Gas Tires Oil...Meet "The Judge" My crazy Sunbeam MUSCLE GRILL!!!!


 
Bruce said:
Jon, your patience and attention to detail amaze me. That is a great restore. i don't think i would have undertaken it however. Is it going to be a flip or another collectible?
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Bruce,
I actually had thought that if this restore/mod worked out this could be a replacement for my Q as a “lunch” grill. I loaned out my Q on a long term basis, so it would be nice to have a small grill to use myself. At the same time, I am having to face the reality that I can’t have a collection of grills as sprawling as my wacky imagination comes up with. My wife is probably right that there are few good reasons why I need so many grills of my own.

On the other hand, at least until I use it for a while, I would be very leary of selling this thing since it is kind of experimental. I certainly don’t want a lawsuit or angry person coming back to me because the firebox melted or started a fire:eek:! But if I use it and then want to sell later, that means another major cleaning and possibly painting. Even in spotless condition like it is now (in my home office and clean enough that even my wife hasn’t complained), I really don’t know if anyone would pay that much for an oddity like this Sunbeam.

Does anybody think it is worth anything to anybody but a nut like me?
 
I'm certainly not a lawyer but if I was going to sell it I would give full discloser in the ad about all the mods you did to it and state sold as is. Even though that probably wouldn't protect you for liability if something went south.
Me I wouldn't take the risk of selling it. Could be an accident looking for a place to happen.
Also you did an outstanding job creating "the Judge" nice work.
 
We live in such a litigious society these days that I think Rich is right and it would be really risky to sell it.

Do any of you that flip grills worry about lawsuits? I know you aren't doing extensive modifications like Jon did on " the judge" but I would think there would.still be some small risk?
 
Greg M said:
We live in such a litigious society these days that I think Rich is right and it would be really risky to sell it.

Do any of you that flip grills worry about lawsuits? I know you aren't doing extensive modifications like Jon did on " the judge" but I would think there would.still be some small risk?
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I haven't flipped near as many as Jon, Bruce and others. I've only had one issue, I sold a silver B to a young couple that had just bought their first home and wanted a good grill at a reasonable price.
Well they took it home and about 6pm I got a call from the guy who bought it who was upset that it would not light. They lived nearby so I went over to their house and the guy was ranting about how I sold him a defective product.
I walked over to the grill lifted the lid opened the burner valve and no smell of propane. I shut the valve off reached down and opened the tank valve. I opened the burner valve and hit the starter button and amazingly the burner lit.
The look on the guys face was priceless.
 
Jon, here is what you need to do:
1) Take your smartphone and put it on movie setting
2) Turn the Sunbeam grill all the way up on High
3) Post the video here so we can watch it melt
😜😂🤪
 
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Shakedown Cruise

Well, after thinking about my options I decided the next thing to do was to try out "The Judge" on a preliminary basis. When I posted about getting this thing and my ideas, I said if nothing worked out I would hang my head and sing the song by The Who: "Won't Get Fooled Again!" Well, it HAS worked out so far, so another song from that era came to mind: Jay Ferguson's "Shakedown Cruise."

It was thirty days around the horn
The captain says it's a thirty-five more
The moon looks mean and the crew ain't staying
"There's gonna be some blood" is what they're all saying

It's a shakedown cruise (Shakedown, shakedown cruise)
And I was just another fool (Shakedown, shakedown cruise)
There ain't no easy way out (Shakedown, shakedown cruise)

So, I decided to hook up the propane tank and hit the accelerator and see what she was made of. The Broilmaster burner that I shoehorned into the firebox lit right up. To my surprise, even after an hour-long burn-in the newly installed hood thermometer topped out at a very nice 500 degrees. Internal temps on the grates varied but were mostly in the mid to high 600's. Plenty hot enough to grill and sear, but not at all terrifying. I was especially happy to find that the firebox had no extreme hot spots, particularly where the burner is very close to the firebox metal.

I plan to try another run or two to gain confidence and make sure I don't observe any issues. Then, if everything is OK, maybe I will try to score points with my wife and satisfy my own curiosity by listing it at a fairly high price just to see what happens. I won't give it away. However, in the end, while it really is a cool little grill, if I am going to be constrained to maybe three gas grills:(, my Skyline, Platinum and Genesis 1.5 project all would be better choices to have around. We will see...

One concern from my first test, though, is that there was more yellow than blue in the burner flames. This was true at both full throttle as well as turned down low. I did note that it was able to sustain a flame all the way across even at the lowest setting, however. I have read Larry comment more than once to not make such a big deal about yellow "tips," but I am not sure if this qualifies or points to a need for some kind of adjustment:

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p.s. I am getting more ceramic tiles to be sure to completely cover the burner. I love Amazon points!

Here is short video clip for those of you who might have recommendations:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AttawcuNb2LsiY8hpfuNzy8YVRZpFA

What is your take, Larry?
 
