Is The Smokefire a Failure or Success and What Proves It?


 

Lew Newby

R.I.P. 1/26/2024
This summer the Smokefire did not go on sale as it did the past two summers. Instead, Weber released the Stealth version which costs more. The jungle drums occasionally talk about something but I can't figure out what's they say is coming. Confused. However, this summer our Facebook group is getting the same kind of membership surge as we did during previous sales. Confusing. Is Weber acting like the Smokefire line is a success or failure? I don't have a clue.
 
It's a good question. And why doesn't Weber disclose this detail at least to us TVWBB and Facebook group users, lol? Where has pricing been, was it $1,199, then $999 for several months, then back to $1,199 and now at $1,299? If some of their parts come from China then tariffs could impact what otherwise might have been a sale and transportation costs from any other COA could also have an impact.

I don't at all say this to be negative but I did have one mishap earlier this year with a pellet void and I think I wrote about it (one failed cook was my fault due to a malfunctioning temp monitor probe from another vendor) but another cook was simply a pellet void and I had not removed my finger guard until after that experience. Technically, if folks still need to remove the guard and/or slick the ramp to improve pellet flow then that just simply should not be an action that folks need to take.

Something else I encountered is I began observing considerable temp fluctuations between the left and right sides. But I went to Google one day and saw a comment or two about placement of the diffuser weldment. Mid-cook I shifted it a little bit and then left to right temps were almost dead even and was dead even a couple cooks thereafter. I haven't checked it since then because I don't normally place two probes on my grates, nor have I shifted it back to the other direction again to see if the swings occur, so I admit something other than a little movement of the diffuser could be the remedy. But if it is placement of the diffuser that impacts temperature evenness then that's something else that folks should not need to play with.

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I'm not sure that Weber even knows. I think that they waited way too long to enter the pellet market, then rushed to get out what they had. I believe that their heart and intentions were in the right place, but if they had started even a year earlier, they would have had more time for real-world testing. Overall I would say that the Smokefire is accepted and a success, but the catastrophic launch did them damage that may never heal. In a world prior to Youtube and social media, it may not have been quite as big of a deal.
 
Yeah, for me, the grill is a success as a cooker. I can handle it's quirks. I'm not a retailer so my experience doesn't qualify me to judge if it's a business success or failure. What gives me hope is that Weber keeps improving the Smokefire and that's all I can hang my hat on. BUT, is that enough?
 
Interesting discussion about the Smokefire they don't mention it much in their earnings reports. The fact they did not put it on sale does not mean anything to me as container costs among other things skyrocketed so even if they wanted to does not make any business sense when you are losing money to do that. Kind of like the WSC you price it at X and you sell whatever units but make money on them. The Genesis line is the most important line to them I have posted below their transcript of the earnings call read what you want into it.

 
It's a success in my eyes, too. Some number of us don't mind fiddling with our smokers but I can imagine there are folks who don't want to tweak and learn workarounds. How many folks don't want to do that I don't know, nor do I know if it is impacting sales. I do know I'm delighted with the cooks that come off the SF.
 
Interesting discussion about the Smokefire they don't mention it much in their earnings reports. The fact they did not put it on sale does not mean anything to me as container costs among other things skyrocketed so even if they wanted to does not make any business sense when you are losing money to do that. Kind of like the WSC you price it at X and you sell whatever units but make money on them. The Genesis line is the most important line to them I have posted below their transcript of the earnings call read what you want into it.

That cleared everything up. :ROFLMAO: I agree with your statement about a sale. Reading that, it give me a better understanding of how they're playing the game. It's a wait and see game for now.
The CEO made this statement "Our community even extends outside our own Weber channels with fans who have started forums across Facebook, Reddit and other third-party community sites. These organic forums are great Weber communities. The members sharing their passion for grilling with Weber products on a daily basis. Our marketing and influencer teams actively engage with these forums providing them with access to resources, products and experts." I haven't seen that and I don't think Chris has a free Smokefire. It ain't nice to blow smoke up our skirts.
 
