I think Weber messed up with the Smokefire

[Shane - glitchy]

MAK owners say their pellet grills produce the best smoke flavor. Those guys are a cult over at The BBQ Brethren.

And then there's Cookshack.

There's a direct correlation between smoke flavor produced and cost of pellet smoke.

I think you’re intending sarcasm, but I’ll bite. While subjective I will say it is both true and it is not. Having had way too many pellet grills, I will say the MAK does put out great smoke for a pellet grill. However, the SmokeFire did just as well if not marginally more. Memphis also puts out great smoke and I’m guessing many of the other American made pits do too. It’s not because they cost more, it’s because of being built different and better. The smoke levels are noticeable over all the cookie cutter mass market smokers. Why? It is because they have differences in design that allow more smoke to rise up from more places inside the chamber, different exhaust systems circulating smoke differently, better controllers with more R&D put into things like fan pulsing to promote more brief smoldering, etc. It’s not hard to imagine that they might cost more since they just didn’t copy Traeger detail for detail and slap a couple gimmicks on it like an ash dump or such and instead actually designed it to be different and better. As well as the materials most of the American made grills use being many times better. Weber is the only real competitor that has the resources to invest craploads into R&D, use decent materials (but still not as thick or the same quality stainless), and still sell for import prices. Some because they are huge, some because they import parts for the SmokeFire.

However, in the end it’s still different smoke than a charcoal smoker and definitely less smoke than a stick burner.

 

[TimA]

MAK owners say their pellet grills produce the best smoke flavor. Those guys are a cult over at The BBQ Brethren.

And then there's Cookshack.

There's a direct correlation between smoke flavor produced and cost of pellet smoke.

I mean, possible. To an extent.

I guess I should have said the typical “budget”, more mainstream units. If one looks at them, regardless of price, all the main “big” names like Traeger, CampChef, Green Mountain, etc are all basically built the same; firebox, under a diffuser plate that also acts as a grease slide to some collection system. The only one that doesn’t is Smokefire. And it’s not because it costs more, it’s cheaper than some Traeger models and on par with most other units.

I’m not trying to hoot up Smokefire too much, but I’m also not willing to drop more than, well $1200 for list EX6 is about the ceiling, so a $3-5k unit is out of the question, as with most folks.

Although I’d certainly love to be in a position where I could buy a $5k unit without batting an eye and seeing first hand how it does.

 

[TimA]

You're where I was last year. I won't get rid of my Smokefire but be prepared for some immature software is you get one. If you accept that you may have to deal with problems then go for it. I belong to a friendly Facebook Group, the Weber Smokefire Woodfired Pellet Grill: Owners Group, and we have an excellent FAQ with a ton of info about the Smokefire. It's worth a look if you're interested.

Hey thanks Lew.

I was on the preorder list when it came out. I don’t recall why but I waited about a week. Told the guys at work that Friday I was ordering it. And for some reason I hopped on YouTube to see if any early results were in, and they were. I watched them pop up and all over online and kept my money.

Short of software, I’m pretty well liking what I see. Being a charcoal guy, tending the pit is part of the job, so pellet bridging doesn’t scare me. Seems the welded auger chute is a solid change, and I’m not convinced most ‘grease fires’ are nothing more than typical flare up that my gas grills and each of my 7 kettles also does. Plus the finish is the best on the market, everything else is just painted and will never hold up like porcelain, and stainless does nothing for me visually.

Software is the kicker at this juncture, which is understandable to a point. There should have been an expectation of some glitches but the early ones were pretty bad.

 

[Bruno]

Love my kettles, LOVE my SmokeFire. I have a couple young kids and the convenience is hard to beat.

 

[Lynn Dollar]

Why? It is because they have differences in design that allow more smoke to rise up from more places inside the chamber, different exhaust systems circulating smoke differently,

Yes, air flow makes a huge difference.

That's what bothers me about the Limo Jr , Assassin 17 et. al. ......... they have very very low air flow. Maybe less than a WSM running at 225 , relatively speaking.

And that's where these cheaper GF's excel. My MB560 has an exhaust port across the back, that is 1.5" wide and 15" long. If ya converted that area to a pipe, it would be 5" diameter . That's huge for this small smoker. The fan drives a lot of air through the cooker.

Downside to that, it burns a lot of charcoal, especially at grilling temps which is one of the reasons I don't use mine for a grill ( along with huge flare ups or grease fires or whatever ya want to call them ) . And like the SmokeFire, I feel like I almost have to use a drip pan ( grease fires ) , and the drip pan alters the air flow through the cooker.

