Drilled through my cook box to install drip pan rails!!!


 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Hello all.......hope everyone is doing well. It is freezing cold here in Va but I am still slowly.....very slowly making progress on an old school red top....I am terrible with model names and numbers......this thing is oldddddddd so I will call it a Genesis 5 bar with split bottom grid shelf if that helps u identify it.....by shelf I mean down by the wheels.
Anyway I bought this grill for $15 as I recall because I saw the RCplane sp? grates on it in the ad.......I couldnt get their fast enough :) .....In the end I decided to resto the grill but keep the grates for myself. Now the problem was that the drip trey rails were a mess.....one stud was broken off completely and the other three just had rusted nubs where the screw heads used to be. Now I have had close to zero luck drilling out any hardened steel bolt or screw and I have battles several on these Webers. I end up breaking drill bits and then u cant drill through a broken drill bit. So this is what I have done so far with this cook box. I took my grinder and just grinded right through the rusted screw and took the mounting stud down more and more until the remains of the mounting screw were no longer visible. So basically I removed about half of each stud....and the last stud was completely broken off anyway. So now I was only battling aluminum which I drilled through easily. I drilled each stud all the way through the cook box. My plan is to just insert a bolt through the cook box and extend through a spacer that I will fabricate to the correct stud height.....and then attach the rails with a nut. I will have to grind a little angle on both inside and outside for nice clean fit but that will be no problem. My thought is that a grill is not a air tight sealed system...I mean the drip trey itself is 1/2 " hanging below the cook box......so certainly drilling through the cook box will have zero effect on the machine. I think it will be much stronger in the end.

Has anyone had success drilling out cook box screws or the frame bolt???? If so please tell me your method. I have seen Bruch use the punch out technique on the frame bolt which I have tried w no success ( yet ) ....just gotta get the balls to hit it harder.

Has anyone else drilled out their cook box studs like I did with this one?

I will follow with pics soon
 

Jon Tofte

TVWBB Olympian
I think your repair is probable the best you could do under the circumstances, and pretty creative. As long as the grease tray will still slide in and out without issues, you should be good to go. Sorry you had to go through so much. Hey, these old Genny's are getting scarcer every day, so it is great thing to save some from the landfill. With the new Genesis coming out, they are now at least 4 generations from current. I think we will all have to do more improvising as time goes by, since the supply of parts - and even donor grills - is going to continue to dwindle down.
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Yes sir.....I am finding on the the real old schoolers I need two to make one good one. I dont mind the process.....it gives me a bit of a challenge to make a solid repair. When finished the studs will be the exact same height as before via my spacers and the trey will slide like " butta " :)
 

Ed P

TVWBB Emerald Member
Has anyone had success drilling out cook box screws or the frame bolt???? If so please tell me your method. I have seen Bruch use the punch out technique on the frame bolt which I have tried w no success ( yet ) ....just gotta get the balls to hit it harder.
I've done a couple of cookboxes, but removing broken screws was part of my job duties while I was working. The key is to file the broken screw flat and center punch it so as to get the drill started as close to the center of the screw as you possibly can. You only get one shot so make it a good one. If you get it too far off center you are screwed. Using a center drill can be helpful for some, but I usually use smaller drill and drill at an angle as needed to get the hole started in the center. As you can see in the picture, the hole drilled in the lower left corner almost got away from me. It happens. Find out the pilot drill for the screw that you want to use as a replacement and go up a drill size or two to make it easier to screw in the replacement.
 

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THyde

TVWBB Wizard
Jim I learned about the difference between stainless steel and aluminum drilling manifold bolts out of a Silver B some years back. I ended up hogging out the holes and using giant washers in there. Didn't affect the performance one bit. That said, I was more careful with the 2000 and the two 1000's I've done since then. It's just patience, which I am slowly acquiring.
 

Bruce

TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
The drip rail screws are really too small to drill out. You probably have as good a solution as possible. If you want to drill out the mounting screw on the left side, file it flat and center punch it like Ed suggests, but I would start the drilling with a Centering bit. They are much easier to control than a drill bit to start the hole. Then switch to a regular drill bit and make sure you stay centered. I use a 1/8" bit to drill first and then step up to a larger bit.

These are the centering bits I use. I see they are no longer available on Amazon, but they likely have other choices for them.

 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Thanks guys........I have restored two boats and have drilled out many many screws and bolts but I find these hardened through many heat cycles bolts and screws to be quite the challenge. I do use a center punch.....and I have even invested in some decent quality Milwaukie drill bits as my Dewalt and others tend to break and ruin my day. I always try to start with the smallest yet not so small that it is fragile and will snap immediately......but a small drill bit then step my way up. With many attempts its either hard to get a drill bit to bite into the hardened screw.....or if I am making some progress the bit finally catches on a hard dig then snaps. What drill bits are u guys using besides the center bit...I assume the center bit is just to get u started. Also are u using a drill press or just a portable drill like I am using?
Bpratt....ha....ya that would have been even easier huh.....for some reason I wanted to use the existing locations of the stand off's but it really makes no difference...good point.
I already have this box cleaned and painted....it looks great. So i just need to get over this small hurdle and finish the race. I dont want to hand in my man card but I really have had my butt handed to me by some of these bolts and screws.
 

