Jon Tofte
TVWBB Olympian
Larry,
To open the orifice, do I just find a drill bit ever so slightly bigger than the current opening and drill it out?
Gas Tires Oil...Meet "The Judge" My crazy Sunbeam MUSCLE GRILL!!!!
- Thread starter Jon Tofte
- Start date
Larry,
To open the orifice, do I just find a drill bit ever so slightly bigger than the current opening and drill it out?
LMichaels
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Yep that's the ticket. I would get a small set of "numeric" drill bits. Then simply find the largest bit that will fit in the orifice (without forcing it in) and use the shank end for this not the twist end. Many times too the orifice is actually stamped with the size it is. Simply select the next size up and open it right up. I do not use a handheld power drill for this. I typically use a hand chuck (modelers use these a lot) and carefully drill it.
Jon Tofte
TVWBB Olympian
Larry,
I was able to remove both of the orifices from The Judge. These are the original Sunbeam ones. They have the marking "63" on them. I actually still had an old Broilmaster manifold. I held out the faint hope that maybe I could just swap the orifices, but they are different in design. Still, you can clearly see that the opening in the Broilmaster orifice is significantly larger. Since both grills use two orifices, it would seem to me that I need to drill out the Sunbeam ones to the same size as the old Broilmaster orifices.
I would think this will have a significant effect on the fuel flow to the burner. Since my earlier post, I experimented some more and found that if I waited a few seconds before igniting the burner as it is now, there was a bigger flash from both the inside and outside parts of both halves of the burner, but then the whole thing would go out. This seems to me to confirm that the current fuel supply is inadequate for the larger Broilmaster burner, just as you thought. As the gas gets out it is enough to fuel a "flash" but there is not enough flow to keep it going. If you start it sooner, it is more likely to stay lit but often the whole burner does not completely ignite as I reported earlier. This, too, seems to fit with inadequate gas flow.
I don't have drill bits of this very small size, so I plan to see if I can find a set to use.
I was able to remove both of the orifices from The Judge. These are the original Sunbeam ones. They have the marking "63" on them. I actually still had an old Broilmaster manifold. I held out the faint hope that maybe I could just swap the orifices, but they are different in design. Still, you can clearly see that the opening in the Broilmaster orifice is significantly larger. Since both grills use two orifices, it would seem to me that I need to drill out the Sunbeam ones to the same size as the old Broilmaster orifices.
I would think this will have a significant effect on the fuel flow to the burner. Since my earlier post, I experimented some more and found that if I waited a few seconds before igniting the burner as it is now, there was a bigger flash from both the inside and outside parts of both halves of the burner, but then the whole thing would go out. This seems to me to confirm that the current fuel supply is inadequate for the larger Broilmaster burner, just as you thought. As the gas gets out it is enough to fuel a "flash" but there is not enough flow to keep it going. If you start it sooner, it is more likely to stay lit but often the whole burner does not completely ignite as I reported earlier. This, too, seems to fit with inadequate gas flow.
I don't have drill bits of this very small size, so I plan to see if I can find a set to use.
LMichaels
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I am pretty sure 63 refers to the drill/ream size If you follow this https://7id.xray.aps.anl.gov/tables/number_drill.html chart you will see the 63 refers to .037 size bit. Looks about right to me. So you might need to try a #60 but, again I would do the shank size test. Remember you can always go larger but never smaller
Chris in GA
TVWBB Pro
I was thinking to measure a Broilmaster P4 bottom dimensions length and width if one is available and compare with the Sunbeam inside bottom dimensions, since the burner that is used is for the BM and see how far it is from the inside wall to the burner edge.
Jon Tofte
TVWBB Olympian
Chris,
The burner I used in my Sunbeam grill is the smaller P4 burner. (As mentioned previously, they are now also using this burner on the larger P3 grill, although you can sometimes find an old stock larger burner if you search enough.)
On the Broilmaster P4 firebox, there is plenty of room around the burner. It is a good bit larger than this tiny Sunbeam firebox. On my Sunbeam, it just barely wedges in there as you can see from my earlier pictures. The outer edges of the burner rub up against vertical metal ridges that are there to hold up the lower grate. My big concern in this is that the flame would be so close to the wall of the firebox that there would be potential for the aluminum to overheat and even melt.
I am working on getting drill bits/help to bore out my Sunbeam orifices to something similar (not larger) than the ones that Broilmaster uses. It will probably be a whole new ballgame and maybe the "muscle grill" I originally thought. It will be very interesting to see what happens and if this idea can be done safely.
Larry was totally right about the Sunbeam orifices not being sufficient to properly fill and use with the Broilmaster burner. The Sunbeam burner was much narrower and smaller all around.
Chris in GA
TVWBB Pro
Oh ok understand. Cool.
Jon Tofte
TVWBB Olympian
Oh boy, she’s a GTO now!
Many thanks to Larry for his sage advice on things this CPA doesn’t know much about such as propane fuel flow. In a previous thread I compared the Sunbeam LP gas orifice openings with those of the Broilmaster. After seeing the difference, it was easy to see why the Broilmaster burner I installed in my little Sunbeam wouldn’t light properly and produced a small flame with missing sections. As Larry noted right off the bat, the larger burner needed larger openings to allow adequate fuel flow. While it was nice in some ways that “The Judge” wasn’t running super hot, it was kind of disappointing, and much more ominously, it was scary to light given that sometimes the flame would go out while fuel was still coming out.
My maintenance director is an old tool and die guy. A while back, our organization received the opportunity for a bargain purchase of a whole tool shed of classic tool and die equipment, so he was able to come up with exactly what was needed to enlarge the Sunbeam orifices to the size of the Broilmaster ones. I put it all back together and the results were pretty dramatic. The burner now cranks like in a Broilmaster grill:
So now I really do have the “muscle grill” I theorized about. I plan to do another shakedown cruise and see how hot the firebox gets after a half hour and an hour. I have a feeling this grill will, in fact, take careful, responsibile use
. At least it lights up readily and consistently now !
Many thanks to Larry for his sage advice on things this CPA doesn’t know much about such as propane fuel flow. In a previous thread I compared the Sunbeam LP gas orifice openings with those of the Broilmaster. After seeing the difference, it was easy to see why the Broilmaster burner I installed in my little Sunbeam wouldn’t light properly and produced a small flame with missing sections. As Larry noted right off the bat, the larger burner needed larger openings to allow adequate fuel flow. While it was nice in some ways that “The Judge” wasn’t running super hot, it was kind of disappointing, and much more ominously, it was scary to light given that sometimes the flame would go out while fuel was still coming out.
My maintenance director is an old tool and die guy. A while back, our organization received the opportunity for a bargain purchase of a whole tool shed of classic tool and die equipment, so he was able to come up with exactly what was needed to enlarge the Sunbeam orifices to the size of the Broilmaster ones. I put it all back together and the results were pretty dramatic. The burner now cranks like in a Broilmaster grill:
So now I really do have the “muscle grill” I theorized about. I plan to do another shakedown cruise and see how hot the firebox gets after a half hour and an hour. I have a feeling this grill will, in fact, take careful, responsibile use
. At least it lights up readily and consistently now !
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Dave in KC
TVWBB Wizard
Some good old fashioned schooling going on in this thread.