 

[PHolder]

Gravity fed Charcoal smoker? What kind of black magic is this???
I have been a charcoal guy for 30 years. Have had several kettles and have a WSM both I have enjoyed. Was looking at pellets as a one trick pony as I move into retirement. Couldn't come to terms with the lack of smoke flavor and the issues folks have with them regardless of the brand. Now the gravity feed seems to fit the bill. Smoke Lo-N_Slow and grill with the same unit. This may be it. MasterBuilt 560 looks very intriguing

 

[JKalchik]

Gravity fed Charcoal smoker? What kind of black magic is this???

Seems a lot of people regard gravity fed smokers as PFM, so here's the Readers' Digest version.

Imagine a charcoal column with an air tight door at the top. It has a firebox at the bottom, with an air inlet from the outside world, a grate at the bottom of the firebox, with an ash box (and it's airtight door,) below the firebox. The firebox vents into the bottom of the cook chamber, and the smoke travels up through the cook chamber and out through the stack. As the charcoal in the firebox burns, the ashes drop through the grate into the firebox, and the charcoal column above slowly settles thus feeding the fire automatically. The charcoal column, ash door, etc. all have to be air tight, so that the only air getting into the firebox comes through the inlet. The inlet will have a [ball] valve or a blower arrangement for an automatic temperature control. If there's an air leak in the charcoal column, the entire fuel supply can go up in short order (leading to a bad day.)

Well built gravity feds even without an ATC can maintain temps within a few degrees F in the cook chamber. Yes, they really are that controllable.

I dig around tonight and see if I can post some pics here from when I was building my gravity fed. The picture of the naked burn assembly and the framework should make this a lot more clear.

 

[PHolder]

Seems a lot of people regard gravity fed smokers as PFM, so here's the Readers' Digest version.

Imagine a charcoal column with an air tight door at the top. It has a firebox at the bottom, with an air inlet from the outside world, a grate at the bottom of the firebox, with an ash box (and it's airtight door,) below the firebox. The firebox vents into the bottom of the cook chamber, and the smoke travels up through the cook chamber and out through the stack. As the charcoal in the firebox burns, the ashes drop through the grate into the firebox, and the charcoal column above slowly settles thus feeding the fire automatically. The charcoal column, ash door, etc. all have to be air tight, so that the only air getting into the firebox comes through the inlet. The inlet will have a [ball] valve or a blower arrangement for an automatic temperature control. If there's an air leak in the charcoal column, the entire fuel supply can go up in short order (leading to a bad day.)

Well built gravity feds even without an ATC can maintain temps within a few degrees F in the cook chamber. Yes, they really are that controllable.

I dig around tonight and see if I can post some pics here from when I was building my gravity fed. The picture of the naked burn assembly and the framework should make this a lot more clear.

Thank you. I've been able to see how it works. I've just never heard of such a thing until this thread. Amazing and a game changer now that its in the consumer space.

 

[JKalchik]

Thank you. I've been able to see how it works. I've just never heard of such a thing until this thread. Amazing and a game changer now that its in the consumer space.

Gravity fed smokers have been available for several years, but only in the higher end markets. I have something like 3x the price of a Smokerfire EX6 just in steel and sundry parts for my monster. Realizing that a sealed fuel column will work did very much create a new market.

 

[Richard S]

Two things I am shocked have stayed so popular for such a long time-
Hazy IPA’s
Pellet Grills
That is not to say I have never enjoyed a Hazy or a meal from a pellet grill. There is a time and place for both and I understand the convenience of a pellet grill.

I do think that when the “software” of a BBQ becomes the main issue that is a red flag that we have drifted from the reason why we all got into cooking outside in the first place.

The SF seemed like a pretty cool idea and I do not doubt it turns out great cooks. It is just too many bells and whistles for my liking. Weber definitely stepped outside their core competencies. However, can you imagine if there was an internet when Weber introduced their first gas grill?

 

[LKruse]

The SF seemed like a pretty cool idea and I do not doubt it turns out great cooks. It is just too many bells and whistles for my liking. Weber definitely stepped outside their core competencies. However, can you imagine if there was an internet when Weber introduced their first gas grill?

Yes, Weber stepped out of their core competencies but with recent software updates has a fairly stable pellet grill. The Weber software works great for controlling the pit. I rarely use all the bells and whistles of the SmokeFire - don't use cook programs for steaks, briskets, or other meats. I simply measure the temperature with a handheld probe. A super-fast heat up to 500 degrees and I'll throw in a prime New York strip steak for 5-6 minutes each side - love the phenomenal smoke flavor, and retained juiciness the SmokeFire provides. Turn the unit off. Bam, I am now inside enjoying a nice steak with the family. I see that as pure simplicity. For longer cooks - I never had any issues with pellet feed or flame-outs. Overnight smoke at 225 has really turned out some excellent BBQ.

