGE had a platesetter, a basic cart, maybe swing up tables. Don't recall the exact price but it was over $1500.

 

[Shane - glitchy]

I would say a failure because outside of here I see little about the SmokeFire other than making fun of it. Seems they’ve really struggled to get past the negative launch perceptions. I do hope they continue to improve it and keep building the software team and improving practices they need to deliver quality updates that don’t break a bunch of other things.

 

[Chad-Burnt to a T]

IMO it doesn't do better than a kettle or a dedicated smoker. If room is an issue, and you have neither then it may be an option for some. For me it was never an option. It cost more, and doesn't do anything better. Even at the inflated prices of a 22 wsm, and performer you still come in under the price of a SF, and way under if you just get a 22 stand alone kettle. You factor in the issues the price of everything going up, and it's a hard sell. Even without charcoal sales I believe it's still cheaper then pellets. Honestly if I wanted a pellet smoker I would get one from LSG that would kick all others hands down. These cheap toys are getting closer in price to the way over built LSG that will truly last a lifetime. Not to mention 100% USA made. I can't justify a LSG either, but if I did want one I would get it hands down over any other pellet smoker. I still love my charcoal cookers, and I won't part with them.