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JimV

TVWBB Pro
Well...I have never owned " center bits " other than a cheap black and decker easy out set. I just popped on Amazon and ordered a decent set.....maybe that will save a few drill bits for me and give me a few more wins so I can hold on to my man card!
 

Ed P

TVWBB Emerald Member
Well...I have never owned " center bits " other than a cheap black and decker easy out set. I just popped on Amazon and ordered a decent set.....maybe that will save a few drill bits for me and give me a few more wins so I can hold on to my man card!
Get some cutting oil, Jim, and keep the RPMs down on the drill. You can work-harden the screws if you get them too hot. Sometimes you have to re-sharpen the drill bit as you go, not easy if you haven't done it before, especially with a small drill bit..just toss those out and buy another. Center drills are hard to spot when they're in the center of the broken screw, at least for these old eyes, and I like to flex a drill bit (drill at an angle with pressure) to get it on center.

I have hundreds of Chicago-Latrobe drill bits from nearly 50 years in the trade so it's easier for me just to toss the little ones in the trash. I buy the Ryobi sets when they go on sale for less than $10, too. Being able to sharpen a drill bit by hand is a valuable skill that is well worth learning.

EDIT: One last bit of advice...use enough pressure to make the drill bit "bite"...in other words, do not let the drill bit just spin and produce heat and friction, especially with stainless. Low RPM, firm pressure, cutting oil to keep the drill bit cool.
 
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JimV

TVWBB Pro
Thanks for the great advice guys......I cant wait to get my center bits and give them a shot. Ed I will follow your advice to a T....I look forward to more success then failure in the near future.
Well the weather gave me one evening of mid 40's and that was all I needed to suit up and get my butt out in the garage. I usually do my grill tinkering in a large warehouse that I am fortunate to have access to....and all of my tools are there. So dont judge when u see my pics of some rough hardware customization :) . Anyway I bought a metal conduit pipe I dont know the size....maybe 1/2" ? It fit perfectly over the remaining drip rail nubs that I left in place....as u recall I grinded them down to just nubs so I didnt have to drill through the existing screws that were fused in place. I cut 4 little 1" pieces of pipe that would be my new stand off's for the drip rails. That part of the cook box has a pretty sharp angle so I put the piece in the vice and just used my hand held grinder to grind a sharp angle in the pipe piece. Once I got one to fit correctly I just copied it 3 more times. Then I used 1 1/2 inch stainless bolts accompanied with washers, and nuts to secure the drip rails through the cook box. Hot dang it worked like a champ! These rails are strong like donkey kong! Now all I have to do is drill out the frame rail bolt with my new center bits and ole red will be re born. See pics ......see the before pics above so u can see the little nubs that the pipe parts are sitting over.
 

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Bruce

TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I like it. Very good fab job. I was going to suggest SS bolts and nuts in my last post but forgot. I am glad you got the stainless.

I may have to copy your idea at some point. But I usually have extra cook boxes if I get a bad one.

Keep us posted on the frame bolt extraction.
 

Ed P

TVWBB Emerald Member
@JimV , the reason I ended up with so many drill bits is because they are considered to be a consumable by my employers, and when one would get even a little bit dull I would toss it in a drawer and get a new one. I learned how to sharpen bits at home, on my own time, because for the amount of money they were paying us it was cheaper just to give us a new bit.

The heat from drilling is carried away by the chips, so if you are not making chips the heat has nowhere to go. An important part to get right in sharpening is getting the point of the drill in the center, because if you don't the bit will drift to one side or the other as you are drilling. I found an inexpensive tool that helps with that. TMI, I know.

Great job on drilling through and problem-solving! That cookbox is almost ready for another 20 or 30 years of service! One thing I've found is that when you drill through the core of a bolt, it relieves some of the tension on the outer diameter and makes it eadier to extract...either that, or the bolt just knows when it's met its match and goes along peacefully...
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Ha!!! Ya I know what u mean by a bolt finally giving up....thats my favorite part! I am guilty of spinning a bit that wasnt biting " enough " ....I know to not spin a bit thats not biting at all. I have a similar situation to you regarding drill bits.....I have a company card and I can buy any tools I need for work. I am not bashful buying new drill bits and I literally have about 30 sets of various MFR bits. I focused on the Milwaukie Titanium bits for a while but as of recent I have been researching on line bits that are much more expensive and higher quality. I am getting close to breaking the code.....I believe in the right tool for the job. I hear you loud and clear about sharpening bits which I have not learned...but would love to. I am very happy with the outcome of my little modification. If I was in my shop I would have used my bench grinder for a much cleaner piece but hey....nobody is lookin under a cook box except us. I would also have made little angled washers for the inside bolt head to seal perfectly. I got to thinking that sealing these holes right next to the huge opening of the bottom of the cook box just wouldnt make that much sense. That said I dont want these screw holes to leak but if they did I think the leak would end up in the grease trey.
Amazom center bits are in the mail....I will report back.
Thanks
 

