Genesis 4/5 Restore


 
Cody it makes sense on an outdoor appliance as well. Especially so on grills with no XOver burner. One burner goes out, then you have gas still leaking into the appliance, with open flame and boom. I am literally surprised the gummint hasn't weighed in on this and mandated it.
I hear you, but it is strange that Weber treated it as a "luxury" feature instead of "safety" feature. It was only put on the Genesis 4 and 5 grills and not on the Genesis 1,2,3 grills. Functionally, there is really no difference between the models which would make it more necessary on one model over another.
 
Rick: Weber seems to have done that with a lot of its older weber models. For instance, many of the Silver B frames cam with the catch for a right side swing table even if the grill didn't come from the factory with a right side table. It allows them to produce one part of the grills that fits and functions on several different models instead of needing to have a different part for every model.

One of the things that really surprises me where Weber didn’t do that in manufacturing, is with the wheels. You’d think the same wheel, design, white insert and sizing across all models of kettles and gassers would be the same.

I hear you, but it is strange that Weber treated it as a "luxury" feature instead of "safety" feature. It was only put on the Genesis 4 and 5 grills and not on the Genesis 1,2,3 grills. Functionally, there is really no difference between the models which would make it more necessary on one model over

Makes me think it was fancy and needed more bells and whistles? And as Mark pointed out in the other thread, $800 in 1991 was a lot of money.

I’d be interested what each item on that receipt was for. Assuming they bought everything at once, the bigger dollar accessory had to be the rotisserie. Then second highest the sideburner? Or vice verse?
 
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Before you give up on that Flame check, here is a link that goes through some trouble shooting for a faulty Flame check, maybe it is not really broke. Bruce, I am still looking for the link to the thermocouple that I got off of amazon.
 
Well back in the old days when Weber was making a better (IMO) product. It would take quite a catastrophic event to knock out all the lit burners in a Genesis. And if one did blow out, the XOver took care of that. So the flame check was a wasteful idea in a way. But now with no XOver in pretty much any gas grill it's a pretty dangerous thing. I.E., I've had a burner blow out on the Wolf. Not know it, gas builds up and you get a pretty good "bang" when it builds up enough. Another reason I want to make some type of XOver system for it
 

Before you give up on that Flame check, here is a link that goes through some trouble shooting for a faulty Flame check, maybe it is not really broke. Bruce, I am still looking for the link to the thermocouple that I got off of amazon.
Rick, I have read that. I guess I am just assuming the one I have has failed to the point it will no longer work, but I will try to fix it after I tear into the grill deeper.
 
Well back in the old days when Weber was making a better (IMO) product. It would take quite a catastrophic event to knock out all the lit burners in a Genesis. And if one did blow out, the XOver took care of that. So the flame check was a wasteful idea in a way. But now with no XOver in pretty much any gas grill it's a pretty dangerous thing. I.E., I've had a burner blow out on the Wolf. Not know it, gas builds up and you get a pretty good "bang" when it builds up enough. Another reason I want to make some type of XOver system for it
It would also make a lot of sense on any NG grill. As it’s fed from a basically unlimited supply of gas
 
Those thermocouples are a PITA in IMHO. The break on everything, gas fireplaces, patio heaters, indoor propane heaters, and of course grills. I have had to disable them on so many devices to get them to work again. Yes you can replace them, but they are just going to fail in a year or so anyway. Just ask yourself why no gas grills made today have them?
 
Joe, you are probably spot on. Just like any device that is subject to direct flame and high heat, it is prone to fail.
For this rehab, however, I would like to get it back to working as it did from the factory if at all possible.
I can understand that, but after trying it, and having to hold that stupid button in until the thermocouple decided it was hot enough, I decide Weber was right and pulled the guts out of the switch. I don't think anyone that buys this from you will want the headache and you may get a call back down the road.
 
Those thermocouples are a PITA in IMHO. The break on everything, gas fireplaces, patio heaters, indoor propane heaters, and of course grills. I have had to disable them on so many devices to get them to work again. Yes you can replace them, but they are just going to fail in a year or so anyway. Just ask yourself why no gas grills made today have them?
What part of the thermocouple fails so that it doesn't work?
 