It's a success in my eyes, too. Some number of us don't mind fiddling with our smokers but I can imagine there are folks who don't want to tweak and learn workarounds. How many folks don't want to do that I don't know, nor do I know if it is impacting sales. I do know I'm delighted with the cooks that come off the SF.
Is that not really what counts you are happy sure there are a lot of Pit Boss people for half the price are happy also or Tragear more money lots of happy people there if I had to guess. The Summit Kamado which a lot of members have here are happy with that also. Those don't drive the needle for Weber cause they most likely are low volume units as well as the SmokeFire again if I had to guess. Weber will never breakout Smokefire sales why would you let the comp know how many you are selling? They don't break out Performers or Kettles either which has to be a cash cow for them zero RD costs written off many years ago but they cause of their selling price is not going to drive revenue like the Genesis line
 
Lew not understanding clearing anything up about the SmokeFire maybe you were being sarcastic I have no clue whether Weber considers it a success that would depend on how many units they forecasted and how many they sold and how many were returned. As I replied to B what difference does it make if users are happy that is really all that counts.
 
Little bit of both. It’s not the game changer I was drooling over before it came out and it certainly isn’t what the internet or BBM’s first impression was.
It’s good, it can be much better. I have no problem giving Weber time to get it perfect. In a few years I could see buying the next next Gen.
I was at Lowes today and my biggest concern is pellets, why make a machine that is clearly dependent on a certain size pellet? I want an any size any brand pellet eating machine.
 
As I replied to B what difference does it make if users are happy that is really all that counts.
I may have misunderstood the question; I thought Lew was asking if the SF is a universal success, and perhaps according to Weber.

This reminds me that I certainly commend Weber on an innovative design approach. It seems like that would take guts to pull-off. And I cannot offer scientific evidence but I think it's possible that food off a SF has somewhat a different flavor profile and can offer somewhat different cooks than a traditional pellet smoker. But I want to be careful and express this is just my opinion. Case in point: I know Jon has the Bull (and so do I) and has been tempted toward a SF but he may be a more-skilled cook where his Bull could trump my SF cooks. Or he may someday acquire a SF and perform side-by-side comparisons and offer a different conclusion than my uneducated opinion.
 
Lew not understanding clearing anything up about the SmokeFire maybe you were being sarcastic I have no clue whether Weber considers it a success that would depend on how many units they forecasted and how many they sold and how many were returned. As I replied to B what difference does it make if users are happy that is really all that counts.
Really sorry Brian. I was being sarcastic. Bad carry over from dealing with bureaucrats. When the heavy weights are talking in public they play a lot of word games. I agree with you 100%. The sales numbers drive the game. They will talk about their outreach to the groups not associated with Weber but it seems that more talk and and not much action. I think I've seen some changes in their customer support that focus on cutting cost at the expense of customer satisfaction. As you said, "...what difference does it make....".
 
I may have misunderstood the question; I thought Lew was asking if the SF is a universal success, and perhaps according to Weber.

This reminds me that I certainly commend Weber on an innovative design approach. It seems like that would take guts to pull-off. And I cannot offer scientific evidence but I think it's possible that food off a SF has somewhat a different flavor profile and can offer somewhat different cooks than a traditional pellet smoker. But I want to be careful and express this is just my opinion. Case in point: I know Jon has the Bull (and so do I) and has been tempted toward a SF but he may be a more-skilled cook where his Bull could trump my SF cooks. Or he may someday acquire a SF and perform side-by-side comparisons and offer a different conclusion than my uneducated opinion.
I do have a Recteq RT-700. I would love to buy a SmokeFire and do my own unbiased comparison. But with an out of control collection of grills already, it’s pretty hard to get clearance for another significant outlay.

However, I did pick up an odd pellet kettle that I have posted about separately. Using it several times has caused me to have to rethink what I have previously believed about pellet grilling and just perhaps given some new insight on the SmokeFire.

My Recteq has been a champ of holding steady temperatures. I have always considered that a trophy of its good engineering (and still do) but also thought it was a key to good bbq. I have made consistently good barbecue with my Recteq. I wouldn’t say it is better than when I used the Big Green Egg I used to own, just decent and consistent. Certainly easier, too!

Now enter this odd Landmann pellet kettle. It definitely does not keep a highly consistent temperature but rather fluctuates within a 40 degree or so range. I have noticed, though, that when it chugs up to bring the temp up, each time that is accompanied by a wave of nice smoke. My Recteq, on the other hand, only produces a mild wafting of smoke once it hits the set temperature.