Economically pellet grills are the cheapest to operate - https://cookinpellets.com/fuel-cost...grilling-vs-charcoal-gas-and-electric-grills/

 

[Brian B Atlanta]

Really enjoying this thread so my take their is no all in one grill without making some concessions. Lynn stated he does not use his MB for grilling due to the amount of charcoal it eats, Smokefire people please chime in but it seems pellet consumtion when running direct high heat is basically the same issue and of course if you don't care about the cost of the charcoal or pellets that becomes a non issue although in regards to cost of charcoal where we have a thread on sales for charcoal it appears people will drive for miles to get a deal on charcoal. Maybe not so much anymore with gasoline rising.

Smoke is a very subjective thing and I read all these threads stating pellet grills except for the SF are lacking in smoke. In my home my wife and kids like some smoke but not a lot and since I have a Performer and a UDS I can add or delete chunks to control the amount of smoke. Now I really wish someone I knew in my neighborhood had a Pellet Grill so I could taste some food off of it but I don't nor would anyone I know have a Gravity Feed cooker either by the way. Out of maybe 80 people I know in the neighborhood used to play tennis so its probably more, zero pellet grills, zero gravity feeds, 100 percent have gas grills. But on the charcoal side at least 10% of those people have a WSM for their smokers some the PK. I always ask what they have for cookers when I see them on occasion so its really not a very scientific poll. We have a lot of good barbecue joints here so I think a lot of people could care less about spending 5 hours to do ribs which by the way I only smoke my own have done Brisket but again have not done that for years easier to go to the local joint pay up and if they screw it up thats their problem bring me another order.

Now I have a UDS the ultimate in simplicity built it 10 years ago or maybe longer. I don't have to worry about grease fires since my charcoal basket is 12" in diameter and 6" high no problem for a long cook ribs fill it up halfway always have leftover charcoal. The grate which is stainless sits about 24" above my basket which is why there never is a grease fire as that grease drops down on the charcoal probably does flame up but it will never hit the food but kind of like Weber bars hits the bars supposedly adds flavor or whatever. It is extemely fuel efficient and yes got a Maverick so I do monitor it remotely and there are adjustments for airflow along the way but not much it dials in pretty well for hours.

I said this before awhile ago I thought pellet grills were set it an forget it for some grills that appears to be true I kind of take a bit of an issue if having to check on the SF ever few hours or whatever you need to make sure the pellets are still flowing and not jammed claiming that is not a big deal well that would be a big deal to me.

Software issues on the SF and they bought June so being in the tech busines for 17 years really not sure that was the savior more an admission they could not develp their own or maybe they did not want to but there is a big difference on software for a microwave oven which is in a controlled enviroment in your kitchen then developing software to control the SF and will be curious to see with the new Smart Gas Grills which I assume they will be using their software. You got a controlled environment then you have to develop software for what 5 times the capacity in the SF or the gas grills and then that software has to account for outside temps ranging from 100 degrees to maybe 20 degrees depending where you live and if I read the SF forums correctly you have to account for wind because of the design.

Not bashing any of these grills by the way whether its Gravity feed or SF and Weber made the right decision IMO to go pellet did they execute kind of but they have plenty of Market Research to have led them down the pellet path not sure gravity feed was in their best interest they have plenty of charcoal offerings.

 

[Brian B Atlanta]

Two things I am shocked have stayed so popular for such a long time-
Hazy IPA’s
Pellet Grills
That is not to say I have never enjoyed a Hazy or a meal from a pellet grill. There is a time and place for both and I understand the convenience of a pellet grill.

I do think that when the “software” of a BBQ becomes the main issue that is a red flag that we have drifted from the reason why we all got into cooking outside in the first place.

The SF seemed like a pretty cool idea and I do not doubt it turns out great cooks. It is just too many bells and whistles for my liking. Weber definitely stepped outside their core competencies. However, can you imagine if there was an internet when Weber introduced their first gas grill?

I drink Hazy IPA's my favorite but more of a Josh Cab drinker.

 

[Lynn Dollar]

Lynn stated he does not use his MB for grilling due to the amount of charcoal it eat

Uhhh nope, never said that. I've been grilling on Kettles for a long long time and the MB560 to me, is not needed. I prefer my Kettles, both 22 and 26. The only reason I would grill on the 560 is it does come up to temp , really fast. But I'm a pretty patient fella and not in a hurry.

And there's also the " flare up " or " grease fire " , whatever ya wanna call it, issue. Ya have to start clean for every cook. I prefer to smoke with it, because the grease fire issue goes away at lower temps.