What part of the thermocouple fails so that it doesn't work?
When a thermocouple fails, the issue typically lies in one or more of the following areas:


1. Wire Degradation:


• The two dissimilar metal wires in the thermocouple can become brittle, corroded, or break over time due to exposure to high temperatures, moisture, or corrosive environments.


2. Oxidation or Corrosion:


• Oxidation on the thermocouple wires or at the junction can prevent the proper electrical signal from being generated. This is especially common in thermocouples used in high-temperature or humid environments.


3. Burnout of the Junction:


• The tip of the thermocouple, where the two wires meet to form the sensing junction, may burn out or melt if exposed to excessive heat beyond its design limit.


4. Loose or Broken Connections:


• The thermocouple wires can become loose or disconnected from the circuit, leading to an open circuit that prevents the thermocouple from generating a voltage.


5. Contamination:


• Impurities from the environment or insulation materials can diffuse into the thermocouple wires, altering their thermoelectric properties and leading to incorrect or no signal.


6. Short Circuit:


• The two wires may accidentally come into contact with each other or with conductive materials, bypassing the sensing junction and rendering the thermocouple ineffective.


7. Signal Interference or Degradation:


• Electrical noise or degradation in the signal path (e.g., due to poor insulation or damaged extension wires) can lead to an unreliable or incorrect signal.





Diagnosing the failure often involves checking for continuity (using a multimeter), inspecting for visible damage, and verifying the thermocouple’s response to temperature changes.
 
Just to clarify --- its more than a 'thermocouple' --- they are 'thermopiles' that are many thermocouples connected in parallel to multiply the voltage into the XXX milivolt range so that it can run a solenoid coil. They should be pretty robust unless subjected to an extreme temperature or mechanically damaged.

Side story --- I was having troubles with my gas fireplace going out sporadically - called in a service tech - replaced thermopile and it worked for quite a while..... until it started going out again some time later..... I have a light switch for turning on the fireplace --- I happened to notice - by complete happenstance - that the fireplace would kickoff if I wiggled the light switch --- turns out the light switch housing/frame was cracked and as the fireplace warmed the room it would expand enough to open the crack up and open the circuit.
So I guess the takeaway here is to not just 'blame the thermopile' and check out everything in the circuit --- thermopiles have an incredibly low failure rate in gas water heaters and unless Weber sourced really crappy ones, it probably okay. It is easy enough to check with a volt meter and a lighter to see if its making a mV voltage.
 
And I will request to please post pictures of this 'flame check' feature as you go for those of us who have never run across one. All I have seen/know about them is the button....
 
I've never had one fail. Even the one in my Wolf when I had an issue with the valve, it turned out not to be the thermocouple but a little trip arm that was stuck inside the valve. Took it apart and it's still working to this day good as new. And my Wolf is pretty darn old IIRC from the mid 90s
 
Nice find Bruce. I bet the Original Owner was even more broken up than you about the shattered glass door. Looks just like the one I picked up in 2016.


I bought it with the hopes of restoring it and gifting it to my Brother but he has since retired and moved to Florida (Lucky Bastard) from Massachusetts so it sits apart in pieces in my Cellar with the hopes of one day being completed.

Jeff
 
Quick update. Supposedly it is 46 outside.....Sure doesn't seem that warm. But I went out in the garage and removed all the wood shelves from the grill and took them apart. I have determined that I will be re-using all the wood. I think a light sanding is all that is required. I am amazed that it was not in worse condition after 35 years. The Z bars and other shelf hardware is mostly rust free with just a little surface rust on some parts. Simple sanding and repainting them is all that will be required. I bought a quart of Behr deck stain that I had color matched, so I am ready to go, but unless I get lucky or I figure out a way to do it indoors without upsetting everyone, it might have to wait until spring along with the rest of the grill....but it would be nice to do the shelves this winter and have them ready to go in the spring.

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