Holding BBQ


 
Jeff Boudman said:
I don’t think the 140 rule is as clear cut as people make it out to be.
My mother in law wakes up at 5 am and puts the frozen meat she’s cooking for supper on the counter to thaw out
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Depends on what type of meat you're talking about and how you're going to cook it. You could probably let a pork butt sit on the counter for days if you're planning on smoking it to an internal temp of close to 200F. That butt will be at high enough temperatures to kill food borne pathogens for many hours. When you take it off the smoker that butt will be pathogen-free. Leave it to sit on the counter for two days before you eat it and that's a very different story entirely.

If the meat is something you're not going to cook to at least 165F, then you need to be more careful about the temperatures before cooking. If all of the meat is going to be at 165F for at least a minute, then you've killed all the pathogens that might have gotten in there before cooking.

It should also be noted that guidelines for commercial food preparation are intended to ensure nobody gets sick from eating the food. Home cooks are often not quite so fastidious and somehow still manage to not kill their family members. My mother has substandard food safety practices. When I point out something she's doing that isn't safe she always says, "I haven't killed anyone yet." This has never made me feel any better.
 
I normally work the 3rd and a half shift so I usually get up way before sunrise.
For butts I salt brine the night before and rub while the coals are starting.
My long cooks normally start about 3:30 -4:30 am because I have been bit before time wise and it is easy for me to get out of bed.

I keep a dedicated cooler and 2 towels just for my cooks because the wife insisted on this but it works just fine and I can keep some bbq goodies in that cooler as well.

My cooks always get done early enough and keeping them rested a while has never hurt me.

Kinda funny how us guys seem to be our worst critiques while everyone else is liking it.
 
Good clarification on the “guidelines” Jay, thanks.
I have had several friends in food service and they have made important impacts on me as far as safety concerns. All mostly simple. As you say, they have more careful considerations than home cooks.
 
JayHeyl said:
One thing I learned the hard way is to not be in too much of a hurry to go from smoker to faux cambro. Leave the butts sitting at room temperature until they start to cool a bit. I did two (maybe three?) butts and went straight into the cooler for four or five hours. The cooler was so efficient the butts stayed above 150F the entire time. IOW, they continued to cook. Virtually all the collagen rendered, and, trust me, this is not the good thing it might sound like. Almost all the meat was like mush. It tasted okay but the texture was like baby food.

The thing to remember is there is "resting" and there is "holding". These are different. Resting is when it stops cooking, begins to cool down a bit, and the muscle fibers relax and start to re-absorb some of the juices that were squeezed out. Holding is keeping the rested meat at a safe temperature prior to serving.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about it getting too cold when it's still whole and wrapped. A big piece of meat like that cooked to ~200F is going to stay plenty hot for a long time. I would let it rest at room temp until the internal temp has dropped to 170F or a little less and then move it to whatever you've decided to use for holding.
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Resting and Holding are two different things is a great point, I was kind of mixing the 2 up. Thanks.
 
Dustin Dorsey said:
Active hold is the way to go. I'm absolutely convinced. If the Masterbuilt can hold 150 absolutely do that. I'd verify that with a remote digital thermometer. I almost want to buy a used one to use as a holding oven. What you need to do, though, is let the meat rest before you put it back in at 150. I'd let the meat drop to 170 or 180 at the absolute most before putting it in there. It's almost a necessity on a stick burner if you want to get some sleep. My last brisket I smoked the brisket all day and held it 18 hours in a turkey roaster to serve the next day. I slept like a baby that night. If you are careful you can dial in one of those to hold between 140 and 150 pretty easily. I put a temp probe in it and got it dialed in to where it was cycling constantly above 140.

18 hours might be a bit extreme for pork. Beef fat doesn't oxidize as fast so you can get away with it more. Fat will continue to render (at least to some degree) at 140 to 150 which is a big advantage on a prime brisket.

For a hold anywhere up to 5 hours, the faux cambro (wrapped in towels in a cooler) approach works great but I still am inclined to go with the roaster. For a butt you are going to shred it's not as big a deal, but for a brisket I want the temp around 140 before I slice it.
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If it stops raining this weekend, I'll get a few probes on differnet levels and run it for a few hours, then report back the results.
 
Hi Mike.
Once you've hit your target temp, foil and wrap in old towels and into a cool box. It'll keep warm for hours.
Better to have cooked it early than temp watching coz your guests will be arriving soon. Been there, done that.
And don't try and chase a 20F degrees swing either side of your smoke temp. Won't make any difference.
Very important point. Don't sweat it, enjoy it.
 
Andy Kaminski said:
Kinda funny how us guys seem to be our worst critiques while everyone else is liking it.
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I've commented on this before. Those of us who've sought out this forum are looking for ways to improve our BBQ/grilling, and for many of us this is a continual process. Perfection is our goal but that's not achievable, so we're always searching for what will make it better next time. Most people view cooking as a chore that's required to stay alive, and not much more than that. They approach it with the same enthusiasm they do mopping the floors. If it doesn't literally taste bad, they're happy. Look at some of the highly praised online recipes that combine three canned items with salt and pepper and it's obvious the general standards are extremely low. When you feed people your BBQ, even if you feel you've messed it up pretty bad, it's so far above the average person's standard of "acceptable" that they'll rave about it.

And it's not just BBQ. I remember making baked ziti once for the family and I cooked the ziti too long. To me it was past al dente well on its way to mush, but everyone raved about how good it was. Even my father, from whom no complaint was high praise, said it was good. Not to me, of course, but I did overhear him saying it. So I thought the effort was mediocre at best and everyone else thought it was outstanding.

We're seeking Michelin star quality and everyone we're feeding (competition judges aside) is comparing it to McDonald's. Graciously accept the praise and keep making notes on how to do it better next time.
 
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