I also think running the thing up to 700* for even small amounts of time is not a good thing. I think that's a quick way to destroy it, its not made from 1/4" steel. Just because it will reach those temps, doesn't mean I should do that.

And its my opinion, that these GF's are far better smokers, than they are grills.

EDIT, yeah, I did say that, but in the context that they burn a lot of charcoal period. They are charcoal hogs. And its one of the minor reasons I don't use it as a grill.

 

[Bruno]

I grill at least once a week on my SmokeFire and it’s pellet use IMO is way less than charcoal in a kettle. I’ve never been one to shut down my vents to use some old charcoal the next day though so maybe that is what others do. The SmokeFire is far from perfect but I use it to both smoke and grill a lot.
Weber as usual has taken care of me on any parts or warranty issues I wanted addressed.
I BBQ because I like to be outside cooking and drinking a beer, the SmokeFire is way better to cook on than gas IMO. Personally for me the smoke flavor is way better than my WSM 22. Good luck!

 

[Lynn Dollar]

The overall question raised by the OP, is did Weber " mess up " with the SmokeFire ? Should they have built a GF ?

If that's not the case ........... then why has Weber put the SmokeFire on sale, not once, but twice now ? It appears to me, they can't sell these without discounting them

I don't think I've ever seen Weber put the WSM or Kettles on sale. I did see an 18 WSM at Home Depot once for half off, but that was Home depot, not Weber.

Maybe the idea was good and its the execution that went awry. But everything is not hunky dory with the SmokeFire.

Meanwhile Masterbuilt and CharGriller are selling a lot of GF units when maybe 18 months ago, most people did not know what a GF was. They've really tapped into a market.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[Bruno]

The overall question raised by the OP, is did Weber " mess up " with the SmokeFire ? Should they have built a GF ?

If that's not the case ........... then why has Weber put the SmokeFire on sale, not once, but twice now ? It appears to me, they can't sell these without discounting them

I don't think I've ever seen Weber put the WSM or Kettles on sale. I did see an 18 WSM at Home Depot once for half off, but that was Home depot, not Weber.

Maybe the idea was good and its the execution that went awry. But everything is not hunky dory with the SmokeFire.

Meanwhile Masterbuilt and CharGriller are selling a lot of GF units when maybe 18 months ago, most people did not know what a GF was. They've really tapped into a market.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

First off they got pellets to sell, secondly I believe that Weber should be doing both pellet and gravity fed.

 

[ChuckH]

The SF seemed like a pretty cool idea and I do not doubt it turns out great cooks. It is just too many bells and whistles for my liking. Weber definitely stepped outside their core competencies. However, can you imagine if there was an internet when Weber introduced their first gas grill?

Exactly. To much focus on bells, whistles, and fluff. Sometimes less is a lot more. WSM, 3 bottom vents, 1 top vent. Easy to use, kicks out great food

 

[Bruno]

Exactly. To much focus on bells, whistles, and fluff. Sometimes less is a lot more. WSM, 3 bottom vents, 1 top vent. Easy to use, kicks out great food

Love bells and whistles,, fluff not so much.
Believe it or not there are a lot of people who want to monitor their grill/smoker from their iPhone. I think the cook programs are silly but to turn off the grill, change temps and monitor up to 4 probes from my phone is awesome.

 

[JKalchik]

dig around tonight and see if I can post some pics here from when I was building my gravity fed. The picture of the naked burn assembly and the framework should make this a lot more clear.

These pictures should help.

The picture of the oddball shaped assembly on the fixture table is the burn assembly. The ash box on the bottom (1/4" plate,) the firebox on top of that (1/2" plate) with the 10" C channel for the flue vent into the cook chamber, and the charcoal column (1/4" plate again,) on top of the firebox. When my neighbor & I lifted that off the fixture table, it was just about all we could do to slow it down before it hit the ground.

The other picture shows the burn assembly mounted in the frame. It's been turned around, so you can see the round air inlet (2".) The ash box door is mounted on the ash box face to the right of the air inlet once I mounted the skins. The frame stock is 2" x 1/8", stuffed with rock wool insulation. The wall cavities are also filled with 2" rock wool batts, and the entire cavity around the firebox is also filled completely with rock wool insulation. The only place that you really can't touch after it's been burning at 225 F for 12 hours is the face around the ash box door for about a foot. When the whole thing was welded up and in use, it's about 1,200 lbs, and will hold about 20 lbs. of charcoal in the feed chute. It burns about 1.5 lbs of charcoal per hour. And there's between 30 and 40 lbs. of MIG wire in it.