I had an igniter failure on my Recteq (after 4 years) which they promptly helped me replace. In the meantime, I had to fall back on my little Landmann to bail me out. Once with two pork shoulders and more recently with baby back ribs. I didn’t have the highest of expectations, but both times I was taken back by results that I honestly believe exceeded anything I have done on my Recteq and which were at least as good as any Green Egg or kettle bbq I have done:

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One of my guests told me my ribs were the best he had ever had. I know that was mostly flattery, but they were really good, and maybe the best I have made, at least.

So what to make of this, and how does it apply to the SmokeFire? First, I think the very good bark and nice smoke flavor my little kettle produced shows that a grill keeping perfect “low and slow” temperature is not actually where it is all at. In fact, I will be tempted to adjust the temperature up and down repeatedly the next time I use my RT-700. I also wonder whether the SmokeFire’s success in delivering an excellent smoke profile and great bark are not just because of the flavorizer bar design but also due to temperature changes that it either purposely or inadvertently allows.

Not sure of this opinion, but I no longer will evaluate a pellet grill using temperature steadiness as the surest sign of how well it is likely to cook.
 

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I haven't seen that and I don't think Chris has a free Smokefire. It ain't nice to blow smoke up our skirts.
There’s a rep on this very forum that has been very active. Jon something....drawing a blank right now.
 
I don’t know the financials on Smokefire, nor what they expected and what they see in sales. Does it sell like other brands, namely the T one? No. When you essentially create a market, and are the name most widely associated with that, you get that luxury. But they may sue themselves into irrelevance at some point...

Weber is the name in charcoal. Everyone knows that, I refuse to ever buy any of those $40 charcoals at stores because, why? I’ve got the best there is, several of them.

Big Green Egg may be the name in Kamados. With Weber dropping the price on the Summit and re-releasing it as the Kamado, I suspect they are stealing sales. And it’s great, amazing cooker.


I love my Smokefire and having had food off other pellets, it kills everything in flavor profile.
 
Is Weber acting like the Smokefire line is a success or failure?
Lew,

I'm curios what success criteria looks like.

Is it from Weber's point of view? Consumers? Bloggers?

Traegers patent expired in 2006 and the market now has many pellet grills in all shapes and sizes from numerous manufacturers at a wide range of prices.

It took roughly 14 years for weber to join.

I don't know how marketing segments grill and smokers, but I'm curious of the market share for the segment smokefire lands within.

Then, even if successful, is it profitable? Is it contributing to brand loyalty and providing goodwill to webers overall brand?

I guess at the end of the day to me the measure of success is for the owner. Does it bring joy to the dinner table?
 
Lew,

I'm curios what success criteria looks like.

Is it from Weber's point of view? Consumers? Bloggers?

Traegers patent expired in 2006 and the market now has many pellet grills in all shapes and sizes from numerous manufacturers at a wide range of prices.

It took roughly 14 years for weber to join.

I don't know how marketing segments grill and smokers, but I'm curious of the market share for the segment smokefire lands within.

Then, even if successful, is it profitable? Is it contributing to brand loyalty and providing goodwill to webers overall brand?

I guess at the end of the day to me the measure of success is for the owner. Does it bring joy to the dinner table?
Excellent point Dan. I was thinking about the business side. I want it to succeed because I want to see parts availability for what are probably my 10 remaining years. Measuring success by owner satisfaction I'm seeing over 10 people join our FB group every day now and they're buying Smokefires. Most are willing to deal with the shortfalls to get the Smokefire flavor profile and willing to tweak their grill to overcome some of the shortfalls. I'm also seeing better and more knowledgeable reviews showing up on the Internet. Jon has talked about the lack of a presence in big box stores but in that call transcript that Bryan posted, the CFO talked about retail inventories and how they're monitoring that. In Australia and Europe they seem to have enough dedicated BBQ products outlets. I'm hopeful.
 
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Ultimately, I think Weber watched to see how the market for pellet went. It’s still a relatively new method. Are they late? Not necessarily.

Let’s be honest: the market for charcoal is limited and maybe even declining. As a diehard charcoal lover, that’s tough to say. But today’s consumer largely doesn’t want the dedication to time and mess dealing with charcoal, they want the convenience that pellet offers. Gas and pellet are the future, I suspect Weber will always (hopefully) offer charcoal but I don’t see that market growing.

They HAD to get into pellet. And I think they did a mighty fine job. Unfortunately things get blown way out of proportion online and an otherwise good/great product (yes, with some quirks) has a black eye. One that I personally don’t agree with.
 

 

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