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Jon, my Broilmaster P3 has eight round holes in the bottom all spread out. I think they are about one inch in diameter, but not sure. Maybe it needs air.
 
Chris,

That is true, and I hadn't thought about that. It does have two long holes on the bottom plus the drain holes, but maybe they aren't enough.

zg8O0pA.jpg


It is a SMALL firebox, so there is a lot less air down there then in a Broilmaster firebox, model 4 or 3.
 
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Are there any shutters That can be adjusted on the burners like there are on Weber grills?
 
Chris in GA said:
Jon, my Broilmaster P3 has eight round holes in the bottom all spread out. I think they are about one inch in diameter, but not sure. Maybe it needs air.
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The air needed for combustion would not come from holes in the fire box. Actually the fire box could be completely sealed since all the need for combustion air is from the venturi in each burner pipe. The holes are typically there for a couple different reasons (beside grease drainage). Mostly simple ventilation to prevent over heating and also to provide "strain" relief (expansion and contraction) as the box heats and cools.

So now on to the question at hand: Is the combustion OK on this "frankengrill"? I would have to give it a qualified yes looking at photos and video. One thing is that the BM burner is not top ported but ported so the flames come out under a little "ridge". Broilmaster's theory on this is that the ridge theoretically shields the ports from juices falling down there and contaminating the ports. One side effect of this is it slightly cools the flame and alters combustion temp slightly which will cause that slight yellow effect.
That said I might still look slightly at opening the shutters slightly to allow just a touch more air BUT really those flames look quite decent to my eyes. They're nice and steady and continuous. So I would open the shutters a bit and if you see the flames begin to "break" or not hold steady put them back, if they burn a touch more blue I would call it a day. Looks to me like it works quite nicely
 
Bruce said:
Have you tried messing with the adjustment on those shutters?
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Bruce,
Not yet. I think I will try as Larry suggests and make just a very small adjustment and see if it gets better or worse. Otherwise, I am not going to change anything else. It was kind of "cool" (in a muscle car way) to think of this thing as having more power than it could really handle. However, I am actually very glad that it has worked out to instead function very well within realistic and safe limits. While I really would prefer to keep it, I am much less afraid of selling it now, should I decide to do so.

Larry,
Thanks for the advice!
 
Jon Tofte said:
So, I asked my younger son who knows EVERYTHING about Marvel and DC Superheroes but not much about cars this question: "What is a muscle car?"

His reply was, "Yeah, like a Corvette..." I said, "Well, not exactly. That is more of a sport car. What happens when you take a big engine from a big heavy car and wedge it inside a smaller car?"

"It will go fast!" RIGHT!!! I then told him that was what I was trying to do with this little grill.
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I just found something that made me think about your Muscle car theme. I got some literature, a folder from when my brother bought his Weber, and a little recipe book featuring the Sunbeam Grillmaster and Bobby Flay.

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75 cents at Menards

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Now, enjoy reading this:
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Cheers!
Gerry
 
Gerry,
That is pretty cool! That Sunbeam looks like they were trying to be more substantial and compete with Weber. It appears much larger than my little grill. They copied the Weber "look" down to the tray tables and even the slope of the front of the lid:rolleyes:!
 
That's better!

OK, so I tried Larry's advice (also in the direction Bruce was pointing). I opened the shutters on both halves of the burner a little bit, put it back together and fired her up again. Good results, I think:

5zu9h00.jpg


https://1drv.ms/v/s!AttawcuNb2LsiY8l3WvcrHDrQdfDCg

Flames look to be a nice blue. Hood temp (without grates or the ceramic tiles) quickly reached 550, where it seemed to level out. The only problem I noticed is that the inner burner holes on the one side of the burner did not ignite from the starter, and even after the rest was lit for a while stayed off. I carefully tried manually lighting the inside with a long lighter and they came on with no big swoosh. Just lit up.

I think that Larry's observation that the orifice settings may not be able to fully keep up with this larger burner are probably correct. Still, once it IS all lit, it seems to put out quite adequate and nicely distributed heat. The flame pattern gives much better coverage than the Sunbeam oval burner that came with this grill. (You can still get one of those for not an outrageous price, but they are very thin, cheap grade stainless. Not likely to last.)

Some more adjusting is probably needed. This time looking at the gas collector around the igniter. Maybe I can help it catch more of the inside edge of the burner. Or, I just may need to give it a few more seconds before popping the igniter so that the burner is truly full and distributing propane more evenly. Obviously, need to be CAREFUL about that idea!

Maybe opening up the orifices is what is needed. I have zero experience with that, so any advice would be gratefully received.
 
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I would call that successful. Yes some of the holes not lighting off and then the big whoosh is indicative of the burner not filling completely with gas. I would think opening the orifices maybe a couple .x0000th of an inch might be just the ticket and not raise heat output much if at all or mess with the shutter (mixture) adjustment. It would just allow slightly more gas flow to properly fill the burner and get it to light off and maintain properly
 
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