Bruce

TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
You could always seal them with some Hi-Temp JB Weld, but I am with you, there won't be a big enough gap for leaking to be an issue.
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Thanks guys........good point on the auto seal.......just needs a little carbon and some bacon grease! Ed u have peaked my interest regarding sharpening bits. I go to YouTube University ...I am on the 6year plan....but I will study up.
 

Roy-Parallax

TVWBB Pro
Hello all.......hope everyone is doing well. It is freezing cold here in Va but I am still slowly.....very slowly making progress on an old school red top....I am terrible with model names and numbers......this thing is oldddddddd so I will call it a Genesis 5 bar with split bottom grid shelf if that helps u identify it.....by shelf I mean down by the wheels.
Anyway I bought this grill for $15 as I recall because I saw the RCplane sp? grates on it in the ad.......I couldnt get their fast enough :) .....In the end I decided to resto the grill but keep the grates for myself. Now the problem was that the drip trey rails were a mess.....one stud was broken off completely and the other three just had rusted nubs where the screw heads used to be. Now I have had close to zero luck drilling out any hardened steel bolt or screw and I have battles several on these Webers. I end up breaking drill bits and then u cant drill through a broken drill bit. So this is what I have done so far with this cook box. I took my grinder and just grinded right through the rusted screw and took the mounting stud down more and more until the remains of the mounting screw were no longer visible. So basically I removed about half of each stud....and the last stud was completely broken off anyway. So now I was only battling aluminum which I drilled through easily. I drilled each stud all the way through the cook box. My plan is to just insert a bolt through the cook box and extend through a spacer that I will fabricate to the correct stud height.....and then attach the rails with a nut. I will have to grind a little angle on both inside and outside for nice clean fit but that will be no problem. My thought is that a grill is not a air tight sealed system...I mean the drip trey itself is 1/2 " hanging below the cook box......so certainly drilling through the cook box will have zero effect on the machine. I think it will be much stronger in the end.

Has anyone had success drilling out cook box screws or the frame bolt???? If so please tell me your method. I have seen Bruch use the punch out technique on the frame bolt which I have tried w no success ( yet ) ....just gotta get the balls to hit it harder.

Has anyone else drilled out their cook box studs like I did with this one?

I will follow with pics soon
How did you identify Dave's grates from the ad photo?
 

Joe Anshien

TVWBB Gold Member
Thanks for the great advice guys......I cant wait to get my center bits and give them a shot. Ed I will follow your advice to a T....I look forward to more success then failure in the near future.
Well the weather gave me one evening of mid 40's and that was all I needed to suit up and get my butt out in the garage. I usually do my grill tinkering in a large warehouse that I am fortunate to have access to....and all of my tools are there. So dont judge when u see my pics of some rough hardware customization :) . Anyway I bought a metal conduit pipe I dont know the size....maybe 1/2" ? It fit perfectly over the remaining drip rail nubs that I left in place....as u recall I grinded them down to just nubs so I didnt have to drill through the existing screws that were fused in place. I cut 4 little 1" pieces of pipe that would be my new stand off's for the drip rails. That part of the cook box has a pretty sharp angle so I put the piece in the vice and just used my hand held grinder to grind a sharp angle in the pipe piece. Once I got one to fit correctly I just copied it 3 more times. Then I used 1 1/2 inch stainless bolts accompanied with washers, and nuts to secure the drip rails through the cook box. Hot dang it worked like a champ! These rails are strong like donkey kong! Now all I have to do is drill out the frame rail bolt with my new center bits and ole red will be re born. See pics ......see the before pics above so u can see the little nubs that the pipe parts are sitting over.
Very nice work. Most of the time I find the screw breaks off a portion of the mount I just use some jbweld high heat putty and screw the new bracket into the putty holding the rail and let it sit of a day or 2. Your way looks more robust.
 

JimV

TVWBB Pro
Ok...let me answer the questions........
1. I could tell it was RCplane grates in the pics of the grill ad because they are as thick as hot dogs.....I am fortunate enough to have a set on my keeper grill and I love them.
2. Thanks Ed for the video....if I am being honest.....that guy is a genius and I am far from it....but I will tinker around with some dull bits for the heck of it.
3. Thanks Joe.....yes there is no doubt that my repair ( not bragging ) :) is stout and will not fail under any circumstances. If the screws can be drilled out that would be my first option....but this grill is soooo old I had one post completely broken off and the rail screws were fused in place......So this was my best option.
 

 

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